Role of women in world's major religions and why?

Re: Role of women in world's major religions and why?

So the topic has diverted again onto lets guess hijab nope 4 wives yes of course as per usual the same old boring slanders ok ok.

Men are allowed more than one wife in islam hmmmm whats wrong with that, ok so are they debating the issue based on hukm shariah nope using thier own person opinion fine seeing as thats the basis it is funny really these non muslims in particular the men try and debate this topic while on the other hand they cheating on their wives with 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 etc mistresses :)

Re: Role of women in world’s major religions and why?

I am not cheating with a mistress. :confused:

Re: Role of women in world’s major religions and why?

Are you sure that you have opposed me in your reply?

If you find your own post (Points 1 to 7) very fair towards women I can only admire your approach to your religion.

Thanks

Re: Role of women in world’s major religions and why?

Deedawar,

The views on married female inhertiance is not different from what the French Philospoher Roge or the English Muslim said.

But you omitted the point - Are inhertiance laws only applied to females who are married? :rolleyes:

The Quran says

  • Allah chargeth you concerning your children—to the male a portion equivalent to that of two females" (Chapter 4: 11).*

    Note : The world children your children?????
    

    The same concept is applied to the brothers and sisters of a deceased person. The Qur’an says*If there be brethren - men and women - unto the male, the equivalent of the portion of two females" (Surah 4: 176).*These are acknowledged by all the Muslim scholars without exception.

So now please answer this

Even if the sister is still single, why should her brother receive double her portion from the inheritance and have control over her expenditures? He may spend the money on his own pleasures while his sister could be wiser (which normally always is) and more prudent than her brother, who may be younger than she. These situations happen daily in Arab and Islamic countries. Any man takes twice what his sister receives. The only reason for it is the inequality between females and males. Why does this happen?

Al-Mawdudi tells us it is because this is one of the decisive Islamic laws based on an indisputable Qur’anic verse in the Chapter of Women. This is the inequality of unfair Islamic law.

Or

Is it not possible that the sister may be married to a poor man and have many children, while her brother may be a rich businessman or single without responsibilities?

You selectively applied your logic only to married women and to the divorce thereafter. Please also include the non married ones also. Where are they in your reply I am still thinking .

Re: Role of women in world's major religions and why?

Fire and Water, a man is supposed to spend on his family, whereas a woman does not have to. Whatever share of inheritence she receives is hers to keep or spend as she desires. However, for a man, he must spend on his family.

Even if two (or more) siblings lose their parents, I'm sure it'll be the brother responsible for looking after his sisters and most likely not the sisters. Therefore, I'm sure the sisters would still be able to keep their inheritence, whereas the brother(s) would have to look after their sisters.

Re: Role of women in world's major religions and why?

Even if the sister is still single, why should her brother receive double her portion from the inheritance and have control over her expenditures? He may spend the money on his own pleasures while his sister could be wiser (which normally always is) and more prudent than her brother, who may be younger than she. These situations happen daily in Arab and Islamic countries. Any man takes twice what his sister receives. The only reason for it is the inequality between females and males. Why does this happen?

Because the brother has to support his own family as well (i.e. wife, kids). You have to remember one thing. Inheritance in no way is meant to be your sole financial source! Islam doesn't tell you rely on inheritane and be a bum. People who are so concerned about inheritance, IMHO, are way too materialistic and don't deserve to hold the title of a muslim in the first place.

Since the brother has a family to look after, he has greater responsibility than his single sister. Whatever she earns, she spends on herself. Its much harder to earn out of a given income and then use it on your family, rather than get that same income and live on it as a single person. That's just common sense.

Therefore, since a guy has more responsibility, the inheritance is there to help him out as a backup in the event something bad happens, like he loses his job or gets maimed, etc. You need to use the inheritance not as your primary income, but as a backup.

Therefore, the sister, whether she is married or not, will get a single unit of income whereas her brother gets double. Since a woman is not required to spend on her family, she doesn't need as much back up. This is Islam, not being unfair to a woman, but rather being fair to a man.

