Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
Ok here we go with darse quran about surah 43,
43 surah az Zukhruf Ayah 19 To 25
43 Surah az Zukhruf Ayah 26 To 32
43 Surah az Zukhruf Ayah 33 To 56
43 Surah az Zukhruf Ayah 63 To 80
43 Surah az Zukhruf Ayah 81 To End
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
Ref: Quran 4:157
*Substitution Theory
*
Jews say that they killed Isa (as). They killed him not nor did they crucified him but
1) It appeared to them so. and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it (shakir)
2) but so it was made to appear to them. and those who differ therein are full of doubts (yousaf ali)
3) but it appeared so unto them and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof (pickthal)
So they claim to have killed Isa (as) but Allah (swt) tells us that he(as) was not killed by them in any way. though it was appeared to them as if this happened. now in case of popular belief of substitution, a man was replaced by Jesus (as) and was given his appearance, I have following issues with such belief:
1) As it is clear from the subject verse that the people who differ (Jews and christians) are in a state of doubt about it. if the Jews had actually killed a look-alike in front of them on the cross then there should not have been any doubt.
2) The verse talks about Isa (as) and there is no mention of any other person so the theory is based on pure conjecture
3) If the jews had killed the look-alike on the cross then according to them they had killed him and thus in accordance with following passage from their scripture, it became clear to them that Isa (as) (nauzubillah) was false prophet thus accursed since for them, they killed Isa (as).
"*And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree. His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance. (Deutronomy 21:22-23)
*
4) Who was the unfortunate person? there is lot of guess work in this regard.
5) Why not that person cried out that I am not the one you are looking for?
more later
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
Quran 4:159
*Before his Death
*
"And there is none among the People of the Book but will believe in it before his death; and on the Day of Resurrection, he (Jesus) shall be a witness against them"
In case ‘his death’ pertains to death of Jesus(as) and translate it as “And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him(Jesus(as)) before his(Jesus(as)) death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them”
In other words, before Jesus dies, every one of the people of the book will believe in him. So it is a sign of Jesus (as) not dead yet. But with this translation, we have a problem as it contradicts with other Quranic verses i.e.
Moreover, the last part of verse 4:159 says that “on the Day of Judgment, he (Jesus (as)) will be a witness against them”. So why would he be a witness against them if all the people of book will believe in him.
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
Thank you dear kchughtai. Yes, there occur contradcitions in the quran when people who interpret the quran do not take in to account different meanings of words and the interactive style of the quranic text to understand its proper context.
The main thing is that quran and the universe are complementary sources of information for us like a washing machine and its user manual or instruction booklet. Either of them is useless without the other because one cannot make proper sense of either of them on its own. This understanding of the quran and universe is missing from the ummah and main reason behind this is seperation of DEEN into its two separate components by opponents of deen.
Each time Allah sent any messenger to unite humanity in deen soon after the death of the prophet people who look forward to turning back to their old ways replace deen with two spheres known as religion and state. The rule over people is then divided between ruling classes and priestly classes. Thus people are rules by priests in the name of God and by kings in the name of country.
Today we call it separation between religion and state or in christian world church and state separation. In muslim world people are trying for separation between masjid and state. We have what is called religion v secularism situation. In islamic context it is islam v religion and state or islam v mullahism and ruling elite.
This was always the case even in time of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and even in time of our own final messenger.
Islam was always attacked from outside as well as from inside by claimants of islam. For example, the final prophet struggled very hard to bring about divine kingdom. Soon after his death some people turned things upside down back to absolute imperialism. Because the quran opposes imperialism, rulers brought about priestly class =mullaiyat and they misinterpreted the quran to get it out of their rulers way. Thus muslim brotherhood concept was turned back master slave relationship.
In order to misrepresent islam they had to replace islamic concepts with make beliefs and so we ended up with concepts of islam that we have today. All we have today is quranic text but no context. All information is there but it is muddled up so that it is not that easy to get original islam back from the quranic text.
This is what has been constantly reminded by odd sincere indiviualds through out times but most well known person who did this in india was sir seyyid ahmed khan.
The other person soon after him to remind us was allaama dr muhammad iqbal. Then it was muhammad ali jinnah the founder of pakistan and later alaama ghulam ahmed parwez.
We also have had some in between people like dr israr ahmed and dr muhammad tahir al qadri and various others.
This topic needs some more explanation but I will come with that later. meanwhile all the best.
