Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

A good article in Friday-times of Pakistan categorically showing how wrong Reza Aslan was intellectually on his recent debate at CNN.. the article says that given the data, Aslan was guilty of conjuring the same simplistic generalisations that he was countering in the interview.

. Self-defeating extremes ‹ The Friday Times

Self-defeating extremes

**Kunwar Khuldune Shahid**](http://www.thefridaytimes.com/tft/author/kunwar-khuldune-shahid/)

TFT Issue: 10 Oct 2014
In a widely acclaimed CNN appearance, academic Reza Aslan vociferously argued against seeing the Muslim world as one big monolith. Kunwar Khuldune Shahid sounds a strong note of dissent
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Reza Aslan

[HR][/HR]
When Reza Aslan, highly acclaimed scholar of religions, was being interviewed by a CNN team last week, to comment on renowned satirist and TV show host Bill Maher’s comments on Islam, a familiar vacuum bulged out from the footage that went viral on social media. The vacuum is hogged by bigotry and apologia, on either flank, and becomes conspicuous every time Islam is being discussed thousands of miles away from any relevant proximity of the Muslim world. The two self-defeating extremes have been aggravating the Islamist predicament since it metamorphosed into a global existential crisis 13 years ago.
The blatantly ignorant CNN team was masterfully called out for their anti-Muslim bigotry, which was evident by rhetorical questions like ‘Does Islam promote violence?’ The CNN hosts didn’t pose a challenge worthy of Aslan’s religious savoir-faire. This allowed him to meticulously disguise his religious apologia, while the CNN team was left with quite a few dozen eggs on their faces.
Neither the hosts nor the guest, however, brought any meaningful answers to fill the gaping vacuum.
Most discussions ostensibly designed to solve the Islamist puzzle around the globe seem to be hogged by two extremes:
Anti-Muslim bigots who claim that Islam is the root of most – if not all – evil in the world
OR
Religious apologists who assert that there’s nothing wrong with Islam or the Muslim countries at all that warrants special mentions of religion or the religious identity of the countries where most human rights violations are being witnessed.
Both extremes were evident in the five-minute footage.

