Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

It is the just Saudi Zionist propaganda which makes many Muslims overlook the crimes Saudi Zionists have committed against Islam. The Israeli Zionists have not destroyed as many Islamic sites as Saudi Wahhabis have done in Hejaz.
If Israelis are Islam's enemies then Wahhabis are even bigger enemy, in this sense.

True that Pak army and government has had good relations with Saudi wahhabis ... and today Pakistan is paying the price of working with enemies of Islam in Riyadh.

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

Stay on the topic? Wasn't it YOU who asked for proofs? I just showed what kind of proofs you would accept.

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

Oh. So now we want to go back hundreds of years while discussing a thread about present Iran government>

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

Saudis demolished the shrines of the so called imams because they were centres of polytheism and pagan rituals. Any kind of shirk and satanic rituals will not be tolerated on the soil of Hijaz. The Messenger of Allah, s.a.w lived a difficult life to spread the message of Unicity of Allah and curb polytheism. So no matter how much you moan and whine, we will not let you commit shirk on the holy lands.

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True that Pak army and government has had good relations with Saudi wahhabis ... and today Pakistan is paying the price of working with enemies of Islam in Riyadh.
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You're jealous. We will alwasy stand on the side of our Arab brothers. We belong to their holy land.

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

The present Iranian regime, and the so called revolution of Khomeni is a revival of fascist Safavid dynasty in Iran.

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

hmmm…not something worth duplicating in Pakistan…

UNHCR | Refworld | USCIRF Annual Report 2012 - Countries of Particular Concern: Iran

***Sunni Muslims


Muslim minorities continue to face repression. Several of the country’s ethnic minorities – Arabs, Baluchis, Kurds, and Turkmen – practice Sunni Islam. This means these groups are doubly affected, and subject to discriminatory policies based on both their ethnic identity and their faith. Sunni Muslim leaders regularly are intimidated and harassed by intelligence and security services and report widespread official discrimination. In addition, the Iranian government discriminates against the Sunni community in government employment, particularly in leadership positions in the executive and judicial branches.

Sunni leaders have reported widespread abuses and restrictions on their religious practice, including detentions and abuse of Sunni clerics, as well as bans on Sunni teachings in public schools and Sunni religious literature, even in predominantly Sunni areas. In December 2011, Sunni Muslim members of parliament wrote to the Supreme Leader asking for an end to discrimination against Sunni Muslims in Iran, an end to the imposition of religious limitations, and permission to build a mosque in Tehran. The Sunni community still has not been able to build a mosque in Tehran and, in recent years, Sunni mosques were destroyed in eastern Iran near Zabol, Sistan-Baluchistan, and Mashhad. In recent years, dozens of Sunni clerics reportedly were arrested for spreading Sunni teachings in several parts of the country, including Kurdistan, Kermanshah, Baluchistan, West Azerbaijan, Ahvaz, Tavalesh, and Khorassan provinces.

***Sufi Muslims


During the past year, arrests and harassment of Sufi Muslims increased significantly. Sufi Muslims have faced growing government repression of their communities and religious practices, including increased harassment and imprisonment of prominent Sufi leaders by the intelligence and security services and the destruction of prayer centers and hussainiyas (places of worship). In 2011, some Shi’a clerics and prayer leaders denounced Sufism and Sufi activities in both sermons and public statements. Government restrictions on Sufi groups and places of worship have become more pronounced.

Over the past few years, authorities have detained hundreds of Sufi Muslims, particularly from the Nematollahi Gonabadi order, sentencing many to imprisonment, fines, and floggings. In September and October 2011, a Sufi Muslim from the Gonabadi order was killed and several were injured during a government crackdown in southwestern Iran, Fars province, during which the Basij militia arrested at least 60 Sufis. At the end of the reporting period, at least 11 remain in detention. Four attorneys – Farshid Yadollahi, Amir Eslami, Afshin Karampour, and Omid Behruz –who defended the dervishes in court were also arrested in September. At the end of the reporting period, human rights groups report that the four attorneys continue to be held in Evin Prison and were charged in December with insulting the Supreme Leader, “spreading lies,” and membership in a “deviant group.”

In April 2011, eight Sufi dervishes from the Gonabadi order were re-arrested on charges of disrupting public order, previous charges for which they received floggings and had been imprisoned. The previous month, in March, over 200 Gonabadi Sufis were summoned to courts throughout the country based on allegations that they were insulting Iranian authorities. In January, three Iranian lawyers who defended Sufi dervishes were sentenced to prison terms. Farshid Yadollahi and Amir Eslami were sentenced to six months by a penal court on Kish Island in southern Iran, and Mostafa Daneshjoo was sentenced to seven months by a court in the northern province of Mazandaran. According to human rights groups, the three lawyers were found guilty of “propagating lies and creating public anxiety,” while their clients were acquitted of “acting against national security.”

Furthermore, Iranian state television continued to air a series of programs designed to denigrate and demonize Sufism, particularly the Nematollahi Gonabadi order. Since 2006, several prayer centers of the Gonabadi order have been demolished or attacked by Iranian authorities. There also have been reports over the past few years that the government is considering a ban on Sufism.

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

Your comments full of hatred and frustration are NO proofs. Bring something substantial. Documented evidence; any idea what it means?

