Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
I want to understand how all of sudden those places came under Shirk in Saudi rule, which remained intact during Khulafa e rashideen and others period. Can we conclude that Saudis got exact definition of shirk, which was even not known to Khulfa e Rashideen.
No they didn't exist in the age of Sahabah, tabaeen and the rest of early generations of Muslims. I can provide the history of shrines in Hijaz if you're interested.
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
No they didn't exist in the age of Sahabah, tabaeen and the rest of early generations of Muslims. I can provide the history of shrines in Hijaz if you're interested.
Interesting. I would love to know that, but what about Gunbad e Khizra? If these places were not present in sahaba period, then they might exist atleast for 1000 years until bulldozed by Saudis. Does that mean the rulers in between were not aware of the religious concept of shirk?
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
Wake up from your sectarian nightmare:
King Abdullah ordered new expansion of Masjid-e-Nabvi
Saturday, 30 June 2012
Hyderabad, June 30:
The Finance Minister Ibrahim Al-Assaf announced that King Abdullah has ordered an expansion of Masjid-e-Nabvi (Prophet’s Mosque) in Madinah to accommodate more than 1.6 million worshippers as reported in one of the leading newspapers of Gulf Arab News on Saturday 30th June.
He further said that, “the new expansion of the Prophet’s Mosque is effort of King Abdullah’s in the service of Islam and Muslims and this time the unprecedented expansion of the Grand Mosque in Makkah.”
King Abdullah ordered new expansion of Masjid-e-Nabvi | Siasat
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
Interesting. I would love to know that, but what about Gunbad e Khizra? If these places were not present in sahaba period, then they might exist atleast for 1000 years until bulldozed by Saudis. Does that mean the rulers in between were not aware of the religious concept of shirk?
The green dome is part of the masjid-e-Nabawi and not the part of the raudah (the blessed grave) of the Prophet of Islam. It has nothing to do with any shrine or a place of shirk. All those who have visited the Raudah of Rasool s.a.w that Saudis are very strict and sensitive about even the traces of shirk in and around the rauda of Rasool s.a.w and the rest of the holy sites.
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
The green dome is part of the masjid-e-Nabawi and not the part of the raudah (the blessed grave) of the Prophet of Islam. It has nothing to do with any shrine or a place of shirk. All those who have visited the Raudah of Rasool s.a.w that Saudis are very strict and sensitive about even the traces of shirk in and around the rauda of Rasool s.a.w and the rest of the holy sites.
But again my query remained unanswered. Why before Saudis, no ruler considered these places promoting shirk?
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
But again my query remained unanswered. Why before Saudis, no ruler considered these places promoting shirk?
It was not exactly Saudis; it was the movement under Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab who made reforms in the Islamic society of Saudi Arabia. According to him people of Hijaz were involved in the acts of shirk and innovations (bid'aat) and so he made relations with the family of Sauds and used their power to spread his views in the kingdom.
I will try to do a research on Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab and his movement in Saudi Arabia.
As for the former rulers of Hijaz, they promoted shirk the way other rulers promoted shirk in the rest of the Muslim lands including the subcontinent. If I am not wrong the grave worship, and shrine polytheism emerged from Persia and shias and disguised shias in the form of Sufis promoted such ideas among Muslims.
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
It was not exactly Saudis; it was the movement under Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab who made reforms in the Islamic society of Saudi Arabia. According to him people of Hijaz were involved in the acts of shirk and innovations (bid'aat) and so he made relations with the family of Sauds and used their power to spread his views in the kingdom.
I will try to do a research on Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab and his movement in Saudi Arabia.
As for the former rulers of Hijaz, they promoted shirk the way other rulers promoted shirk in the rest of the Muslim lands including the subcontinent. If I am not wrong the grave worship, and shrine polytheism emerged from Persia and shias and disguised shias in the form of Sufis promoted such ideas among Muslims.
But do you think the bulldozing of the historical sights was last option. If they can keep Masjid e Nabavi free from Shirk (as they claim), why didn't they stored Muslim history related to places bulldozed?
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
Wake up from your sectarian nightmare:
Lol. MY sectarian hatred? How many posts have you seen from me against Sunnis or any other religious group?
