Re: rock heads and then some more…anti- Muslim America
Great show! :k:
Re: rock heads and then some more…anti- Muslim America
No its not, if there was no difference of opinion and diversity of thought, we would be one boring place
Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America
mamaof 3 just s u know, I am not disagreing with you in the greater context. I think there is a small minority of ppl especially the older first generation who would not attend such events, but that does not change the fact that they can do things in other ways. Just thought I would clarify
Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America
I'm about to derail this thread, but in defence of Americans, I have to say that we tend to be much more tolerant and understanding of other's cultures and practices than some parts of the world.
When I lived in Pakistan, I was only allowed to wear salwar kameez, had to behave in "culturally acceptable" way, couldn't drive, couldn't go anywhere alone, couldn't cook my own foods, and had to alter my behavior in hundreds of other ways. If I dared to wear jeans around the house or make pizza, not only was I condemned by all the relatives for being "too modren", but the servants would stare at me like I had grown a tail.
The community here isn't much better. I as an American am expected to wear salwar kameez to all the desi parties, serve Pakistani food to guests in my home, and teach my children "Pakistani values". I always wondered what would happen if I told guests who came to my home "you look so much nicer in jeans - why does your husband let you wear that?" or started serving fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy, green beans, and corn with apple pie for dessert. I'm guessing I would be the subject of quite a bit more gossip and general rudeness.
If I am moving to another country, (and I have done this several times), I expect that I will make certain changes to adapt to the lifestyle in that country, not automatically head for the nearest American enclave and cut myself off from everyone else. If I was planning to do that, I may as well have stayed at home!
Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America
I agree with you that people should have options about what events they will attend, but what about those who exclude themselves from all activities involving people from different races, even if said events don't include alcohol or anything "haraam"? There was recently an article on the BBC web site about Mirpuris in the UK, and the extent (or lack thereof) of integration. One man mentioned that he didn't feel that his cultural values had been under seige, because he never met anyone who was white during his stay - I found that both disturbing and sad.
Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America
to address your last statement first, that is pretty much exactly how americans are in middle east, and this is not new, I am talking about it going back 25 years.
How about an american city in the midle of saudi arabia, with US TV and all that, to a point that if u were there youwould think u are in some tow in arizona :)
Your experience in pakistan and your experience with the desi community here tells more about the social circle that you were in Pakistan as well as the desi social circles you may be in US. I went to a frineds bday party just recently, the only person wearing a shalwar qameez was her mother.
US is also a much more mixed society, but there are expectations here as well. I can nto go to work wearing pakistani clothes :) some women do and some companies allow it but its rare.
as a ratio, I see more western folks wearing western clothes in Pakistan than I see desi ppl wear desi clothes in US like out in the street or in the malls
yes US is more open, because of its history and because it is a nation of immigrants, but that does not mean that what is wring here gets tossed out of the window just because its not as bad as in pakistan or Saudi Arabia. The fact that pakistan really needs to grow up as a society does not mean that US does not have things that it needs to sort
so much respect to US for being as inclusive and as diverse as it is, as someone said, lets make sure it is less of a melting pot and more of a salad :)
Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America
^You are correct, my husband is from a middle-class military/civil servant family that is very conservative. That conservatism has only increased after a couple of divorces in the family recently. They've been settled in cities for years, but the wives almost always come from "their village", which is where a lot of the nonsense comes from.
Most of the people we socialize with here are first gen immigrants, and I think that makes a difference too. I see them around town in jeans and such, but when it comes to parties it's back to salwar kameez. I don't have a lot of experience with "ABCDs". We don't live in a large city, so we don't have a lot of variety :).
We lived in an American apartment complex in Dubai, and it was shocking how similar it was to being in the US. Malaysia was another eye-opener. When my father was stationed in Libya (many moons ago), we lived on the base there, and it was also totally American. My parent placed us in local international schools when possible, because they felt that the point of taking us overseas to my father's postings was to 'broaden our horizons', which wasn't going to happen at a DOD school.
I am not suggesting that people give up their cultures when moving to the US, only that they come out of their comfort zones a bit and socialize across ethnic and religious lines. That alone would work wonders to improve the image of muslims in North America.
Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America
*^You are correct, my husband is from a middle-class military/civil servant family that is very conservative. That conservatism has only increased after a couple of divorces in the family recently. They've been settled in cities for years, but the wives almost always come from "their village", which is where a lot of the nonsense comes from. *
That explains things, I see the contrast among my mothers side, which is an extremely conservative group versus my dad's side which is pretty chilled out. It was common for us cousins to wear jeans and tshirts..guys and girls alike, in our family events, picnics etc etc on my dad's side of teh family, contrast that to my mum's side where I baely talked to my female cousins. they have chilled out significantly since and are not quite as strict but the contrast did give me insights into workings of diff groups.
*Most of the people we socialize with here are first gen immigrants, and I think that makes a difference too. I see them around town in jeans and such, but when it comes to parties it's back to salwar kameez. I don't have a lot of experience with "ABCDs". We don't live in a large city, so we don't have a lot of variety :). *
ahhhh, u know what you may be missing, for some people its also more of a 'back home' feeling thing that when they get together they want to wear their traditional clothes, in other cases it is an expectation. To give you an idea my desi social group is a vry mixed group, ranging from ppl who grew up in pak and just mved here to ppl who were born and raised here and have never gone to Pak. at some events we will wear desi clothes at some we will not, more so girls than guys, and usually they decide among themselves.. my wife calls one of the other ladies and asks, hey desi or non desi..and they plan then.
In general there is a difference between 1st gen recent arrivals versus ppl who have been here for some time or are secind generation. I am more comfortable with 2nd generation ppl in general.