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

Strange to hear about intloerance against Sufi Islam in Iran. In Sindh, Shia people respect sufi saints and found in majority on mazars of Qalandar Shahbaz , Sachal sarmast and Shah Lateef.

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

Not easy to understand their behaviour until you have studied their ideology.

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

Ideologies always convert to practice, but I found Shia Islam in Sindh quite different. May be ideologies change shape considering the minority / majority situation or overall environment of the area.

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

Maybe this discrimination has started after the 1979 revolution, therefore more to do with the current ruling elite. Strange thing is that in Tehran there are synagogues and churches but no Sunni mosques.

Iranian authorities close Tehran Sunni mosque

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

I sometimes feel that people have higher tolerance for non-Muslims than another sect of Muslims

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

I think there's no absolute tolerance found in any community of the world. Humans are basically intolerant, impatient. Mostly they tolerate what suits them or what doesn't oppose their lifestyle or ideology.

For example a number of masjids in NYC or somewhere else in the USA, a Muslim worshipper spreading a praying mat along the roadside in the West, don't stop them from practising their life style, don't stop them from believing in gay rights or sex on consent with anyone, or a group of Tablighi Jama'at or Green Turban Guys (Barelvis, Sufis etc) don't pose any threat to the Western civilization..so they are quite tolerant towards them. Tablighis and Barelvis get American visas easily!

But you can't raise funds for Al-Qaida or Taliban on the soil of America no matter how much you assure them that you or these organizations have nothing to do with terrorism and it's all about fake media reporting. They won't listen to you. They will put you on trial and throw in a jail. Very intolerant indeed!

Iranian Shias are hard core fascists. Even the moderate shias of Iran hate them because of their strict sectarian policies.

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

I think same is the case with Saudi rulers for their intolerance and bulldozing mazaraats and other historical places. Whoever gets power tries to suppress the ideology he dislikes.

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

**

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You agree 100% with Israeli Zionists. Birds of a feather flock together.

For Saudi Arabia, Israel is turning from foe to friend - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

"“A Saudi-Israeli Connection?”

Yes. Many people don’t like Mullah rule. For example, I don’t like mullah rule anywhere, including Iran. But that is because such a rule is bad for the country. It it not for “sectarian” policies.
People don’t like to live under rules imposed on them by an oligarchy in the name of religion or anything else. So Iran government is destined to fail just like such governments anywhere else in the world.

Saudis, on the other hand, may survive because they are not a religious government but an opportunist government. This is why purist extremists like khariji Qaeda consider Saudis their enemies.

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

What Saudis have done to Islam’s historical sites, no Israeli Zionist would have done. This is why I say that Iran needs to focus on the bigger fitnah in the region which is Saudi Wahhabism.
If we look at the destruction extremism has done in Islamic countries including Pakistan and Afghanistan, and when we realize where this extremism originates from, we will see that Saudi is a bigger enemy of Muslims than Israel.

Had Israel destroyed even a single one of those sites, the whole Muslim world would have been outraged. But since it is done by Khain e Harmain Shareefein, people do not even realize what damage has been to Islam by that fanatic ideology.

Destruction of early Islamic heritage sites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Below is the incomplete lists of destroyed sites**edit]Mosques**

edit]Cemeteries and tombs

edit]Historical religious sites

For many years, hardline Wahabi clerics have had their sights set on the 15th century green dome that rests above the tomb holding the Prophet, Abu Bakr and Umar in Medina. The mosque is regarded as the second holiest site in Islam. Wahabis, however, believe marked graves are idolatrous. A pamphlet published in 2007 by the Saudi Ministry of Islamic Affairs, endorsed by Abdulaziz Al Sheikh, the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, stated that "the green dome shall be demolished and the three graves flattened in the Prophet’s Masjid".[SUP][1]](Destruction of early Islamic heritage sites in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia)[/SUP]

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

^ People who are planning to do this to Masjid e Nabawi are the Khain e Harmain Shareefain for sure.

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

Because they believed that polytheistic practices (shirk) was going on in those shrines, and if you go through the religious texts of Islam which is agreed upon by the mainstream of Ahl-as-Sunnah (with exception of few Sufis, Barelvis), building shrines over graves is forbidden. And the Prophet of Islam has cursed the Jews and Christians because they converted the graves of Prophets to places of worship.

So what Saudis did was not actually against a particular sect, it was a generalized act against both Sunni and Shia groups.

In Islam we don't tolerate practices of Shirk on where Islamic laws are to be implemented.

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

I want to understand how all of sudden those places came under Shirk in Saudi rule, which remained intact during Khulafa e rashideen and others period. Can we conclude that Saudis got exact definition of shirk, which was even not known to Khulfa e Rashideen.

Re: Religious Tolerance (Shias and Sunnis)

Also because the marjas and ayatullas of Iran are involved in plundering the wealth of Iranians as are scandals of ayatulla Khamnai and his family members along with the rest of ayatullas who are fooling the shia masses in the name of Imam Mahdi and collecting money as khums etc.

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Saudis, on the other hand, may survive because they are not a religious government but an opportunist government. This is why purist extremists like khariji Qaeda consider Saudis their enemies.
[/QUOTE]

When extremists like Al-Qaida consider Saudis their enemies, doesn't it mean that Saudis are quite moderate people?

Then why shias from all over the world flock to Saudi Arabia in order to get jobs and do business? Why don't they go to Iran in the first place?