As always, a cult teaches violence, destruction, and LYING.
before accusing me of lying, see that I cited it from WIKIPEDIA. So it is not ME talking. It is a site saying this along with a reference.
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
ive not read the whole thread but if they are making way for the expansion, shirk has nothing to do with it.
btw the shia will be trying to sow discord 1) out of habit 2) to cause fitnah in arabia
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
But do you think the bulldozing of the historical sights was last option. If they can keep Masjid e Nabavi free from Shirk (as they claim), why didn't they stored Muslim history related to places bulldozed?
Muslim history is that there was no shrine or any kind of constructions over the graves when the Messenger of Allah, Muhammad s.a.w was alive. His wife Khadiah ra died, daughters Zaynab ra and Ruqaiyah ra died, his son Ibrahim ra died, his uncle Hamza ra, cousin Jafar ra died...but he buit no shrine, no canopy, no dome over the graves. According to an authentic tradition of Sahih Bukhari, the Messenger of Allah, s.a.w cursed the Jews and Christians who turned the graves of their Prophets into places of worship (shrines etc), and the Holy Prophet s.a.w said that a while before he passed away.
So we should follow the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad s.a.w or people who changed the tradition of the Prophet of Islam?
Whose practice are you going to follow then?
And yes, since Saudis have their rule of law implemented throughout the kingdom, they could have stopped the masses from doing shirk in the shrines, but the problem is the shrines themselves are signs of shirk, like the cross is the sign of Christianity, six cornered star is the sign of Judaism etc.
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
Fitnah is already there in Hejaz in the form of destroyers of Islamic history. What they have done to Islamic sites is worse than Israelis could ever do.
This is why I consider Saudis bigger enemy of Islam than Israelis.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/world-affairs/585431-religious-tolerance-shias-and-sunnis-3.html
Mecca for the rich: Islam’s holiest site ‘turning into Vegas’
Historic and culturally important landmarks are being destroyed to make way for luxury hotels and malls, reports Jerome Taylor
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
Muslim history is that there was no shrine or any kind of constructions over the graves when the Messenger of Allah, Muhammad s.a.w was alive. His wife Khadiah ra died, daughters Zaynab ra and Ruqaiyah ra died, his son Ibrahim ra died, his uncle Hamza ra, cousin Jafar ra died...but he buit no shrine, no canopy, no dome over the graves. According to an authentic tradition of Sahih Bukhari, the Messenger of Allah, s.a.w cursed the Jews and Christians who turned the graves of their Prophets into places of worship (shrines etc), and the Holy Prophet s.a.w said that a while before he passed away.
So we should follow the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad s.a.w or people who changed the tradition of the Prophet of Islam?
Whose practice are you going to follow then?
And yes, since Saudis have their rule of law implemented throughout the kingdom, they could have stopped the masses from doing shirk in the shrines, but the problem is the shrines themselves are signs of shirk, like the cross is the sign of Christianity, six cornered star is the sign of Judaism etc.
Do you think they bulldozed only shrines? What about the long list of graves given in post no. 36?
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
Lol. MY sectarian hatred? How many posts have you seen from me against Sunnis or any other religious group? As always, a cult teaches violence, destruction, and LYING.
before accusing me of lying, see that I cited it from WIKIPEDIA. So it is not ME talking. It is a site saying this along with a reference.
Your spilling hatred against those who love the companions of the Prophet s.a.w is obvious. Your hating Saudis is only because they destroyed the shrines of your holy imams, though they didn't aim it towards your sect, they did that generalized to all the shrines related to sunnis etc.
And even a 10 years old can edit wikipedia, talk some sense!
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
If Israel had done this then Muslims around the world would have come out calling to destroy such an enemy of Islam.
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
Exactly. I heard that they are making Umra and haj very commercilaised. Some Umra packages offers you to have your five star hotel’s exit just by entrance of holy mosques. Spirituality lost and it becomes a holiday trip for those who can afford it.
