rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America

what a pity! the paranoia and the pukeable hatred.
what to do about it??
chime!
dushi

just to further demonstrate the ignorance and fear of the Muslim community amongst the American public…

Radio Hoax Exposes Anti-Muslim Sentiment in U.S.

By Bernd Debusmann, Reuters

WASHINGTON (Dec. 1) – When radio host Jerry Klein suggested that all
Muslims in the United States should be identified with a crescent-shape
tattoo or a distinctive arm band, the phone lines jammed instantly.

The first caller to the station in Washington said that Klein must be “off
his rocker.” The second congratulated him and added: “Not only do you tattoo
them in the middle of their forehead but you ship them out of this country
… they are here to kill us.”

Another said that tattoos, armbands and other identifying markers such as
crescent marks on driver’s licenses, passports and birth certificates did
not go far enough. “What good is identifying them?” he asked. “You have to
set up encampments like during World War Two with the Japanese and Germans.”

At the end of the one-hour show, rich with arguments on why visual
identification of “the threat in our midst” would alleviate the public’s
fears, Klein revealed that he had staged a hoax. It drew out reactions that
are not uncommon in post-9/11 America.

“I can’t believe any of you are sick enough to have agreed for one second
with anything I said,” he told his audience on the AM station 630 WMAL,
which covers Washington, Northern Virginia and Maryland.

"For me to suggest to tattoo marks on people’s bodies, have them wear
armbands, put a crescent moon on their driver’s license on their passport or
birth certificate is disgusting. It’s beyond disgusting.

“Because basically what you just did was show me how the German people
allowed what happened to the Jews to happen … We need to separate them, we
need to tattoo their arms, we need to make them wear the yellow Star of
David, we need to put them in concentration camps, we basically just need to
kill them all because they are dangerous.”

The show aired on November 26, the Sunday after the Thanksgiving holiday,
and Klein said in an interview afterwards he had been surprised by the
response.

“The switchboard went from empty to totally jammed within minutes,” said
Klein. “There were plenty of callers angry with me, but there were plenty
who agreed.”

Those in agreement are not a fringe minority.

A Gallup poll this summer of more than 1,000 Americans showed that 39
percent were in favor of requiring Muslims in the United States, including
American citizens, to carry special identification.

Roughly a quarter of those polled said they would not want to live next door
to a Muslim and a third thought that Muslims in the United States
sympathized with al Qaeda, the extremist group behind the September 11,
2001, attacks on New York and Washington.

A poll carried out by the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), an
advocacy group, found that for one in three Americans, the word Islam
triggers negative connotations such as “war,” “hatred” and “terrorist.” The
war in Iraq has contributed to such perceptions.

Klein’s show followed a week of heated discussions on talk radio, including
his own, and online forums over an incident on November 22 involving six
Muslim clerics. They were handcuffed and taken off a US Airways flight after
passengers reported “suspicious behavior” that included praying in the
departure gate area.

The clerics, on their way to a meeting of the North American Imams
Federation, were detained in a holding cell, questioned by police and FBI
agents, and released. Muslim community leaders saw the incident as yet more
evidence of anti-Muslim prejudice.

Ignorance Seen as Key Problem

Several American Muslims interviewed on the subject of prejudice over the
past few weeks said ignorance was at the core of the problem.

“The level of knowledge is very, very low,” said Mohamed Esa, a U.S. Muslim
of Arab descent who teaches a course on Islam at McDaniel College in
Maryland. “There are 1.3 billion Muslims in the world and some people think
they are all terrorists.”

Hossam Ahmed, a retired Air Force Reserve colonel who occasionally leads
prayer meetings for the small Muslim congregation at the Pentagon, agreed.
“Ignorance is the number one problem. Education is of the essence.”

There are no hard figures on how many Muslims have been subject to
harassment or prejudice and community leaders say that ugly incidents can
prompt spontaneous expressions of support. Such as the e-mail a Minneapolis
woman sent to CAIR after the imams were taken off their flight.

“I would like to … help,” the e-mail said. “While I cannot offer plane
tickets, I would be happy to drive at least 2 or 3 of them. My car is small,
but at least some of our hearts in this land of the free are large.”

And optimists saw signs of change in the November 4 election of the first
Muslim to the U.S. House of Representatives, which has 435 members.

Democrat Keith Ellison, a 43-year-old African-American lawyer, did not
stress his religion during his campaign for a Minnesota seat, but said his
victory would “signal to people who are not Muslims that Muslims have a lot
to offer to the United States and the improvement of our country.”

“The fact is that a man who wants to act virtuously in every way necessarily
comes to grief among so many who are not virtuous.”
-------- Machiavelli

“All the darkness in the world cannot extinguish the light of a single
candle.”
------ Francis of Assissi

Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America

How truly sad.

I've said this before but its worth repeating.

Muslims in the US TEND to group together in certain neighborhoods and avoid integrating into the general public. This fosters the mistrust. NOT that I'm saying Muslims are to blame here. But they are a generally mysterious people to "mainstream" americans. LET them get to know you, your traditions and beleifs.

I live in an area that is mainly christian, some jewish and a handful or less muslim. But its very close to NYC and an area thats considered very "educated". We see no discrimination here and thats because people are more educated. For instance, at holiday school concerts, if they sing a christmas carol, they also sing a jewish holiday song and a muslim holiday song and they learn in school about the traditions of each.

More education and less islolation is the cure for this evil. IMHO.

God/Allah speed the first Muslim senator! Now THATS how to get more public knowledge and acceptance going!!

Re: rock heads and then some more…anti- Muslim America

he is already underfire from right wing idiots for his desire to take the oath by swearing on Quran rather than the bible, which he is allowed to do, but I guess people dont like it.

I agree that muslims need to go out and meet people, but that is somewhat of a bogus argument, because we work with everyone else, in corporate offices, small stores, medical facilities, airports.. you name it. we work as contractors, we hire contractors..we do have exposure to many people.

This has to be a combined effort, msulims need to reach out to people, and people need to learn themselves as well. then there are those who will not learn no matter how much outreach you do, right?

Some people are plain simple racist though that was the case with my idiot polish neighbour, who never bothered to respond back to a hello or anything, to a point that I just ignored him, finally the idiot moved and a nice family moved in.

There are good and bad, after 9/11 an old college fratrnity brother that I had lost contact me called to say that he was willing to drive from Cincinanti to Chicago, pick me up and drop me off at his parents farm in Kansas where I can hide if things get ugly quickly.. he was thinking of the japanese camps situation. My neighbours called to say that they did not want us to feel awkward because they know ist not a muslim thing, and to look them up if they can do anything to help us.

on the ther hand some idiots went thru the trouble of going through the phone book to call me and leave nasty messages on my voicemail :slight_smile:

Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America

I read with (almost) disbelief about how people are getting up-in-arms about the new senator's swearing-in! SHEESH!!! What IDIOTS!!! I mean, you make the guy swear-in on a bible which is NOT his own holy book - OR - you let him take the oath of office on his OWN holy book. This SHOULDNT be so hard for people to figger out!!!

The thing is, you'll find these idiots EVERYWHERE. But when they see more of something and it becomes more familiar to them, they are more likely to accept and learn I think. The "great unknown" is the scariest thing ever to ignorant people.

As a bit of an aside, I've worked with a good number of Desis. They come to work, they are personable. But when it comes to going out after work, they shy away (its in a bar)....they dont realize that its OK!!! if they have a pepsi! They do not go to xmas parties because that isnt part of their religion. They do not like to socialize outside of their ethnic neighborhoods nor do they like to answer questions about their beleifs and practices. Again, this isnt really a critisizm of Muslims but when THEY are the "strangers" in a strange land, they would be so much more "easily" accepted and understood if they got a bit more involved ?

Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America

I agree.

Have a coke, have a glass of water!

Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America

mama I agree, people do need to do a little bit more in terms of after work activities. or lunches. At my old company, I was the originator of the sushi lunch. last friday of every month, we would grab a bunch of people and go.

I dont know which desis you have worked with but everyone i know goes to their offices 'holiday' party ( hehe they have politically corrected it, not that it realy matterd to me atleast)

socializing is a diff situation, and I agree there can be more and should be more.

as far as answering about beliefs and practices, in some cases it just gets uncomfortable. I have had fantastic discussions with colleagues about my faith, or with neighbours, but one of the worst one i had was with a former colleague..who after 9/11 on an msn chat wanted to ask questions but had his mind already made up. To a point I finally just told him, Mark, read a few books, to get a balanced view and then we will talk more, but right now I feel like a convict being questioned by a prosecutor. He has his mind made up and aside from venting his anger, he really had no purpose in talking to me. On the flip side another pal of mine who I had not been in touch with for 3-4 years called and said dude I just need to know a few things because what I am reading and wat I am hearing simply can not be true based on what I know of you and our other muslim friends, we had a great chat, and he walked away more knowledgeable.

after how many generations do they stop being strangers in a strange land? I am not dodging any responsibility on the part of muslims, but it has to be a two way street.

Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America

yes, I agree and its a sad thing. As they say, persistence pays off - I guess if you take that to its literal end, it means that even in the face of ignoramuses galore, you persist and therefore earn even more your place in the here-after.

I stopped working prior to 9/11 so I think things were a bit different then, sad to say. But even prior to then, there were always be the idiots who take the questioning too far and are so engulfed in their own little universes that they cannot accept those of different ways, traditions and beleifs. But even then, its better that they see and are exposed to different beleifs because even if their small minds cannot accept, they will be less "fearful" or mistrustful?

Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America

Mama, I completely agree with you. Muslims do need to make more of an attempt to befriend and socialize with other Americans. Unfamiliarity breeds most of the mistrust. I live in a neighborhood where another desi family lived for almost 10 years, but none of the neighbors knew them well. They didn't say hello, refused Christmas cookie trays, never went to the block parties, and didn't allow their kids to go over to the neighbor kid's homes. This is in the small- town midwest where any of the above is enough to brand you as extremely rude.

Some of the other neighbors commented that my husband and I changed many of their attitudes about muslims because we were friendly, didn't look like we had anything to hide, and answered their questions.

Many Americans (my parents included) genuinely don't understand why people would move to this country, then refuse to socialize with people of different ethnicities.

Fraudia - it's more the second gens and younger first gens who I have seen at the office parties. Many of the older immigrants I know don't attend these functions and have more of an anti-gora attitude. My own brother-in-law has probably never been to a party which included non-muslims, excepting my parents, and he has lived in Canada for 9 years. He's well educated, not a religious fanatic, and works in IT, so I'm not sure exactly what the problem is.

Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America

Ah, the good people of east coast. They get tricked so easy! Just the fact that congress & Bush spend a lot of time in DC, the average IQ has to be below acceptable.

Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America

And I don't mind the tatoo but please not on the forehead, I would like a cresent one on my arm. It will look cool.

Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America

Dushi, to answer your question, it's going to take time and a lot of education on our part to counteract the mistrust. If you look at the history of the US, prior to 9/11 muslims had it easy compared to other ethnic groups, including Jews, Italians, Irish, etc., when it came to being 'accepted.' Look at the Sacco & Vanzetti trial in the 1920's, the KKK buring crosses, turning away Jews during WWII, and so on. But all have gone on to be accepted and mixed into the "salad bowl". We don't have to fight so hard to take a day off of school for Eid because Jewish people already fought that battle for us. African muslims don't have to fight for equal facilities because African Americans already did that.

Muslims comprise one of the most well-educated and wealthy immigrant groups, but we are also one of the most complacent. For at least a generation people were more concerned with making money and creating a mini-Pakistan in their home than with securing a place for their children in this country.

It's not difficult to demonstrate what Islam is all about. Give to a local charity, talk to your neighbors, bake them cookies, take a co-worker out to lunch, host an iftaar party or Eid open house for non-muslims, join the PTA, have an Eid party at school in your child's class, etc.

It doesn't take a lot, but it does take you leaving the safety of your own community.

Re: rock heads and then some more…anti- Muslim America

Many people feel uncomfortable going to events where there is alcohol being served. You may not agree with it, but those are their beliefs. It may seem alien to others but that is what they are raised with and it is a matter of principle for them.

as far as friendliness goes, is it not a two way street though? welcoming new neighbours and all that? If one does not feel welcomed, then the probability that the person in question would make an attempt is further decreased.

I mean when someone says oh my neighbour is not friendly, well did you go and try to be friendly or are you waiting for the neighbour to initiate contact :slight_smile:

Re: rock heads and then some more…anti- Muslim America

but that dude from the tv show stargate as it on his forehead and it looks kinda cool.

is the cresent going to be like just one or will we have options of color, shape and size etc?

Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America

Rights of immigrants and having immigrant citizens are fairly new ideas in modern world. Muslims were kicked out of Spain after 500 years and those who left were either children of converts (fair skin, brown/golden hair) or descendents of those who'd arrived from N. Africa -- that generation had seen lot of inter-marriage with natives too.

UN or another international body needs to make it clear when a person becomes a national than a citizen. Time is high for that because the world is becoming increasingly mobile and will continue to do so as natural resources (shortages of water due to climate changes) dwindle.

Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America

It may be a bit hard-line to say this but consumption of alcohol is a fact of life in the US and most/all european countries. If a person finds it so very abhorrent that they cannot even be in the same room with those who enjoy consuming it, it is (or can be) construed as insulting to those who see nothing wrong with it and those hard-line abstainers should perhaps remain in countries (or even counties in US) where alcohol consumption is prohibited. There is absolutely nothing wrong with abstaining and no one is ever (or SHOULD ever be) critisized for it. In the same vein, no one should be critisized for enjoying a cocktail (of course within limits which is most often the case). Same goes for a neighbor offering cookies, baked goods or welcome casserole...a response of "sorry, I cant eat that" would be taken as rude and condescending while a nice smiley "Thank you" and send back a clean plate a few days later (even if the contents of the plate went in the garbage) goes SO far in good relations. Westerners have a certain way of life, they typically allow others THEIR way of life and have no problem co-existing - unless there are undertones of condescension, disapproval or judgement. This has been MY experience anyway, I could be wrong and I;m sure there are horror stories out there from those who may live in the deep south or in a "desi" enclave....

Re: rock heads and then some more…anti- Muslim America

Here is the link for anyone who would like to listen: http://rope.wmal.com/aud_archive/jk061126.mp3

Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America

*It may be a bit hard-line to say this but consumption of alcohol is a fact of life in the US and most/all european countries. If a person finds it so very abhorrent that they cannot even be in the same room with those who enjoy consuming it, it is (or can be) construed as insulting to those who see nothing wrong with it and those hard-line abstainers should perhaps remain in countries (or even counties in US) where alcohol consumption is prohibited. *

You are right, it is very hard line. Its not a question of not being able to be in a room with those who enjoy consuming it, but more along the lines of not be around while it is being consumed. There are very few people who think like that, but that is their choice. Socializing is not just around drinking beer or wine is it?

Now it can be construed as being rude, but is it? so people who construe it as being rude are wrong as well. especially if the person has made it clear that its nothing personal but it is a matter of his beliefs.

If a person does not go to events where alcohol is present but goes to other ones, would his choices not be respected.

*There is absolutely nothing wrong with abstaining and no one is ever (or SHOULD ever be) critisized for it. In the same vein, no one should be critisized for enjoying a cocktail (of course within limits which is most often the case). *

criticizing is one thing, taking part in it is another. Just like you want people to respect teh rights of those who want to drink, you should respect the rights of people who dont want to drink, or do not want to be in gatherigs where alcohol is being served.

**
Same goes for a neighbor offering cookies, baked goods or welcome casserole...a response of "sorry, I cant eat that" would be taken as rude and condescending while a nice smiley "Thank you" and send back a clean plate a few days later (even if the contents of the plate went in the garbage) **

would it not be proper to ask a neighbour what is in those cookies. I dont think that taking and trashing approach is right, maybe the first time or so, but if you are going to educate people that you dont eat any pig related products .. which btw includes premade pie crusts as they have lard in those, or shortening for cookies.

Right here sincerity goes out the window replaced by keeping up appearances.

btw, the desi way is to not send an empty plate bac, but send it back with goodies.

How do you tell neighbours what you believe, what your way of life is. blending in 100% is not always a solution.

** Westerners have a certain way of life, they typically allow others THEIR way of life and have no problem co-existing - unless there are undertones of condescension, disapproval or judgement. **

One does not have to be condescending, but not be comfortable or accpet certain things right? just because I will not tae something with lard does not say that i think the person who prepared it is a monster

desis dont have a problem with allowing others THEIR way of life either, as a matter of fact every desi wedding i have gone to where there are non desis..everyone, and I mean everyone bends over backwards to make sure that the non desi guests kow what is going on, feel a part of it, and are well taken care of.

Yes there is a big responsibility on muslims to meet and greet, but if some people's choice of not going to bars etc makes them be labelled as rude and anti-social than I guess there is an issue of maturity and acceptance with the other party.

Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America

i agree with Mama 100 % pos

we clearly need to be all one, as Americans and also as human beings.
i do hope that there are people of all back grounds who have cleaner conscience and with the good- well-meaning and hardworking people on the one side, things may change for good, God willing.
we need to be alert and always safe guard our identity and give respect to get respect.

stereotypes, prejudgments, irrational prejudicial ideas and unfounded fears, will all have to go!

& no, the thread was not on acohol consumption and fights related to it.

Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America

I agree with the part that one needs to be more involved and what nots, but we should also respect the views of that minority that does not feel comfortable in a gathering where alcohol is being served. I dont agree with their views, but I do not want to force my views on them.

Re: rock heads and then some more…anti- Muslim America

:smack:

not that we should quit trying by any means…but i think the world is a lost cause…