rishtas

Lifestyle Relationships
1

One aspect of our culture that truly frustrates me is how rishtas are made. Guys family comes over to see girls family, judges girl like she’s a piece of meat, and then moves on to another house and another girl. Best girl gets the guy. My mother told me something once that got me even further frustrated : a girl should accept her first rishta because rishtey roz nahin aate (proposals dont come everyday). I mean, why not just let girls and guys seek themselves out? As long as in the end the couple has the consent of the parents/guardians, I dont see anything wrong with love marriages and I frankly hate arranged marriages.

I dont know - maybe I’m making a big deal out of this and maybe my stupid bio assignment has me insanely bored. What do you guys think?

And while i’m on the subject, I ought to share something that is going on in my life that perhaps I’m making too big deal of but still…I feel like sharing. A particular arab guy at my college has been told a lot about me by my wonderful friends and my friends, I just found out today, have gone so far as to persuade him that I’d make a perfect wife for him. Yeah I know. These people are south americans, they’re not even Pakis and they’re not even related to me and they’re proceeding to arrange my rishta!!! And the worst thing is, they’re not kidding. You may imagine how uncomfortable I’m feeling right now. So now this guy wants to meet me and I want to meet him, but I really dont feel like being sized up like i’m a piece of meat. So I dont know whehter I’ll meet him tomorrow or not. Perhaps I will, perhaps not. As is evident, I have no experience in relationships - never had a boyfriend cuz I never believed in dating. Still dont. It would be cool to be friends with this guy but i’m soooooo nervous!

2

Dear Gurya !

Be careful with Arab guy they like to keep 3/4 wives its a norm in Middle East. And I am sure you being Pakistani wont want a sotan on you do you?

3

Is it any better when guys hang out in colleges, oogling girls based on physical characterisics, and choosing one that they like? And is it better when girls dress up and try to look good just so they attract guys attention, and get the ‘best one’, preferably one with the fastest car, coolest looks and what not? And 9 out of 10 times, dont girls fall for the first guy that asks them out? And 9 out of 10 times, dont guys fall for the first girl they see?

Now whats the difference between the above scenarios and the arranged marriage concept where a guys family comes over and sees the girl, and moves on if they dont like what they see?

The procedure involved in arranged marriages(that you hate) is identical in theory to the one involved in guys and girls doing it on their own(which you like). I dont have a problem with either. However, the results have been consistently different in both cases. Arranged marriages have always had a higher success percentage, because of a variety of reasons. Love marriages are much more prone to failure, because 99% of the time, they are based on extremely superficial factors (car, diamond ring, bust size etc).

Guys and girls can make their own choices for themselves, but they have to demonstrate some sanity in their choices, by basing them on logical reasons. “Beautiful Green eyes” is not a logical reason.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

4

HEY what are you people saying about "arabs". I am a arab

5

[quote]
Originally posted by Akif:
I dont have a problem with either. However, the results have been consistently different in both cases. Arranged marriages have always had a higher success percentage, because of a variety of reasons. Love marriages are much more prone to failure, because 99% of the time, they are based on extremely superficial factors (car, diamond ring, bust size etc).
[/quote]

Akif....please elaborate on the "variety of reasons" that you mention above.

6

I really don't understand the big deal about guys coming over to see the girl.. I mean HELLO he has to see you in person to be able to decide whether he wants to get married to you and last time I checked there were no police-lineup type of one way mirrors in between so YOU can also see him walk and talk and size him up as a piece of meat and decide.

There is No Spoon

7

PA I think it's disgusting......we should at least have the decency not to carry a clipboard and score cards whilst we judge the contenders...I for one have done away with such barbarous and uncouth methods of letting the lucky girl know.

Now a simple hand held personal organizer and a rapid shake of the head will suffice. or alternatively I’ll lick my lips if pleased with the specimen.

All in jest people.

It's all natural honey...you can touch but if you break it you buy it.

8

The way vast majority of arranged marriages are done with the whole tea trip are disrespectful to the girl in sense, but I think that can be altered if its done with proper etiquette, for instance don’t announce to the whole kandan (sp) that your going to seek a girl instead keep the notion within the immediate family hence if it does not work out than this way there are less rumors and all the talk about why it didn’t work out. Also girls are given just as meaningful and honorable rights in Islam when it comes to marriage if you feel like the method that is being used to court you into marriage is wrong and disrespectful than speak to your parents or least your mother and tell her that you wish to have proper and equal say as well, as granted to you. This way the guy is not solely being the decision maker but you are as well.

As far as finding someone on your own its feasible and in some cases people have married individuals who are far more better morally and religiously sound than what their parents had in mind, but it takes a lot more effort per say, for instance you can’t just listen to your heart you have to be the judge meaning are his/her parents as well as yours going to be ok with this marriage, so many aspects that have to be looked into and so many emotions that have to be analyzed.

Ok I just have to point this out Akif and I do respect your input but I beg to differ on this comment you made
“Love marriages are much more prone to failure, because 99% of the time, they are based on extremely superficial factors (car, diamond ring, bust size etc)”

Sadly that is true however a lot more arranged marriages these days are made based on the dowry and what goodies that come along with it, so as far as “love marriages” being materialistic that’s baloney they both are its based on the character of a person to decide whether they chose to be with some because they are good for them or based on the notion that if they well provide from them a round trip or the lavishes of life. Lets see will all of what comes with dowry really be all that necessary or be the answer of a successful marriage, umm I think not nor will be the things that I suppose that come with a love marriage i.e. a diamond ring .

9

I didn't meet him , again. I partially chickened out and partially by the time i was done with some important work, it was already time for his class. So I'm kind of relieved.

I just want to make one thing clear...this issue that i'm facing is not an arranged marriage in that my parents aren't involved. In fact, they have no idea. Its my friends who are proceeding to put marriage ideas into this guys head and from what I hear, he's liking it. I've seen him, he's seen me. We haven't talked yet. I just dont want things to lead to marriage and one part of me says that if I befriend him knowing that he might be expecting something more than just friendship, I might be acting as a player i guess. Which I'm not. So I dont know what to do... and yes, the whole sotan thing has me worried too. I dont want to be his second or third or fourth! Kash, why can't I meet nice Pakistani guys - the whole problem would be solved, if I could meet a decent Pakistani guy!

10

P-

Why do u even care for a Paki guy? What's so special about paki guys?

It looks like you're still in undergrad, for crying out loud concentrate on your studies and just have some fun. Marriage! that's such a lame concept.

11

Akif....please elaborate on the "variety of reasons" that you mention above.

Muzna....there are a variety of reasons, though not all might be logical. But those who give importance to the concept of a 'family' tend to disregard those occasional illogical reasons, since they are far and few to begin with.

For one, arranged marriages ensure family unity. They also ensure, for the most part, reliability of the information received about both the parties, before marriage. Next, because of deep family involvement, while problems are easy to come by, they are easier to resolve as well. Furthermore, because of the fear of 'badnaami' (and this is one of those illogical ones), divorces are rarely considered as an option.

Not all reasons make sense, and not all are right, but in the end, its the family unit that takes precedence over anything else. Once married, its wrong to look for individual satisfaction, or individual achievements, or personal goals. You have to tie it all to your family, and take steps that will be best for your family as a unit, not just for you. And arranged marriages facilitate this concept to a large degree. Not that love marriages cannot facilitate it, but the percentage is definitely a lot lower.

[quote]
Originally posted by belle:
Sadly that is true however a lot more arranged marriages these days are made based on the dowry and what goodies that come along with it, so as far as “love marriages” being materialistic that’s baloney they both are its based on the character of a person to decide whether they chose to be with some because they are good for them or based on the notion that if they well provide from them a round trip or the lavishes of life.
[/quote]

Firstly, I dont disagree with either concepts. Both arranged and love marriages have their pros and cons. However, the success rate that I cited was based on statistics from the subcontinental culture, since that is the only place where you can make a fair comparison between the two. You will not find arranged marriages in the west.

Arranged marriages conducted in Pakistan rely less and less every day on stuff like the size of dowries and the model of a car. The trend has changed, and attitudes have changed a lot over the past couple of decades. And alongwith that, so has changed the way people approach arranged marriages. Arranged marriages are not strict matches made by parents that the kids have to abide by. They are matches scoped out by parents, and presented to their kids for approval. So in a way, the final say still lies with the kids. The difference here is, that the entire family is happy with it, rather than just the two. And frankly, if you keep our culture in mind, you will have to be wary of the feelings of your immediate family, unless you are carefree about that, and are willing to live a seperate life, without any concern for their feelings.

This is just a testament to the kind of social setup we have in Pakistan...not about rights or wrongs.

12

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/nook.gif

and wht exactly is ur point kaki-PCG…itz ur problem and ur bringing in our culture and traditionz…i don’t c any link between ur problem and arranged marriage thingie…further wht kind of friendz do u have, who are going around finding people 4 u to marry…and like u said these are not pakistani ppl then y ur bringing in pakistani aspect when it doesn’t have anything to do with pakistan…

further itz ur fault aswell…y didn’t u stop ur friendz from doing all this?..y didn’t u ask them not to go around and say all this BS?..don’t u have any say in all this?..ur acting like a helpless person…very hi sad…

aur yeh kitnay sharam ki baat hai…college jatay hein perhnay aur hota yeh hai…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/nook.gif

…

God bless u all…

DerVaisH

muhabatein theen kabhi apne dermian kitni…
bicha gaye hai anna hum mein doorian kitni…
abhi to toota hai dil hi teri judai mein…
girein gi hum pe abhi aur bijlian kitni…

13

Once you go Pak
you never go back…

..hmm try it with an Austrian accent and it might actually rhyme!

coughs … ahem..

