Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
hmm, are they really more rabid and extremist then the terrorists who exploded three car bombs near a bus station and hospital in Baghdad today killing at least 43 people?
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
The blame game will continue until both sides are satisfied. however, you are using the actions of a few as an excuse for the occupations of a whole nation/race whatever. how can anyone in thier right mind justify that?
secondly, It is not really thier choice is it, they are the ones oppressed, remember? no matter which way you look at it, the finger always seems to point at Israel. why, because they have the power to do something, yet they refuse to do so. Hence, the reason, attacks from palis always seem reactionary to israel's behaviour, an not a provocation. an vice versa.
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
Well golly, that must make the IDF the heros of the day as they are evicting these extremists from Palestinain land? Oh the irony.
Guppies, no matter how you shape this, this is a public relations victory for Israel. You can rant and spin all you want, but in the history of the Palestinian/Isreali conflict the Palestinians have never made such a bold move. When we see Palestinain security cracking down extremists, I will be equally impressed, but we all know that ain’t gonna happen.
Huge victory today for Sharon…
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
Ok, Ma, I'll bite. What exactly does Israel have the power to do that they are refusing to do? And if Israel makes a complete pullout from Gaza, how are they oppressing the Palestinians? As is the case in most of the Muslim world the oppression seems to be self inflicted.
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
Come on Semi, Oppression is the "Universal Excuse" for any deviant behavior. You can tell they are going to invoke the "Universal Excuse" when they whip out the term "on the Ground", or "Ground Realities". "Root Causes" is used in the same way, to shed responsibility.
The problem is, from this day forward Gaza will be in the hands of Palestinians. Let's see what they have. Predictably new phrases will emerge, such as "Aftermath of Occupation" to explain the failure to bring violence to heel.
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
og, sharon is giving up some land to gain some ground to land grab else where, an you accuse others of putting a spin on things? you know what hes doing for real an yet you want to believe in the spin. do the facts not matter to you at all?
jeez bloody louise.
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
And pray tell, what land was "grabbed" after Israel left the Sinai?
So Israel shouldn’t leave Gaza?Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
seminole; they have the power to do anything. it would be a start to stop land grabbing. Another great idea might be to stop demolishing homes, and shooting to kill, especially where school children are concerned. Common sense would dictate what kinda feelings this sort of behaviour normally creates and i assure you it aint the lovey dovey type.
sharon leaving gaza should be taken at face value an nothing more. When you are returning stolen goods, its not really something to boast about, is it?
og: i dunno, i wasnae around then. since you were, perhaps you can shed some light, if its relevant to the present ongoings that is.
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
Ma: The ONLY way Sharon and Israel can keep what it has in the West Bank or grab more land in the West Bank (which I do believe is the calculated objective here) is if the Palistinians create the environment and political climate by totally f***ing things up with Gaza which gives Sharon the moral imperative to do.
Essentially, the Palestinians control their own destiny here. If Sharon's plan works, it will be because the Palestinians own actions were the means to achieve the end. It's brilliant and ingenious. And, of course, you and others will blame Israel and Sharon for the end result saying that was always the plan. Indeed, a plan whose success relies upon the stupidity and predictable self-inflicted actions of the Palestinian people. In other words, it's almost foolproof.
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
Ummm, Ma?
Not exactly stollen goods. Perhaps land captured during a war. I really have very little sympathy for giving back land that was lost in a war.
And yes, land captured in the same fashion was given back to Egypt rather promptly after an agreement with Egypt was reached. US troops have been serving in the Sinai for 25 years ensuring peace in that area. How soon we forget...
Myvoice, Sharon has given the Palestinians just enough rope to hang themselves.
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
mv: its not as brilliant or ingenious as you think. its cunning and manipulative. an anyone one with half a brain cell can see that one. Whats troubling, is you guys can see right through, yet you seem to believe in all the hype at the same time. what is it? perhaps the politician's ploy and the way the media spins the event matters more so than the actual truth? or is it someting in the american water? but IMO,you cant really expect such calculating moves and political rivalry from a nation that doesnt have a strong political system and haven't had one for quite a while. Thats just plain ridiculous.
og; i was right, i wasnae around, but perhaps they can ensure peace by doing the same as they did with Egypt? where's the harm in that?