Bill Maher

Bill Maher’s assertions that led to the interview were two-fold. First of all the fact that if significant numbers of Muslims endorse Islamism, Sharia law and extreme punishments – as endorsed by a Pew survey in 2013 which says that around 75-80% of the Muslim world wants Sharia law with stoning, lashing, etc. – then they have “too much in common with ISIS.”
Secondly, Maher cited the fact that 91% of women in Egypt and 98% in Somalia have undergone female genital mutilation (FGM) to showcase mistreatment of women in the Muslim world.
Aslan called FGM an “African problem”, and not an “Islamic problem” with Eritrea (89%) and Ethiopia (63%) – both Christian majority countries – vindicating that it isn’t an exclusively Muslim problem.
While it is true that FGM primarily prevails in Africa, but Yemen (23%) and Iraq (8%, Kurdistan 72%) also depict the criminal trend in the Middle East. By dubbing it an exclusively “African problem”, Aslan is guilty of conjuring the same simplistic generalisations that he was countering in the interview.
When 2 million women in Indonesia have their clitorises cut every year and 60-90% Malay women undergo female circumcision, it obviously isn’t just an ‘African problem’. Not after Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) with 40 million followers in Indonesia has given a fatwa in favour of FGM and the fact that 82% Malaysian Muslim women claim that it’s a religious obligation.
Even though seven of the eight countries with the highest FGM percentages are African Muslim countries, Eritrea and Ethiopia prove that it’s not an exclusively Muslim issue, while Indonesia and Malaysia attest that it’s not an exclusively African issue either. Not to mention the fact that the 91% in Egypt can’t be put down to ‘African tribal culture’, with the Muslim Brotherhood wholeheartedly endorsing FGM.
Aslan, like many others who vie to deflect attention away from women’s suppression in the Muslim world, pointed out that Muslims have ‘elected seven female heads of state’ while the US has none, completely ignoring the fact that Benazir Bhutto, Megawati Sukarnoputri, Begum Khaleda Zia and Sheikh Hasina Wajed became heads as a part of politics of kinship, while both Atifete Jahjaga and Tansu Çiller were elected in constitutionally secular states with Mame Madior Boye and Roza Otunbayeva being appointed and not elected.
In any case if electing female state heads mythicises women’s suppression in the Muslim world then the Bhuttos, Asif Ali Zardari, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, and other Pakistani heads of state belonging to Shia community, mythicise the ongoing Shia genocide in the country.Women are generally more supressed in most Muslim countries
How hard is it to acknowledge a simple fact that women are generally more supressed in *most *Muslim countries?
The World Economic Forum’s recent Gender Gap reports highlights that 17 of the 20 at the bottom of the gender gap rankings, 20 of the 28 with the biggest literacy gaps and 22 of the 27 countries with women being less than one-third of the adult workforce are all Muslim countries. No, the scathing stats don’t represent *all *women in *all *Muslim countries, but they do represent *most *women in *most *Muslim countries.
It is absurd to tout Indonesia, with FGM and virginity tests galore, as examples of countries where women aren’t supressed. And it is intellectually dishonest to claim that Saudi Arabia and Iran are the exceptions, when Turkey has for decades been the obvious exception to the generally conservative Muslim world.
Lumping Turkey together with Iran or Pakistan as examples of Muslim countries, without acknowledging the secularity or Islamisation of their constitutions, adds to the aforementioned vacuum of solutions to human rights abuse in the Muslim countries. The fact that the countries tend to get more extreme as they move towards Islamisation or adopt Sharia law, quite obviously suggests that you cannot treat Saudi Arabia or Iran as just individual cases that have got nothing to do with Islam. Not after multiple surveys showcase that the overwhelming majority of Muslims support Sharia law with its extreme punishments.
Islamists definitely do not represent all Muslims, but the majority of the Muslims endorse the ideology and jurisprudence that makes the Islam of Saudi Arabia, Iran, Isis, al-Qaeda, TTP, Boko Haram, extremist and outmoded.
Highlighting Budhist extremism in Myanmar to somehow counterbalance Islamist terrorism, while completely ignoring the disparity in prevalence and ideological support, is exactly why militant Islam is flourishing. Because those that aren’t anti-Muslim bigots, are touting Islamic extremism as just another case of religious interpretation gone wrong, completely sidelining the fact that Islamic ‘misinterpretation’ outdoes the extremism from all other religions combined – and by some margin.
That Turkey’s pluralism is as representative of the Muslim world as Saudi Arabia and Iran, would only be a serious assertion when at least half of the Muslim world endorses tolerant ideals and not primitive laws. As things stand the odds are that one would be lynched by a mob over charges of blasphemy for suggesting anything that contradicts Islamic beliefs, in *most *Muslim countries.
The vacuum awaiting practicable solutions to the Islamic world would be filled by first acknowledging that extremism is a common problem in *most *Muslim countries. As things stand, the anti-Muslim bigots and Islamic apologists are wasting a lot of intellectual space and innocent lives, in bigoted rhetoric and precarious denial, respectively.
[HR][/HR]

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well…interesting read

Peace phoenixdesi

That is not a good article … it is poor.

  1. First point that KK Shahid is making is that the CNN interview like Bill Maher’s interview was bipolar - apologia vs bigotry. Here a case is being made against Reza for being an apologetic and the author wishes to refute his position not with silly remarks - but with data and facts. So let’s analyse the article carefully to see how KK Shahid is anti-Islamic and wants his criticism to stick better than the bigots … They are just anti-Muslim - but Shahid is anti-Islam.

  2. He wants to bring up the topic of the Islamist calling it a 13 year old global existential crisis. What he fails to note is how this Islamist movement started. It is the love child of the covert and inhumane practices of Western forces. However, that detail evades KK Shahid.

  3. Next KK Shahid accuses Reza of being a covert religious apologetic - that is nonsense. If anyone knows Aslan - you will know that he is an academic. He is not a political scientist yet he gets called in to discuss such matters. His views about Islam are far from orthodox … and he is a fully integrated Western ideal who calls himself a Muslim. His stance if anything is anti-conflict and his insight together with people like Khalid Blankinship know very well what is happening around the world. They travel and see places … Apologetics is not wrong if it is done in truth or sincerity and mostly it is done to quell conflict and bring back discussion … that is what civilisation means … KK Shahid however wants to retain a conflict. He wants Islam to be viewed as a bad thing.

  4. Again KK Shahid makes his position clear in that line just above Bill Maher’s picture … He feels that quote, “most human rights violations” are happening in the Muslim countries and he wants to blame “Islam and Muslims” for it … Now I am not being apologetic … but let’s see if a case is being developed at all … rather we will see that the very things raised by the ‘bigots’ will be raised again by KK Shahid but this time he will present some facts and figures to support their claim - that he takes credit for …

  5. Shari’ah law - KK Shahid seems to agree with the position that to support “Islamism, Shari’ah law and extreme punishments” and “stoning and lashing” leads to “too much in common with ISIS” … Reza made the claim that many Muslim countries do not have such punishments and KK Shahid has taken offense to that quoting that 75-80% of the Muslim world wants Shari’ah law.

