Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

psyah · November 11, 2011, 10:07pm

Re: Return of Hazrat Isa A.S.

peace be on you,

I’m simply impressed how you would write just about anything just so your belief doesnt get hurt. Yes, i used Musa (AS)'s case and showed you how its not possible for a prophet to be in a group of a prophet who will come after him. If you see that hadith regarding Musa(AS) wanted to be in ummah of Muhammad PBUH, you will see that Allah said that you are before him and he will be after you and therefore, its not possible. Had it been possible for Jesus, it would have said it somewhere that the except for jesus, no other prophet can come or be a part of muslim ummah.

you’re drawing a lot of assumptions without backing up anything. I give u examples after examples in a hope that you will just ponder for sometime and just think about what im trying to say, but no, you’ve already decided to stick to what you believe in and continue to defend that belief without it having any solid proof.

You were never successful in giving me just one hadith which clearly shows that the same Jesus, which was sent to bani israel 2011 years ago, in Nazareth is the same Jesus that will come in the latter days.

you were never successful in providing me any hadith or quranic verse which clearly shows that Jesus was taken up to skies bodily by Allah.

You’re speculating that it will be the same Jesus who came 2011 years ago whose been given 2 different tasks.

A new non-law bearing prophet can be appointed given that hes a true follower of Islam, but old prophets cant come.

Problem with your belief is that , to keep the belief of Jesus second coming, you have to make sure u dont start believing something that the mullah’s islam doesnt allow.

you are a believer of someone who will come AFTER Muhammad PBUH , but dont want to say that u dont follow khatm e nabuwat literal meaning, and then you will go on and on to prove your point.

You are a believer of someone who will come AFTER muhammad pbuh but cannot accept the fact that Allah can appoint someone within the muslim ummah, therefore, to fill the gap of someone, you decided to keep Jesus alive.

You say no new non law bearing prophet can be appointed, but want Jesus to come back.. since, theres no concept of reincarnation in islam, you decided to believe that Jesus is still alive.. because once you believe he died, you will have no choice but to disregard 2 of your beliefs 1) no new prophet can come 2) Jesus died.

Please bro, dont just keep saying that i’m making weak arguments. I just want you to think outside of box, and not just keep believing what you have been always taught.

My points about the grouping of prophets, my point about how Musa (AS) was not granted the wish of being even a member of muslim ummah. To understand more about that hadith, i provided you 2 verses above about how prophetes are grouped. i.e : they can be in a party of a prophet prior to him but not after. All of these points you call weak points but to me are questions which require a lot of studying on that topic.

It seems to me that no matter how many examples i provide you from Quran or ahadith, you will always say that Jesus is an exception, and that just because Allah didnt allow that to happen before does not mean Allah cant do it with Jesus. Jesus has always been an ‘exception’ for you, no matter which verse of hadith is provided to you.

Go ahead, and take that literally too
It merely means that Allah will send a person a like of Isa (AS) , from heaven ( not literally from heaven, but means He will be a man of Allah. Descending does not mean literally coming down from sky ), and the angels represent the divine help He will bring with him. the rest is up to you, how ever you translate it.

ps: i have provided you not one, but many verses from Quran in favor of jesus(as) passing away, in another thread that we once talked in. I can provide you many verses again, but you will not avail from it since you will always take Jesus (AS) as exception , as if hes not an ordinary human but someone more than that.

I will end this post with this shair.

ghairat ki ja hai Isa(AS) zinda ho aasmaaN per
madfoon ho zameen mein, shaah e jahaan (saw) hamaara.

Peace Mr. Popat

You wrote this:

*“Abu Na`eem related in “Hulya” from Anas(ra)that the Holy Prophet pbuh said that Allāh revealed to Prophet Moses [SUP]as[/SUP] that I shall throw all those in hell who come to me in a state that they rejected Ahmad [SUP]sa[/SUP]. Prophet Moses(as) asked, O God, who is Ahmad? Allāh said that he is the best amongst all the creatures and I wrote his name on throne before the creation of heaven and earth and none of my creatures can enter Paradise unless they become member of his Ummah. ***Prophet Moses(as) requested that O God, appoint me a Prophet of this Ummah. Allāh said that their Prophet shall be from amongst them. Prophet Moses (as)again requested that then make me a member of this Ummah. Allāh said that you are before them and they shall be after you, but I shall join you in the House of My Majesty.” (Al-Khasaisul Kubra by Allamā Jalaluddin Al-Sayyuti; & Nashr-ut-Tīb Fī Zikr-un-Nabī Alhabib, by Ashraf Alī Thanvi)

**Now please note how in this narration there is no mention of “possibility” … that is your interpolation. You said this hadith makes it impossible for a person to be an ummati of a future generation … this is not how I view it. It could just as well mean that you (Musa (AS)) are before them to go to the House of My Majesty they will follow you … Those who go before are leaders of those who follow … Allah (SWT) may be saying to Musa (AS) that he will die before they arrive … Whereas that is not the case with Isa (AS) … the point is this hadith is specific to Musa (AS) … it cannot be used as premise to deem something impossible … the sciences of hadith do not work like that you have to take in to consideration all of the hadith … so before me I see many hadith on nuzul of Isa (AS) and this hadith and for me they do not conflict and I reconcile them - you are not doing that … you are rejecting many hadith over this one hadith because of your own biased position.

By biased I mean you are being unfair to whole picture of hadith around this topic.

People are known by their names and the names of their fathers except Isa (AS) who is known by the name of his blessed mother Maryam (AS) … so if anywhere in hadith it states Isa ibn Maryam … you can be sure it is the same Isa (AS).
No … the reason why I believe as I do is because the books of 'aqeedah say so which were written way before any people claimed to be Masih born again.
I wanted to avoid talking about someone else … but you see the greater problem is that you want me to believe that someone who was not named Isa should be taken as Isa (AS) … nor was he named Muhammad that I take him as Mahdi (AS) … and you want me to believe that both Isa and Mahdi are one … Furthermore the belief I have of Isa (AS) coming again is shared throughout the Abrahamic religions and even moreso we have been warned of imposters 40 of them before the advent of Messiah … Then we need to look very closely at the claimants when they make their claims … Prophets are beautiful physically as well as their persona … then we look to see which of the hadith are being confirmed and coming true at their hands … and the last thing we want is our belief in miracles to be reduced to clock work science … only so reinterpretation becomes accepted … then we always look to the majority of scholars and we do what they do … so it presents a much bigger problem to do other than what I am doing.