Religious extremists in 3 faiths share views:

[USResident]

Re: Religious extremists in 3 faiths share views:

We have different interprations of depth and breadth. You look to religion for an instruction book for every day living. I look at it as a spiritual guide. I happen to think spirituality has more depth than detailed daily life instructions that are supposed to apply to me as equally as to someone from a different continent from a different time in history.

I don't need instructions on 'real life'. Treat others as you expect to be treated about sums it up. It's the instructions on the spiritual life I seek.

Not really, religion is not a users guide or manual. Its a set of principles and practices which you have to figure out how to incorporate into your daily life. Its how you make your living relate to spiritual upbringing. And yes it applies irrespective of time and place.

This is something that is peripheral for me i.e. treatment. I view it as what Allah SWT requires of me in exchange for granting me my very existence. First things first, Allah SWT comes first then people. I do not care how people view me if I know my relationship with Allah SWT is straight.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Religious extremists in 3 faiths share views:

I am not a literalst or a fundamentalist. Many wouldn't call me Christian but many who call themselves Christian have a different definition of Christian than I do.

I believe you can get to God through many paths - Islam and Chritianity are just two of them. But for me, Jesus' message overall message of peace, tolerance, love, forgiveness and respect I can associate with as a final message from God.

so its how you interpret the message and see the peaceful aspects of it rather then other aspects including the second coming and the chitrol of locals in jerusalem upon return etc.

what we cant do is compare one's personal view and interpretation and feelings for one item with the specifics of the other. I dont quite see why this discussion going on is really even useful or solves anything, but if there is a comparison, then try to compare in a more balanced manner.

[Guy1]

Re: Religious extremists in 3 faiths share views:

semihole dear,again u r playing words game like u have been doing again and again on world affairs to give badname to muslims....
Wars r part of life...accept tht...otherwise there would have not been so many fights in the history of mankind...if mohammaed(pbuh) said to not to fight against ur enemy then it would not have make sense...Mohammad(pbuh) forgave those people,who tried to killed him,tortured him painfully and killed his people,at the time of victory of Mekkah..tht is the biggest example of "non violence" in the history of mankind..no where islam says to kill people or do fighting..jehad means to strive in general sense...ur arguement does not hold wait....

and plz tell me WHO FORMED CHRISTIANITY"...some peter or jesus(pbuh)...answer is peter...
which version of bible u will prefer as there r jobs,exotics,luke gospel,acts and various others?...there r literally hundreds of scientific and mathematical errors in bible..wht do u usay abt tht?...word "trinity" is not even mentioned just once in bible which formed the very important believe of christianity...

u christians say jesus(pbuh) was the son of holy ghost...now please wait a minute..for me tht is a huge disrespect for a prophet...we muslims called his birth "miracle"...we muslims have a chapter in Quran on the name of jesus(pbuh) mother marium...there is not a single chapter in bible abt her...
do answer these questions..

and where Quran contradicts science and logic??..just give me a single example and i back down...christians scholars tried to did tht but failed miserably and u check out urself on youtube and google..even non muslims accept tht Quran is as same as 1400 years back..
the only thing left is hadith..as i told u my dear..this is not the place to learn abt islam...there r many bogus sites containing poor material and no one on this forum knows islam completely including me...thousands of haidths r unquestionable like sahih bukhari,muslim etc...we have the whole chain of narrators and even their credibility measurement.......a sheikh ul hadith will give u a proper guidance...many people in order to proof their point change words of hadith and from there problem arises...otherwise thousands of hadiths r their actual form...and no where islam says "we will save hadiths"...it talks abt quran...and as i said even non muslims believe tht quran has not been change...

we muslims dont have any problem with hadith regarding how to pray or many other things..it is the creation of secular minded muslims who actually questioned them...as i said we have the whole chain narrators and even tht helps in making the categorization of haidths like "reliable","weak"...as i sai contact any sheikh ul hadiths...do reply my questions

[Seminole]

Re: Religious extremists in 3 faiths share views:

so its how you interpret the message and see the peaceful aspects of it rather then other aspects including the second coming and the chitrol of locals in jerusalem upon return etc.

Yes, it's all about how you interpret the message, that's my point. Look at the way Christianity was interprted for centuries and continues to be - emphasis on the fire and brimstone scare tactics of the Old Testament, and over-emphasis on the holiness of Mary, using scritpure to justify murder, slavery and war or using scripture to justify intolerance while ignoring passage after passage that told people to NOT judge or be intolerant of others. There isn't ONE interpretation of any religoin, no matter how much the followers would like to pretend or wish there is.

I don't believe in the literal translation of any scripture, I think the Bible and Quran usage imagery and allegory to make their point. I came to that realiztion when studying Noah's Ark and Adam and Eve as a small child and have only become more convinced as I grew older. The story of revelation I put in that same category. I don't see Jesus be a sword wielding warrior in his frist, 2nd or 3rd coming.