Now here is the major problem in the article.

First of all - we should recognise that Shari’ah is about justice. KK Shahid would hate to admit this rather he would deny it … But that is a simple fact … it is about justice … So how can an order that is about justice be unjust? Answer: It can’t - rather the way it is implemented must be questioned. If there is no justice then one must constantly ask oneself are we really implementing the Shari’ah properly?

Shari’ah is about not taking interest … I believe this to be a just position. Who can argue against that? We can see interest is the cause for major issues in economy. Also, taxation in Shari’ah is on savings in the main will allowance to some degree on income, by taxings savings the system encourages
spending and keep the economy vibrant. Shari’ah is about giving to charity as a matter of course … it’s system is designed to eliminate bottom line poverty. It works … it has done for many hundred years, tried and tested - but abandoned.

Hadd punishment should be very rare - those place who exercise hadd without the fully level of enquiry are creating an injustice … when done properly hadd will be virtually non-existent coupled with the ethos in society to learn and be kind to each other - we will not need to exercise the laws that require lashes and stoning.

ISIS on the other hand does not exercise punishment - not through a trial in court cases … they exercise punishment wherever they are by individuals and they do so for the camera making political statements …

Here is the link to the open letter to ISIS that Shamraz posted earlier … Open Letter to Baghdadi | English
I sincerely believe KK Shahid should read this …

  1. FGM - KK Shahid wants to refute Aslan on the idea that “FGM is not a Muslim issue” … he already agrees that it is done in Africa, but he gives two other countries to support his case outside Africa in some way to suggest that it is not an African problem … Yes, but by doing that he cannot also then suggest that it really is a Muslim or Islamic problem … For it to be an Islamic issue I urge KK Shahid to take that out of Islamic scripture that we support FGM … if he can’t then by giving the examples of majority in this country or that is irrelevant. FGM is said to be an issue … I am going to be totally truthful about this … how the hell do we know? I have no idea about what is being done to female genitalia and neither does anyone else and data in this matter can be easily conjured up … there is no way to verify the data … absolutely none. Medical records are private and such report in my are spurious. Islam definitely does not condone it and I will like to question where such data is coming from and if they have the means to collect such data then why can’t they also collect the reasons people have for doing this … If these things are cultural then for sure people are doing it to themselves … so it is an education issue and not an oppression issue … People are not being taken against their will and mutilated … babies could be taken by their parents much in a way we do male circumcision … both are effectively mutilating the body - one is sanctioned by Islam (male) one is not (female) - the one that is not sanctioned by Islam causes harm … A point to note!

  2. The fatwa in Indonesia regarding FGM is for its permissibility and for it to be done in a certain way which does not remove the organ but places a cut to reduce the sensation but not totally eliminating it. It is generally held neither as an obligation nor forbidden. However, the statistic given about 82% Indonesian women thinking it is an obligation is a stupid one … the people to ask are the ulema not the general populous. FGM Fatwa as far as I know in Indonesia is less of a thing that is required by people - if they so choose to do so - it needn’t be done … the fatwa was issued to prevent the policy makers from making it illegal … This is a cultural matter with an Islamic bearing on permissibility … (muba) not duty (sunnah, wajib or fard) … The biggest Western outcry about this is the voice of feminism … the matter is that women in these places are the ones who most habitually support this practice.

  3. Regarding matters of female leadership - suppression of women … I actually give this round to KK Shahid … I agree that female leadership has no bearing on treatment of women … however, there is a subtlety that KK Shahid is ignoring or has missed. Women are suppressed everywhere - by adopting a Western way of life we are not going to make their lives better … It would be out of the pot and into the frying pan … The only society that dealt properly with women was that ancient society that lasted but forty or fifty years at the time of RasoolAllah (SAW) … Nothing more needs to be said about that …

  4. Next KK Shahid accuses Reza in not so many words of not recognising the secular contribution to Muslim countries … I can’t accept that … first of all there is not correlation that can be measured to secularisation and secondly Reza Aslan is very much a secular person.

  5. Next … all those in the list that KK Shahid has mentioned Saudi, Iran, Boko Haram, TTP and Al-Qaeda - as previously determined in another thread amount to less than 6% of the Muslim in the world.

