Religion vs Faith

[vineshvk]

Re: Religion vs Faith

^ Oh really.. i thought it was about all religions and faiths..sorry!!!!

[Raihan]

Re: Religion vs Faith

the mini-discussion between me and rvikz, which you interrupted, wasn't.

[828]

Re: Religion vs Faith

@Raihan

It’s not up to us to decide and your scenarios contain very few details.

There is an example of a Muslim who is devout, prays, fasts i.e. fulfils all his obligations yet Allah(swt) sent angels to destroy that city. When the angels said shall we take that man out of the city first, Allah(swt) said destroy him first and then destroy the city because his face didn’t even grow red with anger when he saw all the evil around him.

As well as shattering the generally held idea that keep yourself to yourself and don’t say anything to anyone it shows it is not enough to just fulfil your obligations.

If you ask who is the better person then the answer would be the result of whatever is the generally accepted concept of good and bad. According to secularism a dictator is good if he sells them cheap oil or recently if Sudan joins the war on terror then Sudan is an ally and is good otherwise Sudan is involved in genocide. So it all depends on what your belief is. Whether your belief is secularism or whatever the ideology you have convictions in.

What we have to accept as a fact is that secularism cannot decide good and bad and only Allah (swt) can decide good and bad. I don’t have ‘blind faith’ in Allah, I am convinced Allah(swt) exists through use of the mind.

I think you are presumming what “secularism” would have to say about the two situations you just gave. You cannot make your point based on you fixing the morality of secularism by your own negative bias towards it. Secularism allows the difference of opinions which leads to a discourse of its people as to what are the pros and cons of the problem at hand, without painting a large brush of good/bad preemptively; since things aren’t black n white. Your ‘secularism’ is simply the imperialist government of George Bush, of which half the people of that country disagree with him. I sincerely doubt that George Bush can be held as an example of “secularisms” viewpoint on issues..just like you cannot hold many Muslim leaders as an example of Islam’s viewpoint on issues. What you are referring to in the examples is primarily an extreme Imperialist-Capitalist ideology.

[Raihan]

Re: Religion vs Faith

So secularism only represents the 'nice' issues does it? Next you're going to tell me they don't drop bombs they drop flowers.

The fact is that Bush can justify his actions through secularism, a paedophile can justify his actions through secularism, any Muslim who commits a crime cannot justify it through Islam.

The reality is every secular state is involved imperialism or aspires towards it.

[system]

Re: Religion vs Faith

@Raihan

So secularism only represents the ‘nice’ issues does it? Next you’re going to tell me they don’t drop bombs they drop flowers.

The fact is that Bush can justify his actions through secularism, a paedophile can justify his actions through secularism, any Muslim who commits a crime cannot justify it through Islam.

The reality is every secular state is involved imperialism or aspires towards it.

Same can be said for the religous empires: Christian crusaders ended up being imperialists; Muslim armies invaded the SUb-Continent and became its imperialist rulers; Hordes of Spanisg crusaders saled from the shores of Europe and landed on the shores of South and North America (Today), rest is history. Point being, imperialism is something all states have practiced one time or the other. Secularism is a political idealogy, just like the religous concepts. It is the people who apply these ideas for their personal benefit or aggrandizement who bring a a bad name to their basic tenets.

[Raihan]

Re: Religion vs Faith

There was no Islamic empire if that was the case then how could the 'conquered' become rulers.

[system]

Re: Religion vs Faith

@Raihan

There was no Islamic empire if that was the case then how could the ‘conquered’ become rulers.

^
?? Iam sorry, didnt get you there

[masterofall240]

Re: Religion vs Faith

@Raihan

There was no Islamic empire if that was the case then how could the ‘conquered’ become rulers.

Who were these conquered who became rulers?