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smooth.gif

There is No Spoon

14

[quote]
Next, because of deep family involvement, while problems are easy to come by, they are easier to resolve as well .... And arranged marriages facilitate this concept to a large degree. Not that love marriages cannot facilitate it, but the percentage is definitely a lot lower.
[/quote]

Akif yar, do you really believe in this ****? No, really.

I know I don't.

Whether it's love marriage or an arranged one, a lot depends on the chances and the person that you are. For some, one works and for other, the other one. And in many people's cases, either one of them can work. None is really a preferred way, it depends more on how much role do you play on your end and the chances. Deep family involvement can as much be a problem as a source of resolve - it, again, depends.

Generalizations are generalizations, they are only good when they are least selective.

Post-marital problems can arise without their having anything to do with how the marriage occured at the first place, and they can also arise their having a lot to do with it as well, but that holds true in either case (Love vs Arrange marriages). I don't think there is anything of substantiality as a lower or higher rate of failure - it may just seems like that because of a person's own preferences.

15

Yes Roman, I do believe in it, and you can call me old-fashioned for it

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Regarding the low and high rates, I think the statistics prove that adequately. The divorce rate in Pakistan, where arranged marriages are more common, is less than 5%. Compare that to the US, where love marriages are the way to go, and the divorce rate tops 50%.

There are several reasons why divorce is never considered as an option in Pakistan, and the biggest, I believe, is family intervention, which is derived from arranged marriages of course. Other than that, people shy away from a divorce because a divorced woman does not have much of a future in Pakistan, because its not economically viable for her, and because of religious reasons. But all these reasons hold true for women only. So men shouldnt really have a problem giving a divorce, if it goes that far. So why dont we see that? I feel it is because of the family involvement that I mentioned before. So basically, even if other factors (economic etc) are taken care of, divorce rate still holds down.

Arranged marriages are not a ‘preference’ for me. I dont have a problem with either. Both are equally good, so long as they work well in the long run. And well, statistics show that love marriages routinely fail, though that shouldnt stop people from falling in love

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

16

[quote]
Originally posted by Akif:
** The divorce rate in Pakistan, where arranged marriages are more common, is less than 5%. **
[/quote]

Hain, hain, hain ... oye! where are you getting your statistics from? Jaldi say batao!

17

Hey what's this all about sticking to your OWN culture? Once you go Pak you don't go back? Man this is not a way a Muslim should speak, I am a MUSLIM I am not Pakistani but my fiancee is and we are just perfect. Familles are great and we are great, so if anyone thinks that you must marry a person of the same culture for it to work then you are wrong. Man I am getting sick of hearing this. I am not an Arab but, girl you said you don't want to be his 3rd or 4th or what ever, what makes you think that ALL Arabs are the same, what makes you think there isn't any Pakistanis who have more then one wife either. Islam encourages marriages from different backgrounds and well you people here sound soo racist, and young lady, if you make your friends set up this whole thing, then what's the difference between this and your parents setting it up?

18

*There are several reasons why divorce is never considered as an option in Pakistan, and the biggest, I believe, is family intervention, which is derived from arranged marriages of course. *

What is wrong with divorce? 5% sounds like an extremely low number to me.
Just because there are social pressures and family interventions, incompatible couple should stick together and ruin their lives?
I have seen women and men in Pakistan who sacrifice their individuality because of these pressures. I say more power to those who are not willing to compromise with sharabi kababi husbands and rangeeli wives.

19

Dahling PCG-

You’re confused, maybe u don’t realize it but u don’t need to drag in religion, culture, arranged marriages, pakistan, racism, pologamy … and blaspheme them all.

You seem to find this idea of meeting a guy and getting to know him, if so do it. You only answer to yourself and to God. Do what you think is right, we’re prone to give you bad advice.

Keep in mind that you never end up buying the first car that you test drive. Happy test driving!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

20

I think the statistics prove that adequately. The divorce rate in Pakistan, where arranged marriages are more common, is less than 5%. Compare that to the US, where love marriages are the way to go, and the divorce rate tops 50%.

Akif,

Why are you comparing US and Pakistan? You do know that there are huge differences in cultural dynamics that make it almost impossible to compare something like this that's so differently practiced in both societies.

Take your example, divorce. Divorce is looked upon differently in Pakistan than it is in US. It is not looked down upon as much in US as it is in Pakistan. That makes a big difference, which has nothing to do with how the marriage actually occured.

I know some Americans who got hooked up via their family members and got married later on (That'd be American version of arranged marriage). Now, for those couples getting divorce has nothing to do with how they got hooked up. If any one of them gets divorce, it would have no bearing whatsover how bad it will look on them when they'll be out on the search for an other prospective spouse. Of course, it's the same way with those couples who had the so called love marriage. You cannot use stats for comparative conclusiveness (ok, I just said something that I have no idea what the **** I mean by that) unless you have accounted for all the respective, comparative factors as well.

However, same case scenario would be different in Pakistan, mainly because 'divorce' itself has different connotations attached to it.

BTW, we are talking about Love vs Arranged marriages. Why are you not comparing Love vs Arranged marriages WITHIN Pakistani society?