  6. KK Shahid thinks that Saudi and Iran have at least an equal say in Islam as Turkey … :nahi: … That is simply not true … purely by numbers and historical context … Turkey is the country where the Islamic state centred for the longest time in history. The last Caliphate was in Turkey … I think KK Shahid should take that in to consideration.

  7. Lastly … I shall not acknowledge due to my common sense and my own eyes that extremism is not a common problem for most Muslim countries … Extremism is far more prevalent in the West … ISIS is a despotic reaction a side-effect of Western intervention and interest in the region … that is simple … if we don’t recognise that problem we will end up looking internally and finding nothing … The only way forward is for Muslims to become more Islamic … not more violent (because that is being anti-Islamic) - we need more intellect - yes … but we should not throw out Islam - we should re-evaluate our understanding of it … It would be a huge error to throw out Islam on account of terrorists and extremism … Islam is the only ideology that can eradicate extremism … the reason why extremism has taken root is because we are leaving Islam … People like KK Shahid cannot see it - and that gives him the benefit of the doubt.

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well…interesting read

Peace Pyash

in today’s digital-based internet age, data has become like a condom…use it for your own purpose and then dump it…lets see what happened in this case…that atheist comedian maher and his companion had bunch of data points and survey results to bash islam and his followers …those survey results were pretty authentic and did show that majority of muslims have conservative viewpoint

in return, reza islan presented enough data in a very convincing tone during the CNN debate to refute such misconceptions and take a different position…

and now this article has many data points to show that what reza presented was also a bit one dimensional…

so what next?

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

so what next?

in the end, i think what we should do is to look beyond the data and focus on the merit of the idea...

for example in this debate started by a comedian called bill maher , my net conclusion is that no matter what data says, people's cultural values would always precede their religious beliefs...and therefore muslims from different cultural backgrounds will have different religious values....

one shd therefore always criticize extreme religious beliefs and practices but refrain from ascribing those extreme beliefs and practices to an entire people ...and that is exactly what comedian Maher and his likes have been doing..bash the whole religion on the name of liberalism...

muslims on the other hand should at least look inward to identify ideological shortcomings and stop repeating centuries old narratives ....a narrative that ISIS, taliban, Al qaeda are not one of us and they are not muslims is not going to fly anymore because guess what..for rest of the world they are muslims and the fact of the matter is that these groups are indeed muslims no matter what we say!!!

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well…interesting read

we need to pay attention to the bold portion below as well…for how long will we keep on ignoring some serious questions that our community faces today

Let’s be honest: Islam has a problem today – Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs](http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2014/10/11/lets-be-honest-islam-has-a-problem-today/)

10:46 PM ET

                                **[Let's be honest: Islam has a problem today](http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2014/10/11/lets-be-honest-islam-has-a-problem-today/)**

                 ***Watch "Fareed Zakaria GPS," Sundays at 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. ET on CNN***

By Fareed Zakaria
When television host Bill Maher declares on his weekly show that “the Muslim world…has too much in common with ISIS,” and the author, Sam Harris (a guest on his show) concurs, arguing that “Islam is the mother lode of bad ideas,” I understand why people get upset. Maher and Harris made crude simplifications and exaggerations.

And yet, they were also talking about something real. I know all the arguments against speaking of Islam as violent and reactionary. It is a vast world of 1.6 billion people. Places such as Indonesia and India have hundreds of millions of Muslims who don’t fit these caricatures. That’s why Maher and Harris are guilty of simplification and exaggeration.

But let’s be honest: Islam has a problem today…There is a cancer of extremism within Islam today. A small minority of Muslims celebrate violence and intolerance, and harbor deeply reactionary attitudes towards women and minorities. And while some moderates confront these extremists, not enough do so and the protests are not loud enough. How many mass rallies have been held against ISIS in the Arab world today?
But now the caveat, Islam today, is important.

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well…interesting read

As I said earlier in case it was missed … the cancer of extremism (is much smaller than what is portrayed) it does not happen in a vacuum, and the fact that Muslims are being pointed out as being the extremists is a result of political happenings in those regions rather than religious ones … It is a biproduct of world trade and interest in resource rich areas, which happen to be populated with Muslims … When strife continues in Muslim lands Muslims from other Muslim lands feel the pain and they get involved as well.