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
As for death of jesus, it is self evident fact as to how the world works and how people live and die in this world and to claim anything against the way the world works makes it absurd. So the burden of proof rests with those who make such absurd claims.
The death of prophet jesus can be proven from the quran as well if we read verses like the ones as follow.
http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/3/144/default.htm
http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/5/75/default.htm
http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/5/117/
http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/7/25/default.htm
http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/15/48/default.htm
http://www.islamawakened.com//Quran/21/34/default.htm
These like verses can be looked at from various angles to prove the point.
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
Ref: Quran 4:157
*Substitution Theory * Jews say that they killed Isa (as). They killed him not nor did they crucified him but
1) It appeared to them so. and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it (shakir) 2) but so it was made to appear to them. and those who differ therein are full of doubts (yousaf ali) 3) but it appeared so unto them and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof (pickthal)
So they claim to have killed Isa (as) but Allah (swt) tells us that he(as) was not killed by them in any way. though it was appeared to them as if this happened. now in case of popular belief of substitution, a man was replaced by Jesus (as) and was given his appearance, I have following issues with such belief:
1) As it is clear from the subject verse that the people who differ (Jews and christians) are in a state of doubt about it. if the Jews had actually killed a look-alike in front of them on the cross then there should not have been any doubt.
2) The verse talks about Isa (as) and there is no mention of any other person so the theory is based on pure conjecture
3) If the jews had killed the look-alike on the cross then according to them they had killed him and thus in accordance with following passage from their scripture, it became clear to them that Isa (as) (nauzubillah) was false prophet thus accursed since for them, they killed Isa (as). "*And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree. His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance. (Deutronomy 21:22-23) * 4) Who was the unfortunate person? there is lot of guess work in this regard.
5) Why not that person cried out that I am not the one you are looking for?
more later
Peace kchughtai
You said 1) "...if the Jews had actually killed a look-alike in front of them on the cross then there should not have been any doubt"
How do you come by this conclusion? It's like saying if apples are green then pears are yellow ... you are missing a vital piece of information as to why they are in doubt ... that information is:
a) The close companions of Jesus fled -
b) Jesus appeared at a later time convincing his companions that he was unharmed and alive
c) The people on trial were allegedly Jesus and Barabas ... the first name of Barabas was Jesus ... Barabas means son of the father ... so who did they let go? Jesus Christ or Jesus Son of the Father?
If this is not enough to cloud the matter then there are things to consider Jesus was noted in apocrypha that someone else was killed in his place - namely the gospel of Barnabas. The statements made on the cross by the person who they believed was Jesus - such as "Eli Eli Lama Sabactani" which means "God, God why have you forsaken me?" that is not even a statement that a religious person can make let alone a prophet ...
2) You assertion that since no other person was named it is therefore made up ... that is not true ... there are various commentaries inside and outside Islamic scripture that assert the substitution theory.
3) Point number 3 is correct - it is true that had they believed it was Isa (AS) they would have left him there ... however if you read carefully the New Testament mentions that due to some insider help the person who they thought was Jesus (AS) his body was allowed to be taken in secret ... It is also possible that since they realised they blunder of killing someone else they wanted to get rid of the evidence quickly to ensure he was not discovered as "other than Jesus" and they didn't bury him ether - they stuck the body in a tomb which was overground in a cave ... NOT THE USUAL PRACTICE might I add ...
4) Who was the unfortunate person? Yes there is guess work and that what the verse refers to ... according to apocrypha it was Judas.
5) And he did cry out ... Read the passages at the time of the arrest ... whoever was captured denied being Jesus, but then probably due to guilt (for trying to betray Jesus) or probably due to protecting Jesus (if you hold that Judas actually didn't betray Jesus) he suffered the arrest and trial on his behalf ... Even the close companions rejected the man who was arrested ... why? Remember look into the passages and find out the truth within them ...
Also, during the arrest and interrogation the authorities who thought they had Jesus (AS) asked him ... who he was and if he was Jesus ... and he replied that "Even at this time The Son of Man is at the right hand of God" or he said something to that effect ... Which to means infers that he (the real Jesus) was taken into hiding before the arrest ... soon after his prayer on the mount where his hair was drenched in his sweat ...
Later on in the narrative he came back and showed himself ... he was with two angels ... I believe the account of the transfiguration is an important one also and I believe it is out of sequence with the whole story ... transfiguration means "change of face/appearance"
All of these add a lot in the direction of the official position of the mainstream Muslim belief of what happened.
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
Regarding your other question ... all of the people of the book must believe in him before he dies ...
a) This is only applicable for those who see him in his second coming
b) It is not a prophecy so much as it is a condition - that people of the book will not be forgiven if they don't accept the official view of him being a prophet of God. i.e. not a fake and not the begotten Son of God (auzdubillah).
c) The verse was in future tense at the time of revelation circa 1400 years ago which means he (Jesus (AS)) must have been alive at the time of revelation of this Qur'anic ayat.
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
Regarding your other question ... all of the people of the book must believe in him before he dies ...
a) This is only applicable for those who see him in his second coming
That is an assertion on your part
004.159
YUSUFALI: And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe ..
PICKTHAL: There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe ..
SHAKIR: And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes ...
So everyone of the people of book
[quote]
b) It is not a prophecy so much as it is a condition - that people of the book will not be forgiven if they don't accept the official view of him being a prophet of God. i.e. not a fake and not the begotten Son of God (auzdubillah).
c) The verse was in future tense at the time of revelation circa 1400 years ago which means he (Jesus (AS)) must have been alive at the time of revelation of this Qur'anic ayat.
[/QUOTE]
Certainly, verse is in future (Muzareh) tense but that doesn't provide proof on Jesus (as) being alive. I have already pointed out the flaw in the popular interpretation of this verse. Pls allow me to provide my version.
This verse should be understood in context to what has been said in the verse 4:157. In that verse, it is stated the differing parties (jews and christians) are following a conjecture and both believe that Jesus(as) was killed by the Jews. So that is the commonality between them. now verse 4:159
" And there is none among the People of the Book but will believe in it (the common belief of Jesus killed at the hands of the jews) before his (pertains to each person of people of the book) death; and on the Day of Resurrection, he (Jesus) shall be a witness against them"
In this interpretation, the last part Jesus (as) being witness againt them fits fairly well
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
That is an assertion on your part 004.159 YUSUFALI: And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe .. PICKTHAL: There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe .. SHAKIR: And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes ...
So everyone of the people of book
Certainly, verse is in future (Muzareh) tense but that doesn't provide proof on Jesus (as) being alive. I have already pointed out the flaw in the popular interpretation of this verse. Pls allow me to provide my version. This verse should be understood in context to what has been said in the verse 4:157. In that verse, it is stated the differing parties (jews and christians) are following a conjecture and both believe that Jesus(as) was killed by the Jews. So that is the commonality between them. now verse 4:159
" And there is none among the People of the Book but will believe in it (the common belief of Jesus killed at the hands of the jews) before his (pertains to each person of people of the book) death; and on the Day of Resurrection, he (Jesus) shall be a witness against them"
In this interpretation, the last part Jesus (as) being witness againt them fits fairly well
The context is obtained from the whole section if you read a few ayahs back then you will see that it is far more important to believe he was a prophet, not God and not a falsifier ... which is the more crucial point than whether he died or not.
If the tense is future then he (AS) was not killed and has not died that is simple logic ...
your reasons for contradictions are not based on soundness either:
3:55 - those who reject faith will be anyone who disbelieves ... also even if it was for Jews - what is wrong for Jews to be around until the Day of Judgement? Is there a reason that you have to infer Jews will not be around on the Day of Judgement?
For the other point I have already answered that ... Verse 4:159 when it states " illalayu/minanna bihi qabla mawtihi" - the term illala means "but must" - it does not mean "but will" ...
"Must" means that they should be doing so, but "will" means that it will be happening ... besides why should Jesus (AS) be a witness AGAINST those who believe in him/it ? No rather he will be a witness against those who knew they had to believe in him, but failed to do so - hence the meaning of "must" is applicable not "will" ...
Also in this verse in the Arabic it speaks of the people in the collective ... why do you assume that there is a switch of tenses from collective to singular and then back to collective again? Especially when another individual is being spoken about? It is not the case ... the singulars in this verse refer to Jesus (AS) ...
Ahl-ul-Kitab is in jarr due to the min harf ... making it ahl-il-kitab ... This is jamma therefore the term is mo'annis (feminine) and the muzare is flanked with a laam ... denoting future definite.
Illa can also mean "except" so another translation which agrees with the original is ...
