Like a woman is supposed to have the liberty to decide what happens to her body aka deciding to keep a child or abort it.
Does (or rather should) a man have the right to deny paternal responsibility if he so wishes - if he becomes aware pregnancy? and if the mother decides to keep the baby - should he now be free from all obligations?
Discuss Please.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
A father denying responsibility of taking care of a child he fathered himself? Not that such cases are new but that’s quite low of any father to do that. Basic fatherly instinct wouldnt allow him to abandon his own child like that. Unless he was more base.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
i think the man’s right ends when he doesn’t take adequate precautions beforehand…
We have no right to deny what is ours. Father cant simply walk off from this responsibility..
And meanwhile, in western countries we have no say in anything. If she keeps baby good..if she doesn’t then sorry.
So sad to say this..but in western country if a woman by herself..by her herself decided..she wants to abort a baby she can by law. There is nothing a man can do. Unless, her life is in danger and all that..sure enough..but if she goes ahead and do the abortion..we have no right on her say.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
Although a mother has automatic parental responsibility, a father (even if he has fathered the child) does not automatically get it unless he meets a certain criteria. i.e. registered on the birth certificate or married to the mother.
However, where a father does have such responsibility, then I don’t think he can deny it to be free from the obligations, that’s unless you put the child up for adoption upon which you lose all the rights to your child.
And if by obligations you mean child maintenance etc then even if you do not have parental responsibility or don’t want anything to do with the child, then you still are obliged to pay maintenance since it is your child.
Personally, I think it’s appropriate for women to be able to choose whether to abort the child where there may be a danger to their life for example. However, men shouldn’t get women pregnant if they don’t want it.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
um, yay she is. her body at the end of the day
you tryna tell me if it was men who had the ability to produce children he wouldn’t be the first to make the first decision as to what happens. if he found out he were pregnant and didn’t want it trust me his wife would never know about it
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
This is interesting.
So if a lady gets pregnant it’s up to her to keep the baby or not. Interesting.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
In almost all cases the getting pregnant part would involve the full consent and participation of a man.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
And that is the right way. As opposed to "pro lifers " dictating to a woman what to do with her body.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
Are we seriously going to discuss ANYTHING HERE?
The questions here is framed incorrectly and the argument that will ensue would be useless unless one identifies this.
Anyone has the free-will to decide and observe and let go and act up. We all need some creative and rational justification in order to help us execute our decisions.
NOW there are actually 2 questions here
I think most of us would find the jist of the answer quickly if we assume for a minute that this man and woman were our OWN parent! That sense would be quite correct.
For the rational legal argument we could turn to the word of the LAW GIVER in the Quran. The Quran does not give right to abort child UNLESS it saves the mothers life. Even in the case of pregnancies out of rape. If rape is injustice, killing person being born out of rape is also another injustice of a great kind.
Also the BOOK of WISDOM insists on individual accountability and responsibility and individual sovereignty . You and my father would have full authority over his decision to walk away. That would clearly be injustice to himself and the one he abandons unless there is greater harm in being together.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
The question is based on the western societal norms/issues. In islam,there would be no child out of wedlock and also, there would be no discretionary abortions. So those points don’t really apply.
Well, accidents happen, he might not have wanted to be a father when the ‘act’ happened. As far as fatherly instinct is concerned - what about motherly instinct when a woman decides to have an abortion? thats worse than abandoning - akin to murder. no?
As if accidents don’t happen.
This is what I was pointing at. Biological father is involved in babymaking - but the fate of the baby is decided solely by the woman. If the woman has the right to abort the baby (regardless of wishes of the father), shouldn’t father also have the right ?
And shouldn’t the women not get pregnant if they don’t want it? What you say?
And woman too (Not talking about rape here)
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
yes why not.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
“Accidents” - yes and no.. you could say when doing the “act” then the man is taking the risk (of an accident) at that point. The man has and should have control over his body but not a woman’s.
A woman has rights to her body even afterwards so the risk of an accident is slightly more manageable for her.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
Whether a woman chooses to have an abortion or go through the pregnant and deliver…both options carry major risks for the woman’s body. This is why a woman has the freedom when it comes to deciding which option to choose.
You need to define “parental responsibility” and “obligation” and clarify further. If we’re talking about being involved in a child’s life, spending time/caring for the child etc…well, you can’t force ANYONE to do this if they don’t want to. In fact, either parent (mother or father) can give up custody and sign away their rights to the child if they wish. A child will not benefit spending time with a man who does not want to be there and in fact, out of resentment may end up saying thing that actually harm the child more emotionally in the long run.
But FINANCIAL obligation is another issue. A man does not have to ever see his child if he does not want to. However, he does need to pay a certain amount of child support while the child is a minor. In my state, the amount of child support is decided based on income.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
Right so you were talking in terms of western standards and compare the rights of man/women on the child born out of wedlock.
Upon reading your post, I had another case in mind from Pakistan where the guy wanted to divorce his wife due to too many differences between them. The wife did not want the divorce and thought she could change her husband’s mind by having another child. I dont know how she got him to agree but they had another child. Soon later, the husband still divorced her. I heard that the guy is denying responsibility of the child with a claim that the wife pushed him into that whereas he did not want another kid. And hence, he does not have any responsibilities towards the child.
That was a unique case that left me wondering if such men have any right to be called ‘humans’. He was human enough to be lead into doing something he did not want. But not human enough for the responsibility. I dont think the wife put a gun on his head to make him agree to have another child.
Anyway, things like abortion/western standards/out of wedlock are not applicable in this case.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
I was talking about financial basically - thanks for pointing that out.
about the bold part let me draw out two scenarios:
Man Woman do it - and unintentional pregnancy happens
Case 1 : Woman wants to abort ( Man doesn’t want to abort) - Woman aborts the child
Case 2: Woman wants baby (Man want’s her to abort) - Woman gives birth - Man has to pay expenses for a child (which he never wanted in the first place - and communicated to the woman too).
I am talking about Case 2 in my first post.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
If this is what you want to discuss specifically then my personal recommendation is that you edit your first post to clarify this. Otherwise, as you can tell from certain responses already, this thread will take MANY directions.
Back to topic. No, a man should not (and actually cannot in the U.S. at least) be able to choose not to pay child support. Is this fair? No. But there are good social policy reasons behind it. However, in most states, another man is willing to legally adopt the child…for example and woman’s new BF/finace/husband whatever…and the biological father consents to the adoption and give up his parental rights…then the child support obligation goes away. But otherwise, the biological father is stuck paying it until child turns 18.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
There was a post that brought up what the book of Wisdom says about this issues. It is similar to what pro lifers believe.
This is the best argument for keeping religion out of law making and governance.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
My opinion is that as long as women have the freedom to keep or abort a child so should men. Both are responsible for pregnancy. Both should be held accountable EQUALLY. If a woman is insistent on giving birth to a child the father doesn’t want, he should be able to walk away just like when a woman isn’t ready and goes for abortion. I get it’s her body and what not but an early abortion doesn’t affect the body too much, or does it? I hear too many stories of how women use this tactic to keep the man around. It’s pathetic and manipulative.
Re: Reproductive Rights - Do men have any?
And the last lady. Both should have a say