I am not suggesting that people give up their cultures when moving to the US, only that they come out of their comfort zones a bit and socialize across ethnic and religious lines. That alone would work wonders to improve the image of muslims in North America.
Indeed, no doubt about it. It pisses me off when i see ppl who have been here for ages and they dont have a single non desi friend.
Re: rock heads and then some more…anti- Muslim America
That is very disturbing and sad. its like there are desis in Uk who have been there for 20 or 30 years and still cant speak english, same for many mexicans in US.
btw I love your choice of word..integrate, versus assimilate..that is it, ne has to integrate in teg society of their adopted country, one does not have to assimilate, but being detached in personal and social spheres just does not do anything.
I chose on purpose to live with someone wom I knew little about. my first year in undergrad, I asked for a jewish roomie. they could not get me one, but when i moved into the fraternity house a few months later, my first roomie was a jew. we learnt so much from one another.. and while we had racist nicknames for one another.. he calle dme abdul and I called him stein..we had a blast. Not only did I learn firsthand about jews, i was able to experience their cuisine, cultural events etc etc. and vice versa. I have an old pic somewhere where we made fun of stereotypes and for halloween I dressed up as a caricature of what ppl in middle east think a jew is and he dressed up as a caricature of what many jews think muslims (or really arabs) are like.. it was hilarious.
Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America
at some events we will wear desi clothes at some we will not, more so girls than guys, and usually they decide among themselves.. my wife calls one of the other ladies and asks, hey desi or non desi..and they plan then.
Now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever seen any of the men except the elderly wearing salwar kameez at any event, barring eid. It is strictly the ladies.
Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America
I chose on purpose to live with someone wom I knew little about. my first year in undergrad, I asked for a jewish roomie. they could not get me one, but when i moved into the fraternity house a few months later, my first roomie was a jew. we learnt so much from one another.. and while we had racist nicknames for one another.. he calle dme abdul and I called him stein..we had a blast. Not only did I learn firsthand about jews, i was able to experience their cuisine, cultural events etc etc. and vice versa. I have an old pic somewhere where we made fun of stereotypes and for halloween I dressed up as a caricature of what ppl in middle east think a jew is and he dressed up as a caricature of what many jews think muslims (or really arabs) are like.. it was hilarious.
That sounds like an amazing experience, and it is brave of you to jump in and experience the unknown.
I have always been drawn to other cultures, part of that comes from being stationed all over the world as a child, so never had the fear of the unknown.
I don't believe in assimilation, because this is a nation of immigrants, and the US is so much richer for all of the cultural traditions that have become an accepted part of the culture.
My husband and I lived in the UK for several years early in our marriage, and I met so many ladies who spoke no English, even after living there for decades. I feel that so many of the issues that British muslims face can be attributed to the attitudes of the community. There is, however, an underlying racism I noticed there that I have never felt here. Maybe I am oblivious to it because this is my home.
Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America
I chose on purpose to live with someone wom I knew little about. my first year in undergrad, I asked for a jewish roomie. they could not get me one, but when i moved into the fraternity house a few months later, my first roomie was a jew. we learnt so much from one another.. and while we had racist nicknames for one another.. he calle dme abdul and I called him stein..we had a blast. Not only did I learn firsthand about jews, i was able to experience their cuisine, cultural events etc etc. and vice versa. I have an old pic somewhere where we made fun of stereotypes and for halloween I dressed up as a caricature of what ppl in middle east think a jew is and he dressed up as a caricature of what many jews think muslims (or really arabs) are like.. it was hilarious.
That sounds like an amazing experience, and it is brave of you to jump in and experience the unknown.
I have always been drawn to other cultures, part of that comes from being stationed all over the world as a child, so never had the fear of the unknown.
I don't believe in assimilation, because this is a nation of immigrants, and the US is so much richer for all of the cultural traditions that have become an accepted part of the culture.
My husband and I lived in the UK for several years early in our marriage, and I met so many ladies who spoke no English, even after living there for decades. I feel that so many of the issues that British muslims face can be attributed to the attitudes of the community. There is, however, an underlying racism I noticed there that I have never felt here. Maybe I am oblivious to it because this is my home. To me the UK was a warning of what life could be like here for muslims if we weren't careful.
Re: rock heads and then some more...anti- Muslim America
I chose on purpose to live with someone wom I knew little about. my first year in undergrad, I asked for a jewish roomie. they could not get me one, but when i moved into the fraternity house a few months later, my first roomie was a jew. we learnt so much from one another.. and while we had racist nicknames for one another.. he calle dme abdul and I called him stein..we had a blast. Not only did I learn firsthand about jews, i was able to experience their cuisine, cultural events etc etc. and vice versa. I have an old pic somewhere where we made fun of stereotypes and for halloween I dressed up as a caricature of what ppl in middle east think a jew is and he dressed up as a caricature of what many jews think muslims (or really arabs) are like.. it was hilarious.
That sounds like an amazing experience, and it is brave of you to jump in and experience the unknown.
I have always been drawn to other cultures, part of that comes from being stationed all over the world as a child, so never had the fear of the unknown.
I don't believe in assimilation, because this is a nation of immigrants, and the US is so much richer for all of the cultural traditions that have become an accepted part of the culture.
My husband and I lived in the UK for several years early in our marriage, and I met so many ladies who spoke no English, even after living there for decades. I feel that so many of the issues that British muslims face can be attributed to the attitudes of the community. There is, however, an underlying racism I noticed there that I have never felt here. Maybe I am oblivious to it because this is my home. To me the UK was a warning of what life could be like here for muslims if we weren't careful.