Islam, if it were to give equal portions to a female and male, would have to then require that females contribute to their family income equally as men. This would be unfair to the woman, because if she's birthing, nursing, taking care of the children, then there is no action a man is doing to balance her saccrifice to the family.

So if a girl was given equal shares, men would cry foul. Women would cry foul, because they'd become financially responsible for their families. If she's not given equal shares, women still cry foul, and some men as well.

And you can't have a system where a female is getting the same financial inheritance as a man, and then is not required to financially support her family in any way, either, because then that is being unfair to men.

The only issue I still have trouble grappling with is how the TESTIMONY of 2 females equals one man's testimony. Mainly because that's an intellectual issue, not a monetary one. If someone has an explanation for that, lemme know, cuz I haven't found any valid explanation except one essay that claims this was a measure taken in a time where women were less educated and experienced than men, and that this verse should be nullified in situations where a female is well educated and experienced. I don't know if I buy into that.

Re: Role of women in world’s major religions and why?

didn’t know you was a man either
:confused:

Re: Role of women in world's major religions and why?

[QUOTE]
**Because the brother has to support his own family as well (i.e. wife, kids). You have to remember one thing. Inheritance in no way is meant to be your sole financial source! **
Since the brother has a family to look after, he has greater responsibility than his single sister.
Therefore, the sister, whether she is married or not, will get a single unit of income whereas her brother gets double. Since a woman is not required to spend on her family, she doesn't need as much back up. This is Islam, not being unfair to a woman, but rather being fair to a man.
[/QUOTE]

Do these statements hold true if I were to argue this case- Lets say the brother is not married and the sister is also not married. The sister will eventually get married (the first one) have a family to look after (kids) and have more responsibility. Why then hand it over to the brother saying that he has to support his family as well. I say the sister may also have to look after her family if the guy whom she has been married to become maim, loses his job or becomes a nut case or becomes poor.

 If the brothers responsibility became greater after marriage so did the sister’s after she got married. 

       And if the brother marries to a rich family and the sister is packed off to a poor one? 

She will definitely use all her inheritance, savings her passion and dedication to support her family. This is what happens world over. In practise the women is always there for the family no matter what. That is where she will spend her inheritance, savings whether you tell her explicitly through religions or not.

       Is it now ok to say that Islam is fair to man by giving him double while the sisters family is mired in poverty. 

       What if the sister got married first and the brother is still a kid? 

       You simply cannot generalise. 



       *** 

[QUOTE]
And you can't have a system where a female is getting the same financial inheritance as a man, and then is not required to financially support her family in any way, either, because then that is being unfair to men.
[/QUOTE]


See the problem originates because of the thinking that there is no equality between a women and men in the first place as far as a work career goes. And the male dominated society put men on the saddle with a financial responsibility. This is an outdated thinking in itself.
Why should there be a "system" explaining this - In the Modern world, the costs of living and the equality thinking, pushes human beings to work and share equally or as agreed by the partners in the family pool. You do not need a system explaining that.

Now that they are equal in all respects the inheritance also goes out equally. This is how the modern nations establish as a principle. How does this become unjust to men then?

Given that muslim women work like in Turkey then a lot of muslim women do work and financially support the family doesn't this statement go out of the window.

        **Now the statement: **

[QUOTE]
A man is supposed to spend on his family, whereas a woman does not have to. Whatever share of inheritence she receives is hers to keep or spend as she desires. However, for a man, he must spend on his family.
[/QUOTE]

Where does the above women with a poor/disabled husband spend her money? You would admit on her family only. So whether you tell it or not it’s the family where it will ultimately end.
The men must but the women does.**You can count on the fingers women who do not **but you will not be able to count the number of men who must but does not. Is it not a reality?:(

Again, Why does the system have to tell the woman does not have to? Isn't she intelligent enough. To every person its family first and then others. Presume for a muslim women it will be truer - then whats the use of the statement that they can do anything with the money. The truth is every rational human being spends it only on the family first and the statement that a muslim women can do anything with her money does not go very far. My opinion of muslim women are very high on this respect. :)

       Prove me if I am wrong on that.