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
Remember about a year ago all the jew-hating Gup Puppies who were so convinced and so certain that neither Israel nor Sharon would ever dismantle any settlements? Those of us who looked at the conflict with balanced, non-prejudiced eyes told them they were just plain wrong and reminded them of Israel dismantling the Sinai settlments. Of course, in their eyes we were just zionist loving apologists.
Well looky here now. Gaza settlements are being dismantled in a time frame even faster than we predicted back then. After being proven wrong so many times over the years, one wonders why anyone would ever give any credence to some of these guy’s foolish views. It still cracks me up that one person believes Bermuda is a US slave colony.
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
i dont want to go off topic here but if i were you mv, i'd stop right there. If i remember correctly, you guys were at the forefront of saddams weapons of mass destruction campaign. If theres anyone that should not be hooting on about credibility, its you guys.
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
Ma: You just don’t seem to get it. The Palestinian apologists always fall back on the claim that Palestinian terror is because of Israeli settlements. “Get rid of the settlements,” they say “and you get rid of the terror.” That’s a bunch of cr*p. There is terror because Palestinian fanatics think that all of Israel is a settlement and must be destroyed. By removing the Gaza settlements, the great lie of Palestinian apologists will be exposed for all the world to see, except of course for the jew haters. Israel has politically and diplomatically “checked” the Palestinians. It’s political and diplomatic “checkmate” in three moves.
And…BTW… if you don’t want to go off topic here (especially as a Mod), then don’t. The topic is removal of settlements and it has been a long running debate in Gupistan. If you want to talk WMD in Iraq and what I did or didn;t write about it, open a new thread. I’ll be happy to respond there.
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
Dear Ma,
Please research my posts. I was for removing Saddam, but could have cared less about WMD. I do however believe that you only get one Genocide before your regime should be changed. How many do you allow?
And yes MyVoice, land for peace has been the Israeli deal all along. The settlements just create pressure. Of course the Palestinians have been jerking around so long, the settlements have gotten so big that they have assumed a life of their own.....
It is amazing how the young'uns here only know the Al-Jazeera version of the Isreali/Palestinian conflict.
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
yes mv, its all very well questioning the credibility of others when your own is pretty much an open book. my post was actually relevant to yours. Ive made my point, hence nothing further needs to be said.
as for the settlements, lets wait till all the settlements have gone before we condemn the palestinians for asking for whats rightfully thiers. Only then can we deal with the fanatics. That way, you willnae hear me complaining for sure and am positive they wont have as much support from the palis either.
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
Wrong, the fanatics (terrorisits) need to be delt with now waiting only strengthens them and if they are not dealt with the Pals will end up losing. The pieces are being set up as we speak and the game is on center court and while you may think it's acceptable to allow the terrorists to sit back and deal with them later that's not going to sell.
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
Well, you see that is the same loser mindset that Sharon and Israel are counting on and I’m sure they will get in response to the Gaza withdrawal. It’s the loser mindset that will set back the justifiable aspirations of the Palestinian people for a homeland for another decade or two.
It will not be an acceptable answer that “we cannot do anything productive in Gaza, we cannot establish a security infrastructure in Gaza, we cannot reign in terrorists in Gaza, we cannot do anything in Gaza until you also remove settlements in the West Bank.” Like it or not, Gaza is the test. You don’t get the West Bank unless you pass the Gaza test. No one will pressure Israel to withdraw from the West Bank if the Gaza turns into a chaotic, insecure, haven for terrorist infiltrators. From the tone of your comments, it sounds as if you agree with OG and me that Gaza will become just that. And you’re already placing the blame for that on Israel maintaining settlements in the West Bank. ** Can’t you see how detrimental that type of thinking is to the aspirations of the Palestinian people? **
Re: Removal of jewish settlers from there homes
I see you sidestepped the whole issue of displacements of plestanians to establish these illegal settlements… You cannot deny the fact that these illegal establishments are the cause of violence. If those 800,000 palestanians were not displaced we will not have all this drama now will we?