And none from the people of the Book will (get by) on Judgement Day without being testified against by him ... except those who will and have believed in him (as a true prophet)
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
:)
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
No prophet from an earlier times can come. Jews did not kill him, nor did they crucify Him. Keep in mind, the reason why jews, wanted to kill or crucify Jesus pbuh was because they used to believe, anyone who claims to be a Messiah and is killed or crucified can not be truthful in his claim.. and it was their tradition to make sure who is truthful in the claim. Since, they did not kill Him nor crucified Him, Allah says .. Allah raised him up ( raised his STATUS ), so this way, jews failed in their mission of crucifying him and to mock at him if he ever had been crucified.
Allah also says, 'it was made to appear to them as one crucified'. So, even if u think Allah put someone who was like Jesus pbuh on the cross and raised him up(though, this is very much debatable as well ) would not make sense.. because, to THEM, they killed him.. and therefore, they 'think' they killed him.. and therefore to remove this misconception, Allah says, Allah raised/elevated (his status) up.
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
^ Aoa Popat, it is good to see you here. :)
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
No prophet from an earlier times can come. Jews did not kill him, nor did they crucify Him. Keep in mind, the reason why jews, wanted to kill or crucify Jesus pbuh was because they used to believe, anyone who claims to be a Messiah and is killed or crucified can not be truthful in his claim.. and it was their tradition to make sure who is truthful in the claim. Since, they did not kill Him nor crucified Him, Allah says .. Allah raised him up ( raised his STATUS ), so this way, jews failed in their mission of crucifying him and to mock at him if he ever had been crucified. Allah also says, 'it was made to appear to them as one crucified'. So, even if u think Allah put someone who was like Jesus pbuh on the cross and raised him up(though, this is very much debatable as well ) would not make sense.. because, to THEM, they killed him.. and therefore, they 'think' they killed him.. and therefore to remove this misconception, Allah says, Allah raised/elevated (his status) up.
Allah (SWT) took Isa (AS) completely out of harms way ... Isa (AS) was not crucified and a few came to know that and there was a cover up ... the story was drenched in confusion thereafter. It was not meant for the Jews and Christians to realise they made a mistake until a prophet was born to other people. Even though the Jews could not even harm him, their intentions and actions led to them being blameworthy of murder (as though they killed him) ...
The Jewish scriptures are quite clear that the Messiah can't be harmed let alone be killed.
This is confirmed as per Qur'an:
They did not kill him, and they did not (even) crucify him
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
Peace,
The King Pilates ordered to take him in custody by mutual understanding with Jews and Christians. When one of them entered in a house to take Jesus in custody, at that moment Allah SWT raised him above the sky. (see post#3 reference from Qur'an).
Four canonical gospels / Anajeel-e-arba'a (All four Gospels) say King Pilate ordered Jesus to be crucified with a charge placed atop the cross (known as the titulus crucis) which read something along the lines of "King of the Jews", depending on the gospel account. (The titulus crucis is often written as INRI, the Latin acronym.) Having carried his own cross (according to John), Jesus was crucified on Golgotha. According to the Gospel of Luke, as he was crucified, Jesus said, "Father, forgive them; they know not what they do." As he hung on the cross, he was mocked by passers-by and given a drink of wine vinegar. According to the Gospel of John, he was visited by his mother and others; then his death was confirmed by a Roman soldier piercing his side with a spear (John 19:34).
According to Matthew[66] and Mark,[67] his last words were "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" (as pysah bhai explained) which is Aramaic for "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" (taken from Psalm 22);[68] according to John 19:30,[69] "It is finished"; and according to Luke 23:46,[70] "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit.
The above in the light of Qur'an wasn't even near to the truth because Hazrat Isa a.s. not killed nor crucified in fact He was raised alive above the sky. (please refer to post#22 - substitution theory)
Yes the question ticked among them after crucifying that if deceased was Jesus then where is their companion and if the deceased person is one of them then where is the Jesus? (for answer please refer post# 26). Details are available in 'Favaid-e-Usmaniyah'. (Please refer 4:157)
In Qur’an [3:55] word ‘matawafeeq’ singular ‘tuwaffi’ doesn’t mean ‘will kill you’ **or ‘killed*’ but here its mean ‘will take you’. Tawaffi (take as whole, give as whole) and **mout* (death, died, dead) are two different things. Here are more examples in accordance the Holy Qur’an:
Qur’an Chapter 16 Verse 111: On the Day when every soul will come disputing for itself, and every soul will be fully compensated for what it did, and they will not be wronged.
**
**Qur’an Chapter 39 Verse 42: Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that do not die [He takes] during their sleep. Then He keeps those for which He has decreed death and releases the others for a specified term. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.
In first quoted Surah, “wa tuwaffi kullo nafsi’n ma’ kasabt” refers to soul which will fully compensated, not death or dead. Same as in the second quoted verse: ‘tuwaffi’ **referred to ‘Anfus’ souls, and ‘Hiena Moutiha’ as ‘time of their death’, which clearly indicates that ‘tuwaffi’ and ‘mout’ **are two different things. (Reference: Favaid-e-Usmania)
Same example can be found in Chapter 3 verse 25 and Chapter 4 verse 15 where ‘tuwaffi, yatawaffi’ **is different from ‘mout' **(death)’.
Back to Chapter 4 verse 159: Eventually the Jews and Christian will believe that Hazrat Isa a.s. wasn’t killed nor crucified but was taken above the sky. At that time the people of scripture will believe in Him.
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
Jesus (AS) was protected from harm and from being shamed ... let alone from being killed ... It is a major problem to assert that he even went near the cross let alone was actually hung from it, even if it is claimed he did not die on it ... it would have still been humiliating to have been hung from it, given the crown of thorns to wear, drag the cross around the town, to be jeered at and insulted and interrogated ... all of this goes against the idea that he was saved ... what is left if all these things happen to someone?
No ... he was saved from it all ... if the raising to a high place was truly spiritual then truly none of these lowly things could been allowed to have been done on him. So even in the allegorical sense of the word "mutawafeeka" we cannot say that any stage of crucifixion took place on Jesus (AS) ... for sure there is no honour in being treated like a convict.
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
psyah bhai for your valuable comments/input. 
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
Jesus (AS) was protected from harm and from being shamed ... let alone from being killed ... It is a major problem to assert that he even went near the cross let alone was actually hung from it, even if it is claimed he did not die on it ... it would have still been humiliating to have been hung from it, given the crown of thorns to wear, drag the cross around the town, to be jeered at and insulted and interrogated ... all of this goes against the idea that he was saved ... what is left if all these things happen to someone?
No ... he was saved from it all ... if the raising to a high place was truly spiritual then truly none of these lowly things could been allowed to have been done on him. So even in the allegorical sense of the word "mutawafeeka" we cannot say that any stage of crucifixion took place on Jesus (AS) ... for sure there is no honour in being treated like a convict.
When our own prophet Muhammad (SAW) had to suffer at the hand of Meccans and the people of Taif, insulted, injured, mocked, stoned, thrown trash upon, etc. etc., then why is Hazrat Isa (AS) immune from it? Was Hazrat Isa (AS) of a higher status than Prophet Muhammad (SAW)? Why did Allah let Hazrat Muhammad (SAW) suffer to the extreme? Your logic would imply that Isa (AS) was dearer to Allah than prophet Muhammad (SAW).
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
When our own prophet Muhammad (SAW) had to suffer at the hand of Meccans and the people of Taif, insulted, injured, mocked, stoned, thrown trash upon, etc. etc., then why is Hazrat Isa (AS) immune from it? Was Hazrat Isa (AS) of a higher status than Prophet Muhammad (SAW)? Why did Allah let Hazrat Muhammad (SAW) suffer to the extreme? Your logic would imply that Isa (AS) was dearer to Allah than prophet Muhammad (SAW).
Peace brahmachari99
It is a good question.
First point that Muhammad (SAW) is the Mercy to the Worlds his facing hardship and then being merciful shows this ...
Secondly ... it was not his (SAW) sign that he would be protected ... in fact John the Baptist was slain - beheaded ... so it is not a requirement that ALL prophets would be protected from being killed or harmed ... however ... that was a sign amongst the signs of the Messiah. Isa (AS) could not be harmed. That is why the Jews killed all the prophets - they said if he is the Messiah we can't kill him and then if he does not die we'll follow him ... most of the prophets died like that ... but not Isa (AS) however they thought they did kill him ... Also, crucifixion is a horrible display most dishonored thing and this was not the condition of any prophet as far as I know or understand.
It is wrong to use your logic here that Allah saved Isa (AS) and not Muhammad (SAW) ... we have faith in all the messengers of Allah (SWT) and how Allah (SWT) Chose to pan out their lives.
Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.
are there ARABS also who think that ISA has died? or compare trials and tribulations of Prophets ? or question Quran AND hadith ? i am askin because they have the knowledge of Arabic ...