[QUOTE]
*** Islam, if it were to give equal portions to a female and male, would have to then require that females contribute to their family income equally as men. This would be unfair to the woman, because if she's birthing, nursing, taking care of the children, then there is no action a man is doing to balance her sacrifice to the family.***
[/QUOTE]
The alternate way is that since the women is birthing, nursing, taking care of the children she is already contributing in a major way and if she does financially (which she can do) then she has to receive twice as men. Would you call that just or unjust?
A women without saying in most of the cases would any way work for the well being of the family.
The problem is here - "there is no action a man is doing to balance her sacrifice to the family." Why cannot a man nurse or take care of the children - is that so difficult. No doubt muslim men would be taking care of their children, playing with them, reading stories etc everything counts!!!!. Even in the animal world there are examples of the male taking care of the off springs.
Its how you look at it and not how you are told to look at it........

Re: Role of women in world's major religions and why?

See the problem originates because of the thinking that there is no equality between a women and men in the first place as far as a work career goes

Your arguments all are valid, and although I have responses to them, I wont type them out now - too long.

However, this one point I highlighted here is VERY TRUE. Now, it depends on how you look at it. The Quran was revealed in tribal Arabia time period. You can't evaluate the Quran without looking at the history of the time period. Is God going to send down revelation that tells people how to deal with a male dominated society, because that's what they live in? Or is God going to instruct men to allow women into the "work force", when there really wasn't any formal work force as such in the time period (e.g. master's degrees leading into a nice white collar office job). Furthermore, tribal Arabia at the time was war-ridden. To get everyone to stop in one day all their warring, and then set up civilized societies in which everyone has a financial income coming in...that would be far-fetched. Just the fact that the Prophet (SAW) managed to make the changes he did make during his lifetime is more than what many could muster the strength to do.

The Quran's revelations on how to do inheritance distributions is based on a male-dominated soceity. Look around you. If you live in a Western country, you MIGHT be living in one where women do work. But even so, not all women do, and you have a substantial portion of women dependent upon men for an income.

In most Eastern countries, women are still holding traditional roles and not venturing into the work place. I'd say Pakistan is pretty ahead of the game, and countries like Japan and China are definitely ahead of the game. But even so, worldwide you still find many women financially dependent upon men.

Now if it was so natural and so right for every woman to be financially independent, wouldn't mankind have developed a system by now that CATEGORICALLY EVERY female would be financially independent of her husband?

I see that at the most, at any future time point in history, at the most you will see a certain percentage of women being financially independent. There will always be some fraction of women that are financially dependent on their husbands.

I just don't see anything wrong in this because men will ALWAYS be, and categorically too, dependent on women biologically. Men can't ever produce their own offspring asexually. They will always rely on women biologically. So human reproduction and propogation of our race depends mostly on women. Not only do we birth, but we also nurse. So you're looking at 10 months gestation (9 because 1 of the months we're not aware we're pregnant), and anywhere up to 2 years for nursing. Even then, a 2 year old can't just get up and survive on their own. Someone needs to care for the 2 year old at least until the time period when they're done with their "development", and these days "development" has been stretched until 18 or 20 due to educational development (which is something we've attached to biological development).

Its unrealistic to think, that with this biological set-up we have to work around, that every female will have the energy or the time to pursue a career plus take care of things at home. In addition, plain economics will tell you that it can't hold 100 percent employment of every individual in any given country (unless the country is an Island of sorts), since even with the number of people employed now in each country, there is a substantial number of men unemployed. If 100 percent men can't be employed, how are you going to find jobs for every woman out there?

As much as I sometimes do look down upon sit-at-home moms, I really should salute them. They open up the job market a little so that I have room to play in it. :Salute: