Akif: by no means did I imply that I was not wary of what my immediate family thinks, I respect their input wholeheartedly, however in every family you have a tribe of gossiper and baloney talkers that I am carefree of and you have to acknowledge that you can never satisfy EVERYONE thus why put my life on hold because I you need the approval of people who just want to cause drama. In my view what my parents and siblings say matters most. That’s not living in denial of culture that’s just the pathetic factors of human nature. The reason I said the rishta seekers should be reserved is because often before the rishta is even set so much hype is created that if it does not go through it ends up putting a blemish in the reputation of a girl (most commonly) or the guy.
As far as the dowry going down wow that’s great to know that the shameful tactic of impressing people is on a downfall. But currently I guess the rule of “matching or doubling” the amount of gold you give to the bride in comparison to the last wedding is beaming. Anyway that’s a different topic.
Roman: Very well said, kudos to you!
“Post-marital problems can arise without their having anything to do with how the marriage occurred at the first place, and they can also arise their having a lot to do with it as well, but that holds true in either case (Love vs. Arrange marriages). I don't think there is anything of substantiality as a lower or higher rate of failure - it may just seems like that because of a person's own preferences.”
Oye, BoSS, what's wrong with sharabi kababi husbands, haiN<<
Roman man I was just trying to put a finger on the possible reason of me getting divorced before marriage.
[quote]
Originally posted by PyariCgudia:
**I didn't meet him , again. I partially chickened out and partially by the time i was done with some important work, it was already time for his class. So I'm kind of relieved.
I just want to make one thing clear...this issue that i'm facing is not an arranged marriage in that my parents aren't involved. In fact, they have no idea. Its my friends who are proceeding to put marriage ideas into this guys head and from what I hear, he's liking it. I've seen him, he's seen me. We haven't talked yet. I just dont want things to lead to marriage and one part of me says that if I befriend him knowing that he might be expecting something more than just friendship, I might be acting as a player i guess. Which I'm not. So I dont know what to do... and yes, the whole sotan thing has me worried too. I dont want to be his second or third or fourth! Kash, why can't I meet nice Pakistani guys - the whole problem would be solved, if I could meet a decent Pakistani guy!**
[/quote]
Hahahaha... Simple 2 reasons
1) You are looking for physical attributes that he doest have?
2) And more likely, if he did look sort of agreeable, nice and decent, the first thing you are likely to see happening is: Ok decent desi guy... hmmmm... whats he hiding.. whats wrong with him that I can not tell.
Not exagerated versions of my imagination, but something I have seen happening with a decent and nice friends of mine sereral times.
Thanks guys, you've helped clear up the problem quite a bit.
I dont see this group of friends every day, dervaish, so its really hard for me to keep up with what they tease this guy about. I have already made it clear to them not to put any ideas into his head and that me saying "he's cute" doesn't even mean that i want a tentative relationship with him. But they dont listen...they enjoy teasing him. So there's not much I can do.
I agree with you Boss. In marriage, the final decision rests with the husband and the wife if they wish to get married or not. Even the Rasul, if you want to bring religion into the whole thing, encouraged couples to meet and get to know each other's minds and personalities before making any decision (in the company of other people of course). And the only reason why people in Pakistan usually do not resort to divorce is because of family pressures. sure, the divorce rate may be low in Pakistan. But perhaps you ought to go and conduct a private poll to see how many people are actually happy with their marriages. Every time i go there, I see personalitiless mothers tending after their children with this blank look in their eyes. They do not know who they are and furthermore, they dont know who their husbands really are. That is not a marriage. That's breeding cattle. I dont intend on getting arranged, the most i'm willing to do is for my parents to suggest some guys. Otherwise, I do fully intend to hang out with him and get to know him even before the magni. Its only logical.
Secondly, I am definitely at school to study, not to get married. My whole point isnt that I'm looking at this guy as a potential husband, but I'm afraid that before he decides whether he'd like to be friends with me, he'll be judging me as a potential wife. Which is why i was debating whether I should even meet him. I've always felt that you find your humsaathi after becoming best friends with them. I really would feel uncomfortable if this guy is checking out my appearance to make sure i'm some "healthy bakri", before deciding whether he wants to even get to know WHO i am.
Well, here is my decision: Im not pursuing him. If he asks my friends to give me a call and call me over for some lunch, I'll go. Otherwise, I'm not going out of my way to seek this guy and hav lunch with him. I have a tite schedule and a lot of work. I dont have time to be running after folks. And if we're meant to be friends, or if we're meant to be in love, we'll meet. However that may be.
by the way hmcq, i'm not into paki guys more than arab guys cuz of the way they look ( i think arab guys are way finer), but I want my kids to grow up saying they're Pakistani.
Plus, as some people well know, I wish to go back to Pakiland and work there. I dont think an arab guy who is rich would be comfortable with that.
[quote]
Originally posted by BoSS: What is wrong with divorce?
[/quote]
Nothings wrong...other than the breakup of a family....and an uncertain future for x number of kids.
I hope your remark was not as callous as it seemed, because the answer to your question would best be given by those who actually go through this ordeal, and not all of them are sharaabis and rangeelis.
Regarding family interventions, my argument was that they help 'resolve' the disputes that might lead to a divorce otherwise. They dont always 'force' the couple into staying together.
Roman
I wasnt comparing US and Pakistan. I was comparing arranged and love marriages. And well, to take your point, lets compare arranged and love marriages within Pakistan as well. Though I dont have any stats with me, but undoubtedly, the trend will be the same.
Perhaps I should repeat my core idea. 1. Divorce breaks families, hence should be avoided. 2. Both arranged and love marriages are fine, so long as they facilitate concepts that will help keep the family together. It seems as if love marriage is advocated to provide an easy passage for either parties to a divorce, in case they run into a problem, no matter how trivial it may be.
Akif, yes you were not comparing US and Pakistan per se but you are comparing how marriages are arranged IN Pakistan vs IN US. That's a huge cultural crossover. It ignores certain other cultural dynamics which play important roles.
My core point was that rate of divorce has nothing to do with how the marriage occured (whether arrange or love marriage). There are far more important factors that come into play (cultural values, family influence - one way or the other, compatibilty among partners, etc etc). You cannot generalize selectively and pinpoint it all on something that may not even be remotely related, more than factors directly responsible, for the success/failure of a marriage.
what about Love marriage Arranged? you comeup with guy/gal , u like.him/her , he/she likes you. one of you takes the initative. start talking, knowing each other. Satisfied with each other ideas, thoughts , and way of living..
involve your parents in, ask them to communicate with the parents of other person. now its the time for families to know each other. and if you are lucky enough, families agree for your marriage..
an Ideal situation isntit ??
Well nationality shouldnt be any problem. as well the other guy/gal is Muslim go for it. Even Muslims can marry christians.. thats allowed..
Divorce not a good act even disliked by Allah Almighty, as Said in Quran. not the best solution, but could be the ultimate one in extreme situation.
Bluebell-
I’ll have to agree with you. Glad you’ve joined this Paki bandwagon, maybe you’ll help some see that being paki isn’t synonomous with being a good person or a good muslim. such confused little souls!
P-
Don’t be so cynical, the guy may not be checking you out to see if you’re a healthy bakri. He might just try to see if you have a personality. There’s always some time for fun, all work and no play makes jack a dull boy.
Marriage is serious business, can’t consider every joe on the street darling. Marriage shouldn’t even enter the head unless you’re with someone that you’re totally head over heals with. Thinking about marriage when you first meet someone is way too premature!
And what’s the deal with wanting you’re kids to think they are “Pakistani”? Comeon, we’re living in the 21st century, we’re educated, and hopefully a little bit more open minded than that. What kinda logic is it to say that you find Arab men more attractive but want “Pakistani” children.
Erase all the labels in your head, slow down, and live for today.
Muni thank you, you seem very knowledgeable. I dont see people as Pakistanis, Arabs, Turks etc......if they are Muslim then that's how I see them, not with labels. My children will grow up MUSLIMS first and foremost. All this dividing up, all this bridge building is killing Islam. We are one ummah and we should start to act like it, its soo sad to see so-many Jahilin today. Once again Thank you
Adab to every one here!
May i make a point here!
I havent read the whole posting though but im replying anyway!
Do you think we muslims (girls especailly) will survive out there...if we were given the freedom to choose our own spouse?...
I dont think soo....what are parents for?...
They want the best for us right?....We girls are 'Aamanat' to our parents...and its our parents duty to look after us...
Until someone comes and claims the 'Aamanat' away...
I dont see any big deal in arrange marraiges!...72% of the ararnge marraiges work whereas 84% of love marraiges end in disaster...
And please dont say that a girl is like 'meat' just standing their and getting veiwed!
This is rediciolous....Rishte for girls are a symbol of proudness that she will be chosen...etc..
We girls have a value, a pricelss value...it depends on the reputation of the girl and the background for the rishte to go on....if something is missing...bad luck!
I think parents do the right thing...Im not saying that love marraige is totally out of the question but i prefer arranged!
Salaam,
Aashi I don’t want to come down as being rude, because I personally am indifferent to both types, I strongly believe that realistically both forms require lots of effort and much contemplation, however it should be noted arranged marriages are not all that peachy anymore sadly. And I was just wondering where did you get your stats for the success rate of both types of marriages, what’s the source for that percentile?
[quote]
Originally posted by Aashi:
We girls are 'Aamanat' to our parents...and its our parents duty to look after us...
Until someone comes and claims the 'Aamanat' away...
And please dont say that a girl is like 'meat' just standing their and getting veiwed!
This is rediciolous....Rishte for girls are a symbol of proudness that she will be chosen...etc..
We girls have a value, a pricelss value...
[/quote]
Of course girls aren't a piece of meat! What ridiculous thinking! Meat lived once, had will, desires, needs.
Girls don't, they are inanimate objects, "sold" and "parcelled" from the parents to the husband.
You're my girl
And that's all right
If you sting me
I won't mind
- Deftones