Islam is not the cause of the extremism - There are two causes:

  1. Muslims leaving Islamic adherence

  2. Unhealthy International interest in Muslim resource rich lands

  3. If Muslims returned to a better understanding of Islam then they would not be extreme

  4. If the West was less “Emperor’s New Clothes” on us then our brothers and sisters would not feel oppressed or hard done

Again, the problem is not in Islam … at all … It would be the biggest catastrophe to blame Islam for this … If we start to look internally we will find nothing … that would be another distraction. We have been looking internally far too long already … Muslims who are less Islamically equipped are being recruited in to organisation that have no patience and no sympathy and no compassion for any outsiders … The reason for that is because of some of the outsiders … it is not to do with the religion. To blame the religion would be a mistake … How many times should I say that???

Islam is about learning patience, accepting fate, being kind to those who show us unkindness, leaving the dunya, not chasing after it, or getting annoyed when others take it, Islam is about being God focused … not focused on political ventures … We don’t desire power - those who do are not being Islamic. Islam is pure and clean and is not about injustice … rather by even withstanding hardships is from Islam … Revenge is not an Islamic ideal … forgiveness is … Everyone knows this … extremists are in despair … their lives are messed up and those who join them are Muslims who have felt sorry for them and feel guilty for being in relative ease compared to them …

The whole problem needs to be analysed on a global scale … simple little things like the monetary system, making one currency stronger or weaker against another - is a subtle thing but that causes huge ramifications across countries … we should realise that … It is a hard pill to swallow … but that is the truth - not the stuff that Bill Maher et al come up with … and pseudo-academic progressive “Muslims” come up with …

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

I urge two things:

a) Learn your religion well - be critical thinkers - learn logic, learn how to detect sophistry, lies and propaganda
b) Become academically inclined in finding the truth - don't accept the first bit of news or the loudest

Always put before you the value system of Islam ... Mercy

Why else do we recite The Merciful in the bismillah every time we open the Qur'an? The Merciful ... We should be merciful too ... it is easy ... not hard ... the media are picking out ways to alienate Muslim from Muslim ...

No ... we should become one ummah - in fact embrace all people of other faiths too ... protect them from harm as well ... Be friendly to all ... don't let the hate speech separate us ... They will weaken the true ideology by crumbling us down in to smaller and smaller groups ... each pointing fingers at one another ... ISIS is a big problem for the West because of their tactic of hitting the resources ... that is the only reason why there is an interest in them ... they are NOT more extreme than anything else that is happening in the region - the media want us to believe that ... Syrian regime, Blackwater, NATO and other "Muslim" groups have all been just as bad ...

The West should stop making weapons, and stop selling them, stop drug trade, stop consuming so much ... then places like Saudi cannot buy the weapons, they cannot give them to groups like ISIS or Al-Qaeda ... It is common sense ... It really is ...

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

The only problem is that almost all 'Islamic' countries are 'developing'. Which also means that they have a lot of social problems.

Suppression of women in India is considered a social problem but same issue in Bangladesh is considered an 'Islamic' problem.

Go back 300 years. Islamic world was much much better in terms of Human Rights than the Western 'civilization'. Shall we blame Christianity for the deaths of millions of slaves who died during their voyages across Atlantic?

Reza's point was this: Yes, there are several social problems in almost all Muslim countries but they are not 'same' problems across all Muslim countries. If such problems are religious, then FGM, for example should exist in most, if not all, Muslim countries.

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

^
Agreed. Author of the article thought Reza was issuing apologia when in fact he was imploring the CNN morons to stop making sweeping and uneducated generalizations. He may have been wrong about FGM being an African problem (it's present throughout Asia and Africa, but widespread in Africa). But that's a bit pedantic.

What the author does a poor job at communicating is that Muslims do not espouse liberal values for the most part. The surveys that imply a preference for Sharia simply underscore that. The trend, now, is to treat anything conservative as problematic and something to "deal with", though the Author, Sam Harris, Bill Mahar, or whomever have a hard time articulating exactly what to do with this "problem".

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

Where in Asia is FGM a problem? As for I understand its an African cultural thing and predates Islam & practiced by Muslims, Christians and Jews from that region.

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

^Some Arabs, Kurds etc practise FGM as well..

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

The Shafi School of thought considers it as mandatory, AFAIK...so we're talking Malaysia and Inodnesia. They practice a mild form, not the...well... I won't go into the gory details, but it's akin to male circumcision in terms of the severity of the cut. In Malaysia, I understand they also have a ritualized "symbolic" circumcision that does not involve cutting.

In any case, I think it is fair to say that at some point it got absorbed into Muslim cultures, and that it did spread along those cultural lines. The practice survives in some Muslim countries, but I think that's totally tangential to the conservative nature of the countries. It's not strictly an African phenomena.