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
Your spilling hatred against those who love the companions of the Prophet s.a.w is obvious. Your hating Saudis is only because they destroyed the shrines of your holy imams, though they didn't aim it towards your sect, they did that generalized to all the shrines related to sunnis etc.
And even a 10 years old can edit wikipedia, talk some sense!
You mean the list of shrines / graves destroyed as per Wikipedia were actually not destroyed. Interesting. I would like to see proof otherwise.
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
Do you think they bulldozed only shrines? What about the long list of graves given in post no. 36?
If you visit a graveyard in the subcontinent and Iran in particular, you can see the kind of things they do over there. Asking the dead directly for help, prostrating to them as well as doing black magic. I have yet to see what type of levelling they did on the graves, if they removed the signs of who was buried in them, perhaps it was because they didn't want people to do their practices on them.
For example in Syria (which is ruled by Alawi Shiites), their is a building constructed over the grave of Saiyidina Ameer Muawiya radiyallahu anhu, and shias urinate over there, spit on it and throw stones etc out of hatred. So it's locked for the visitors. If you have youtube activated, you may check that.
So it's very much probable that the shias were doing shameful acts near the graves of Uthman ra, Ummul Mu'mineen Aisha ra, Hafsa ra and the rest of companions in Baqi' because they hate these companions from the bottom of their heart. And you know well we can't stop shias from visiting the holy lands. Therefore what Saudis did, does make sense to me.
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
Your spilling hatred against those who love the companions of the Prophet s.a.w is obvious. Your hating Saudis is only because they destroyed the shrines of your holy imams, though they didn't aim it towards your sect, they did that generalized to all the shrines related to sunnis etc.
I don't talk religion at all anyway. Neither Shia nor Sunni. I am a secular guy who dislikes a mullah rule whether in Iran or Saudi or anywhere else.
In fact it is YOU who is filled with hatred. So much so that you support the khariji cult found primarily in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Pakistan. A cult which considers all Muslims disagreeing with them kafir and deserve to be killed.
Agreed that they destroyed graves of Shia imams, but what about graves of Fatima? Do kharijis consider her 'Shia' too?
but like you said, they destroyed graves of those who Sunnis revere as well. And if this is this the case then why can't you admit that they will destroy the grave of prophet of Islam too using the same principle?
[quote]
And even a 10 years old can edit wikipedia, talk some sense!
[/QUOTE]
but can he also fudge a reference to an article published in independent.co.uk?
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
Exactly. I heard that they are making Umra and haj very commercilaised. Some Umra packages offers you to have your five star hotel's exit just by entrance of holy mosques. Spirituality lost and it becomes a holiday trip for those who can afford it.
If you have performed Umrah or Hajj, you should appreciate the kind of facilities they provide for that. Quran has allowed to do business out of these rituals as far as I know. At least they are not involved in corruptions from these acts of worship. No other nations have the ability to manage hajj and umrah as efficiently as they do.
Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)
If you visit a graveyard in the subcontinent and Iran in particular, you can see the kind of things they do over there. Asking the dead directly for help, prostrating to them as well as doing black magic. I have yet to see what type of levelling they did on the graves, if they removed the signs of who was buried in them, perhaps it was because they didn't want people to do their practices on them.
For example in Syria (which is ruled by Alawi Shiites), their is a building constructed over the grave of Saiyidina Ameer Muawiya radiyallahu anhu, and shias urinate over there, spit on it and throw stones etc out of hatred. So it's locked for the visitors. If you have youtube activated, you may check that.
So it's very much probable that the shias were doing shameful acts near the graves of Uthman ra, Ummul Mu'mineen Aisha ra, Hafsa ra and the rest of companions in Baqi' because they hate these companions from the bottom of their heart. And you know well we can't stop shias from visiting the holy lands. Therefore what Saudis did, does make sense to me.
Oh really? So it was all due to Shias? They destroyed ALL islamic history and made Makkah another Vegas only due to shias?
Well, c*an kharijis explain if they will do the same thing with prophet's own grave as well? Will you destroy it too*?
You guys also destroyed many shrines in pakistan and killed several Muslims. Was it also due to Shias? And when you do bomb schools in Pakistan, do you do it due to Shias as well?
lol.