Replace France with India

The murmurs are growing. Friedman has a good point though..

Vote France Off the Island
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/09/opinion/09FRIE.html

ometimes I wish that the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council could be chosen like the starting five for the N.B.A. All-Star team — with a vote by the fans. If so, I would certainly vote France off the Council and replace it with India. Then the perm-five would be Russia, China, India, Britain and the United States. That’s more like it.

Why replace France with India? Because India is the world’s biggest democracy, the world’s largest Hindu nation and the world’s second-largest Muslim nation, and, quite frankly, India is just so much more serious than France these days. France is so caught up with its need to differentiate itself from America to feel important, it’s become silly. India has grown out of that game. India may be ambivalent about war in Iraq, but it comes to its ambivalence honestly. Also, France can’t see how the world has changed since the end of the cold war. India can.

Throughout the cold war, France sought to differentiate itself by playing between the Soviet and American blocs. France could get away with this entertaining little game for two reasons: first, it knew that Uncle Sam, in the end, would always protect it from the Soviet bear. So France could tweak America’s beak, do business with Iraq and enjoy America’s military protection. And second, the cold war world was, we now realize, a much more stable place. Although it was divided between two nuclear superpowers, both were status quo powers in their own way. They represented different orders, but they both represented order.

That is now gone. Today’s world is also divided, but it is increasingly divided between the “World of Order” — anchored by America, the E.U., Russia, India, China and Japan, and joined by scores of smaller nations — and the “World of Disorder.” The World of Disorder is dominated by rogue regimes like Iraq’s and North Korea’s and the various global terrorist networks that feed off the troubled string of states stretching from the Middle East to Indonesia.

How the World of Order deals with the World of Disorder is the key question of the day. There is room for disagreement. There is no room for a lack of seriousness. And the whole French game on Iraq, spearheaded by its diplomacy-lite foreign minister, Dominique de Villepin, lacks seriousness. Most of France’s energy is devoted to holding America back from acting alone, not holding Saddam Hussein’s feet to the fire to comply with the U.N.

The French position is utterly incoherent. The inspections have not worked yet, says Mr. de Villepin, because Saddam has not fully cooperated, and, therefore, we should triple the number of inspectors. But the inspections have failed not because of a shortage of inspectors. They have failed because of a shortage of compliance on Saddam’s part, as the French know. The way you get that compliance out of a thug like Saddam is not by tripling the inspectors, but by tripling the threat that if he does not comply he will be faced with a U.N.-approved war.

Mr. de Villepin also suggested that Saddam’s government pass “legislation to prohibit the manufacture of weapons of mass destruction.” (I am not making this up.) That proposal alone is a reminder of why, if America didn’t exist and Europe had to rely on France, most Europeans today would be speaking either German or Russian.

I also want to avoid a war — but not by letting Saddam off the hook, which would undermine the U.N., set back the winds of change in the Arab world and strengthen the World of Disorder. The only possible way to coerce Saddam into compliance — without a war — is for the whole world to line up shoulder-to-shoulder against his misbehavior, without any gaps. But France, as they say in kindergarten, does not play well with others. If you line up against Saddam you’re just one of the gang. If you hold out against America, you’re unique. “France, it seems, would rather be more important in a world of chaos than less important in a world of order,” says the foreign policy expert Michael Mandelbaum, author of “The Ideas That Conquered the World.”

If France were serious about its own position, it would join the U.S. in setting a deadline for Iraq to comply, and backing it up with a second U.N. resolution authorizing force if Iraq does not. And France would send its prime minister to Iraq to tell that directly to Saddam. Oh, France’s prime minister was on the road last week. He was out drumming up business for French companies in the world’s biggest emerging computer society. He was in India.

Re: Replace France with India

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *

Why replace France with India? Because India is the world's biggest democracy, the world's largest Hindu nation and the world's second-largest Muslim nation, and, quite frankly, India is just so much more serious than France these days.

[/QUOTE]

Serious about what, the only thing they are serious about is to continue the massacres of innocent people in Kashmir. Till your country grows up and acknowledges that minorities have a right to express their view freely without being gunned down or burned to death, stop talking about being a grown up and mature country.

Aray Chosen1 bhai, these are not my words but the words of a pulitzer winning journalist. Write a letter to the NYtimes, if you are upset. In the meantime..you can compare Kashmir with Tibet and Xinjiang for China's repression of minorities as it relates to a permanent seat.

thanks chanda,

CH

India and UNSC heheh author must be high on Afghan stuff,, I bet NA have restored the supply to the western world... LOL...

Yea soon kar badi khushi hui hai kai aap par ‘Deesai Cola’ ka bura asar nahi hooa :)

I would not be surprised to see India becoming a ‘Permanent Member’ with ‘veto’ power. Gradually, I can see this group only containing countries with anti- muslim agenda. India fits right in this category :)

If by anti-muslim you mean anti-terrorism, then you are correct. I think Friedman differentiates between the world of order and disorder. Let's see how it works out.

Btw/ the desai cola remark is a bit rich don't you think? Cosidering you were raised on mullah milk. You are smarter than that. I am sure you could comeup with something better.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
If by anti-muslim you mean anti-terrorism, then you are correct.

[/QUOTE]

Oh so those 2000 muslims your govt. burned alive were terrorist... I guess the defination of terrorist must be very different for ya Indians. LOL...

The analysis show a biased pice of writing.. how can Britian hold permanent member seat and France goes out ! In the recent rumble in UN about Iraq affair.. France have shown great resistance backing concers of majority of the world opinion and not swayed by bullying of USA.. we need to neutralize affects of weakening of USSR by supporting France.. otherwise USA will have free to push its foreign policy agenda without any resistance..

India can only be admitted in permamnent member security council if some day criteria is just to weigh poulation since it will surpass even China in 2051 A.D.. India has made good progress in economy in past but its still far from an economic giant or military power passing even its immediate neighbors.. China is a power in the region..

Abdali, which part of the statement are you having difficulty with? I was referring to what 2B had written erroneously as the relationship between the proposed members as being anti-muslim, but in fact is anti-terrorism. I hope you are not suggesting that all muslims are terrorists? That is broad generalization and stereotyping. And the burning of muslims was done by hindu terrorists. Hope this clears things up for you.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *

Oh so those 2000 muslims your govt. burned alive were terrorist... I guess the defination of terrorist must be very different for ya Indians. LOL...
[/QUOTE]

worse thing is its even gross than 2800 killed in 9-11 at NY since that was done by few crooks but in Gujrat a large segment of population took part in massacre with help of state govt of Modi and in front of federal Govt .. and they even reelected with a issue of their killings ..

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
Abdali, which part of the statement are you having difficulty with? I was referring to what 2B had written erroneously as the relationship between the proposed members as being anti-muslim, but in fact is anti-terrorism. I hope you are not suggesting that all muslims are terrorists? That is broad generalization and stereotyping. And the burning of muslims was done by hindu terrorists. Hope this clears things up for you.
[/QUOTE]

So the killing of 2000 muslims was not due to your govt. anti muslim attitude.... Perhaps you should browse the Human Rights Web site for a change. And to top it up the same govt. is in power again.... Now that for sure by any stretch of immagination is not an attribute to qualify for UNSC....

Shouldn't having covered sewers and running water be a requirement for being on the SC?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kareem: *
Shouldn't having covered sewers and running water be a requirement for being on the SC?
[/QUOTE]

If that was the case, China would be left off. Take a tour of the inner provinces and the slums of the coastal cities like Guang Zhao and Shanghai. Can Rival the best in INdia.

Abdali, you can keep harping about the godhra tragedy but the thing is that people in INdia have moved on. One good way to test the lives of people in a country is to look at the willingness of outsiders to put money in. Check out the PERC rating of INdia and Pak. It will give you an Idea as to which is a land which is safer for people, investments and infrastructure. And I am sure that TOm Friedman is a lot more credible in his writing than you or I.

Moved on!! :rolleyes: you mean by electing the same murderers…nanana they have not moved on but are exactly at the same place where they started from… BTW also check Indo/Pak ratings at S&P and Moodys… India slip to 56th rank from 49th last year in AT Kearney’s 2003 Globalisation Index 6 points behind Pak…

To be honest I find this whole UNSC and India a joke… and I am sure Friedman must be high on something… LOL…

What does the Soveign Rating have to do with FDI chanda? Haan?? :confused:Please explain.

I am seeing it first hand, while you guys are browbeating about moving up six points in AT Kearney survey. McKinsey hs already anointed India the back office of the world. So according to you, Pakistan is preffered choice for business in South asia. LOL! :hehe:

Anyway, there is no comparison between India and Pak economically. It’s like comparing a mouse and an elephant. I think the Economist termed it exactly that way in their survey last year. :slight_smile:

I agree there is no comparision between India and Pak, only recently 40 children died of starvation in that mighty economy called India… So lets not go to that great back office… Tell us what makes you think India should qulaify for UNSC…

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *
Tell us what makes you think India should qulaify for UNSC.......
[/QUOTE]

Read the first post.

May I also add that India has Good relationships with almost all Muslim countries.

I think Friedman covered it. Tell me again what does the death of 40 children in INdia have to do with it's ability to provide back office services. But before that, please tell me what is the correlation between the Sovereign rating and FDI. I am sure everyone wants to know your insights into the world of economics and finance. But I am sure you will not respond to that, because you haven't a clue but just like to drop snippets of big words like MOody's and AT Kearney. :)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
I think Friedman covered it. Tell me again what does the death of 40 children in INdia have to do with it's ability to provide back office services. But before that, please tell me what is the correlation between the Sovereign rating and FDI. I am sure everyone wants to know your insights into the world of economics and finance. But I am sure you will not respond to that, because you haven't a clue but just like to drop snippets of big words like MOody's and AT Kearney. :)
[/QUOTE]

Chaltahi instead of getting defensive and beat around the bush why not answer the question.

Its no big deal on the net to dig out details of FDI and GNP, GDP and blah blah... but that is not the question and as if you know better....

And yes a nation where people starve to death it tells a lot about its economy and its mighty progress.

** The question is what makes you think India qualifys for UNSC...... **

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RIFAK: *

Read the first post.

May I also add that India has Good relationships with almost all Muslim countries.
[/QUOTE]

Why replace France with India?

Because India is the world's biggest democracy,
the world's largest Hindu nation
and the world's second-largest Muslim nation,

Hardly the criteria for a UNSC... what do you think of Germany and Japan and I can throw in quite a few more.