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

peace and chill bhai payash

the title of fareed zakaria message is misleading because when you read rest of his post, he is opposing the idea of bashing the whole community or a religion... he is rather inviting us for some self-introspection...and dont you think we have some heavy pockets of violent, extremist, extremely conservative, and toxic elements....for how long will we keep on saying that they are not one of us...because we know thy are one of us!

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

i have no idea what are you trying to say bhai payash? a lot of romantic thoughts...

we shd become one ummah? kaisay bhai? dont you know OIC HAS FAILED....that ummah notion is only good on paper bhai

**embrace people of of other faiths and protect from hararm? **what do you mean...matlab hai kay islam impose kar dein sab par.....we cannot even handle different sects in our own religion and you want to bring everyone under islam...and what is haram? those non-muslims are fine where they are

*ISIS is a big problem for the West because of their tactic of hitting the resources ... that is the only reason why there is an interest in them *...really? ISIS is not a problem for you..forget west? just give your opinion. will you finish them or ignore them...are they fitna or not?

The West should stop making weapons, and stop selling them....lol...allah aap ko haapy rikhay...kaya romantic notion hai....kabiee asia howa hai

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

just to be clear...no where in this thread i have said islam is the problem...i have actually said the opposite

I am saying that one shd not generalize...because remember people's cultural values always precede their religious beliefs...and therefore muslims from different cultural backgrounds will have different religious values....

and while one shd always criticize extreme religious beliefs and practices but he/she shd refrain from ascribing those extreme beliefs and practices to an entire people ...and that is exactly what comedian Maher and his likes have been doing..bash the whole religion on the name of liberalism...

muslims on the other hand should at least look inward to identify ideological shortcomings and stop repeating centuries old narratives ....a narrative that ISIS, taliban, Al qaeda are not one of us and they are not muslims is not going to fly anymore because guess what..for rest of the world they are muslims and the fact of the matter is that these groups are indeed muslims no matter what we say!!!

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

Brother I was stating the Islamic ideology ... when we say "that sort of thing is only good on paper" then we have rejected the "word" - and sought out answers from our own hearts and we will continue to create more problems for ourselves ... until we return to that paper.

Yes ISIS are a fitnah ... they create a premise for further alienation of Islam ... they give fuel to non-Muslims to demean Islam ... and Muslims are also singing along with the tunes of media machine ... ISIS are the symptom not the cause of the fitnah ...

Regarding weapons - let's start calling out the West to stop making them ... instead of trying to alter our faith.

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

Bill Maher, CNN and KK Shahid all think Islam is the problem

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

that i agree..and we need to push back on that narrative

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

peace psyah bhai

OK so ISIS are a weapon being used by west to humiliate and alienate muslims...ok theek hai..man liya

now lets look inward as well to see what are we doing in muslim world to feed such monsters

lets take the example of sauid arabia....our ideological center..let me copy from a recent article:

***"doesn’t Saudi Arabia do all this as well? Friday prayers in Riyadh and Jeddah are often followed by public decapitations. Over 50 people have literally lost their heads this year alone.

And Saudi Arabia, remember, is the self-styled role model for the ummah, or the nation of Islam.

******With their vast, unearned wealth, the Saudis have saturated most of the Muslim world with their Wahabi/Salafi version of a literalist Islam that makes no allowance for changing times or human frailty. It is this harsh strain that is fuelling much of the violence and turmoil that has shaken the Muslim world for the last quarter century, and tarnished the image of Islam.

***Now, the chickens are coming home to roost. After Al Qaeda, the franchise has morphed into groups like Jabhat al-Nusra in Syria, the Islamic State, and Boko Haram in Nigeria. Closer to home, the Taliban and several other militant gangs compete over how many innocent people they can slaughter"

Re: Reza Aslan was wrong on many fronts as well....interesting read

the fact of the matter is that

**"While **states struggle to stamp out this menace, the poison flows un*chec*ked from its Saudi source. Poorer Muslim countries like Pakistan are too beholden to Riyadh for aid and oil on deferred payment to object to the cash our madressahs and hard-line clerics get from public and private Arab sources.


***Many experts on the Middle East have repeatedly pointed out the nexus between the Saudis and the rise of jihadi violence. But the world has stood by silently because of Saudi oil, and its purchase of billions of dollars of arms from Western sources. This makes these weapons cheaper for the countries where they are manufactured, apart from generating vast profits made on spares and training"

***so dont we think we do need to look inward as well to root out extremism psyah bhai?