[quote]
what we cant do is compare one's personal view and interpretation and feelings for one item with the specifics of the other. I dont quite see why this discussion going on is really even useful or solves anything, but if there is a comparison, then try to compare in a more balanced manner.
[/quote]
Personal view and intepretation is all we have. Unless you want to show me where even Islam, in its attempt to be monolitih has one intepretation. Show me the definitive "ruling" on if we can eat shrimp. So balance is up to the individual and their interpretation. I refuse to follow the version of Jimmy Swaggart, James Dobson or anyone else.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Religious extremists in 3 faiths share views:

so basically its less of what the divine text says but how its interpreted, therefore criticism of any verses in the text is not warranted but the criticism of the people who are interpretting it a certain way is warranted.

fine. I can live with that.

what we cant have is

christianity is a, even though it says b in bible, because we interpret it as A
and
islam is a, because it says a in quran,

seperate text from interpretation. I have had these discussions before where ppl criticize islam and show me verses, I provide them context of those verses and then also share verses from the bible. Then they go and say well we dont follow those verses and interpret them as such. alright then, so then dont show me quran and say...oh but quran says this, because I will be able to show you similar stuff in the bible. we can then however talk about intepretations and applications and then a good discussion can be had. One thing that falls thru here is that some of the stuff that is pretty obvious in quran can not be intepreted to become allowed. so if adultery is not allowed, its not allowed, we cant interpret it to mean that it is allowed, same for christianity if something is not allowed clearly, an interpretation can not allow it. hadeeth that goes against quran can not be accepted, except for some who have said so even on this site that it supercedes quran.

you and I seem to be on the same page. I just get frustrated when ppl wave verses from quran and shake their fingers in front of me and say bad bad, you guys... and then when I go thorugh the effort of showing them the same in bible then they go in a diff direction.

Blame muslims for misinterpreting or abusing the words..as many muslims say about the extremists anyways and that is fine, but then when I see right wing nutjobs like that 700 club dude and assorted evangelists, popes and what nots have a lopsided argument then I give up on people's desire to understand and communicate, and see it as just a way to prove the other side as being bad.

[Seminole]

Re: Religious extremists in 3 faiths share views:

There are plenty of verses in the Bible that can be construed by some as condoning violence and intolerance. I'm not claiming the Bible to be above the Quran in that aspect. Chritians have been doing it for centuries.

There are plenty of nutjobs in leadership positions in the church today and I agree, they aren't concerned about communication, understanding or interfaith dialogue - only to consider themselves as righteous and other religions as dubious at best.

[USResident]

Re: Religious extremists in 3 faiths share views:

so basically its less of what the divine text says but how its interpreted, therefore criticism of any verses in the text is not warranted but the criticism of the people who are interpretting it a certain way is warranted.

fine. I can live with that.

what we cant have is

christianity is a, even though it says b in bible, because we interpret it as A and islam is a, because it says a in quran,

seperate text from interpretation. I have had these discussions before where ppl criticize islam and show me verses, I provide them context of those verses and then also share verses from the bible. Then they go and say well we dont follow those verses and interpret them as such. alright then, so then dont show me quran and say...oh but quran says this, because I will be able to show you similar stuff in the bible. we can then however talk about intepretations and applications and then a good discussion can be had. One thing that falls thru here is that some of the stuff that is pretty obvious in quran can not be intepreted to become allowed. so if adultery is not allowed, its not allowed, we cant interpret it to mean that it is allowed, same for christianity if something is not allowed clearly, an interpretation can not allow it. hadeeth that goes against quran can not be accepted, except for some who have said so even on this site that it supercedes quran.

you and I seem to be on the same page. I just get frustrated when ppl wave verses from quran and shake their fingers in front of me and say bad bad, you guys... and then when I go thorugh the effort of showing them the same in bible then they go in a diff direction.

Blame muslims for misinterpreting or abusing the words..as many muslims say about the extremists anyways and that is fine, but then when I see right wing nutjobs like that 700 club dude and assorted evangelists, popes and what nots have a lopsided argument then I give up on people's desire to understand and communicate, and see it as just a way to prove the other side as being bad.

Some good points in this post.

[CheGuvera]

Re: Religious extremists in 3 faiths share views:

Some “peaceful” message brought by Jefus…

The “full” quote, according to the NASB translation of the Bible, reads (Jesus speaking):
“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB) The Lukan parallels (12:49–53,14:25–33)

NASB*" 49 I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism* to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished! 51 Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; 52 for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father* against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law. (Luke 12:49-53)* KJV*"49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! 51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (Luke 12:49-53)* Verse comparisonNASB*“If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.”* (Luke 14:26) And in Luke 22:35-38
“But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.” (Luke 22:36 NASB) And the related Gospel of Thomas 16 (non-canonical) (SV) reads:

"Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war. For there will be five in a house: there’ll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone.