Relatives back in India

[bella_Rouge]

Re: Relatives back in India

@OneYourMomWarnedAbt

But not among muslims in India. There was another thread about castes, and most Indian muslims did not even know what caste they were. KKF can clarify, but am sure he meant that comment about indian muslims, since his relatives in India are muslims. From what I see and know, muslims in India get along fine regardless of caste and class. Even the Shia-Sunni issues are not that serious; they even inter-marry.

Well good for them, but poster KKF was going on about how class conscious Pakistanis who dont care about their poor relatives. Caste system topic was brought up by another poster as a retaliation that in India caste system is big deal even now. People are not always lovey dovey to all their rishtedaar, which has nothing to do with their wealth at all. That’s what ticked everyone off. You don’t diss a country’s people and not expect a reply.

[Mezhgan]

Re: Relatives back in India

@Maula_Jatt

Youre half paki by birth deeba. Based on that and what you type, you seem about as Paki as Zayn Malik.

This is not directed at MJ specifically as several people had made similar comments but..

With all due respect to everyone, everyone expresses and appreciates their heritage in their own way and it is not for one person to dictate how Pakistani or not someone is. People are extremely diverse and the fact that someone does not interpret and appreciate their heritage in the same way you do does not mean that they are not a “real pakistani.”

Secondly, culture is not some static artifact that is untouchable and must never be questioned. It is quite possible to appreciate your culture and still question aspects that don’t resonate with you personally while still being a “real Pakistani.”

[Shak]

Re: Relatives back in India

@KKF

well, what you are saying can also be termed as ‘personal’ experience. i’ll leave at that…may be we are both wrong or both right or both partially right and partially wrong…

…i’ll let others decide.

Noone is disputing your personal experience.

However for you to say that Pakistan has class problems unlike India when India has massive caste issues (the knowledge of which doesn’t require personal experience) is deliberately misleading.

[KKF]

Re: Relatives back in India

why can’t i access page #5 of this thread?

[Southie]

Re: Relatives back in India

Generalizations r unhealthy.

Having said that, Pakistan batsmen …

[Harappan]

Re: Relatives back in India

@PyariCgudia

Do people have extended relatives back in India, family members that decided to not leave at or after partition and are still there?

I have family across the border, but my attitude is, you chose to stay there, so great stay there. I don’t care to know who you are or to keep in touch.

I don’t, only a minority of Pakistanis(like around 7-10%) descend from immigrants from India, so only a minority would have extended family there, but as time passes the relations get less relevant, and in a few generations it wouldn’t matter.

[shaasavera]

Re: Relatives back in India

@bella_Rouge

Well good for them, but poster KKF was going on about how class conscious Pakistanis who dont care about their poor relatives. Caste system topic was brought up by another poster as a retaliation that in India caste system is big deal even now. People are not always lovey dovey to all their rishtedaar, which has nothing to do with their wealth at all. That’s what ticked everyone off. You don’t diss a country’s people and not expect a reply.

I agree with you KKF shouldn’t have said that. Actually if you look back at the comment on page 1 ( i think?) i was the first person to criticise his views. I have never been to Pakistan and have no relatives but both me and Southie, both Indians, disagreed with this statement. Instead i posted positive articles that showed the opposite that Pakistanis are actually the most philanthropic out of all south asians. Yet KKF’s comments were the ones taken by others to represent all Indians and 2 pages resulted from this discussion. Maybe it’s human nature to notice the negative but not the positive. Who knows? I found this interesting.

I just don’t think generalisations about countries/nationalities should be made regardless of which country is being generalised.

[shaasavera]

Re: Relatives back in India

@Southie

Generalizations r unhealthy.

Having said that, Pakistan batsmen …

Inzaman ul Haq is pretty good. Pakistani bowlers are a class of their own.
generalisations are unhealthy as are unnecessary personal attacks.

[shaasavera]

Re: Relatives back in India

@Maula_Jatt

bahahahaha

You think Pakistan is class status conscious and india is not.

You must have a sunshine and rainbow view of indian society. A society with a rape culture that seems to stem out of caste/class issues. The birth place of the caste system in the subcontinent.

It happens worse in India than anywhere else on the planet. Literally.

Funny…I never you see you talk about that. You’re always more concerned with Pakistan and Pakistanis.

You should take a look at the fresh batch of outsourced employees that are coming out of India nowadays. I know several indian employees that work on the very same floor but show a negative attitude towards each other because of their belief in the caste system. Many have been terminated and sent back because of negative behaviour to people of “lower caste”.

Yes a number of Pakistanis are class conscious. India however is the world capital of atrocities and discrimination arising from caste and class differences.
Maybe you should be more concerned with issues that plague the Indian society. Where police ignore rape cases based solely on caste. Trust me, they are a lot worse.

PCG’s ideas dont represent the majority of Pakistanis. Not many here or anywhere for that matter would seriously agree with such outrageous and insulting statements.

However, for you to group all Pakistanis like that and then go on to wave a proud indian flag is your disgusting resentment towards Pakistanis.

You’re the PCG equivalent from India.

You are perfectly right to criticise generalisations and attack that but why personally attack someone’s personal qualities? how does that contribute to discussion?Also, as an Indian Muslim KKF does not believe in caste system and was just talking of his family in India. Discussion of rape and the caste system really does not fit this. Neither of our countries are great at women’s safety so i don’t think it is a point of comparison. The only similarity with PCG is the generalising part but apart from that he still keeps in contact with his relatives.

[shaasavera]

Re: Relatives back in India

@KKF

alright…if that makes everyone happy then let it be.

Really KKF bhai i know your intentions are good and you care about your relatives in Pakistan but aap please generalise mat kariye comments mein. when i initially read it i thought you might be referring to just your family but if you were generalising all Pakistanis then that is not right. Read the article i posted on my comment about Pakistanis being most philanthropic out of all asians. I feel when you even accidentally generalise then people may think all Indian Muslims think that and the belief that some Indian Muslims have a chip on their shoulder or they are being critical/extra-patriotic takes away from the other positive statements you make. If you ever do you shouldn’t ever feel under pressure to prove anything.

[shaasavera]

Re: Relatives back in India

@gudiaali

i will be thrilled to know that your relatives back in India would also have this attitude towards you!
absurd attitude seriously.

We have lot of family in India, at the time of migration only my Grandfather moved to Pakistan, all his siblings chose to stay in India(Gujarat state). Now they all scattered to different parts in India and US/UK. But we are still closely connected to them and they to us. We visit India and have relatives visit us from there.

It’s interesting that aap aur muqa bhai itne open minded hain in comparison to some living abroad. Even Microbian living in Pakistan and the Kaur living in India get along well.
It shows that living abroad in West does not make one free of judgements and living in India/Pakistan does not mean that one is close minded. People would say that both of you have more reason to hate India/Indians because of negative news/lack of contact. Maybe the same for the Kaur if one simply blindly listens to media. The fact that you both think beyond that and can see people as people makes me believe in insaniyaat.
Hope you had good experiences on your visit to India.

[S02]

Re: Relatives back in India

I’m glad that my Pakistani family never raised me with the hostility and bias I see in the OP. It’s completely strange to me.

How pathetic to hold on to such feelings for decisions that really have nothing to do with you.

And yes, we have extended family in India, and we are all in touch.

[S02]

Re: Relatives back in India

@PyariCgudia

They may be relatives, but fact of the matter is, they don’t like Pakistan. They don’t like the country YOU stand for. They don’t like the PEOPLE who are now your brethren by the choice of your grandfathers who decided to move to Pakistan.

They don’t like us. So then I don’t really care to know who they are or keep in touch.

They’ve all had a choice to move since then, and be part of Jinnah’s dream of a muslim nation. They decided to stay with hindus and be minorities instead and then play up to the hindu majority. Yes, including people that may be your relatives. Maybe they are nice to you at your chai parades with them, but they do not have any positive feelings for Pakistan.

And that’s treachery to your religion, in my book.

All of us have the choice to be part of Jinnah’s dream, and for a variety of reasons, despite our love and hope for Pakistan, many (most?) of us posting here are not living in that nation. That doesn’t mean we wish it ill.

Why would you take these choices so personally? They’re much more complicated than you’re making them out to be.

[shaasavera]

Re: Relatives back in India

Good news PCG you can discuss popular Pakistani dramas with your relatives in India in an official way as popular Pakistani dramas will be showing across India in a channel catering just to Pakistani dramas.

When you say they don’t like Pakistan or they don’t like the country you stand for…who is the “they” you refer to. Surely the government does not represent the average person in any country.

Is the “they” referring to people who are enjoying Pakistani dramas which have launched just a week ago or to test audiences who had never had got a chance to see Pakistan but once they had they were excited to notice similarity.

Or the people who along with Imran Abbas are launching this channel in India?

Those liking the content

or displaying the content

Not trying to change your views or make you feel any positivity towards Indians. This is just to let you know that Indians living in India of any religion does not automatically equal hating Pakistan etc. Each person is an individual. Just showing a cross section of Indian youth living in India (the only place where this channel has launched and been seen). I also hope it will make you feel positive about appreciation for pakistani dramas outside of pakistan.

I had made a friend from India on GS. He had lived in India all his life in a conservative family and never met a Pakistani or had much knowledge on Pakistan apart from what was heard in the media. Unlike those of us who have lived abroad.Despite all the media nonsense he probably had to see on the news he knew there was more than that and always wished to have a Pakistani friend to learn about the culture, way of life, to learn about Pakistani society, the thoughts/beliefs of ordinary Pakistanis and see if life is really different on both sides. Maybe even one day to meet a Pakistani person. It was just as simple as that. He was anxious and nervous about joining GS and he didn’t know what to expect. He didn’t harbour any negativity towards Pakistanis despite living in India all his life. http://www.paklinks.com/gs/gupshup-cafe/618694-not-sure-if-i-fit-here.html

Then when you said in a thread that majority of Pakistanis probably have an opinion against Indians he gave his opinion from his knowledge of Indians living in India. Not based on comments online or on a few Indians living abroad.

**

@chanduchamaar

Well i feel very weird knowing that 90% Pakistanis hate (us) Indians. I’ll tell you my side of the story.
No sensible Indian (or for that matter no sensible person) would hate on the people of Pakistan. People who do are just ignorant and stupid(though there are a large number of such people in India, in percentage terms they are the minority) I know a hell lot of fellow Indians who just can’t distinguish between the people on both sides. We look similar, we dress the same way, we eat the same foods. Among the sane Indians there is little or no hate for the common Pakistanis. Most Indians(including those ignorant and stupid ones who hate on Pakistanis) like to think that we’re brother’s who used to live in a joint family but later split due to whatever reasons.

**http://www.paklinks.com/gs/relationships/617650-indians-2.html#post9691836

yeh this indian guy living in india and not knowing any pakistanis people and being part of the majority must be automatically assumed to have negativity towards Pakistanis.

@chanduchamaar

HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY TO ALL MY PAKISTANI BROTHERS AND SISTERS.

kal muje bhi milenge free ke samose aur chai.

[SUB]until college(2012) free food was my only motivation to attend the independence day celebrations, sad but true.[/SUB]

Even on some of your threads he shared some common views with you. He had a good experience on GS and made some friends. Due to life circumstances he is no longer able to come anymore but his point of view represents the ordinary person in India.

[shaasavera]

Re: Relatives back in India

Also, please as another health professional rethink any generic hate you may have towards Indians and India by watching these videos. You may be touched by them. I am not asking that you stop any disliking you may have but at least rethink it.

Do these Indian doctors deserve your hate? Do those Indians who donated blood for these operations deserve your hate? Both the 2 incidents below happened in 2009 in a politically sensitive time. Still every year there are many Pakistanis with health visas who travel to India for treatment. They go with fear, anxiety, thoughts of hostility but return with love and friendship.

This happened weekend after in 2008-09 when propaganda was at it’s highest. Still humanity prevails. If there is any hate it may be at the official level, for show, for ratings, for votes but it does not exist at a deeper level.

This is from bangalore

This is from Rajasthan again around beginning of 2009. The patient was said he would never be able to walk again due to a spinal cord injury by doctors in Karachi after 3 surgeries. Him and his family were full of fear but they were completely surprised when they visited India. They felt only love and no hostility from the Indians..and one of the Indian doctors came back just from England so he could operate on this case and he was happy and proud that he could be of use to people from his neighbouring country.

[OYMWA]

Re: Relatives back in India

@shaasavera

Good news PCG you can discuss popular Pakistani dramas with your relatives in India in an official way as popular Pakistani dramas will be showing across India in a channel catering just to Pakistani dramas.

When you say they don’t like Pakistan or they don’t like the country you stand for…who is the “they” you refer to. Surely the government does not represent the average person in any country.

Is the “they” referring to people who are enjoying Pakistani dramas which have launched just a week ago or to test audiences who had never had got a chance to see Pakistan but once they had they were excited to notice similarity.

Or the people who along with Imran Abbas are launching this channel in India?

Those liking the content

or displaying the content

Not trying to change your views or make you feel any positivity towards Indians. This is just to let you know that Indians living in India of any religion does not automatically equal hating Pakistan etc. Each person is an individual. Just showing a cross section of Indian youth living in India (the only place where this channel has launched and been seen). I also hope it will make you feel positive about appreciation for pakistani dramas outside of pakistan.

I had made a friend from India on GS. He had lived in India all his life in a conservative family and never met a Pakistani or had much knowledge on Pakistan apart from what was heard in the media. Unlike those of us who have lived abroad.Despite all the media nonsense he probably had to see on the news he knew there was more than that and always wished to have a Pakistani friend to learn about the culture, way of life, to learn about Pakistani society, the thoughts/beliefs of ordinary Pakistanis and see if life is really different on both sides. Maybe even one day to meet a Pakistani person. It was just as simple as that. He was anxious and nervous about joining GS and he didn’t know what to expect. He didn’t harbour any negativity towards Pakistanis despite living in India all his life. http://www.paklinks.com/gs/gupshup-cafe/618694-not-sure-if-i-fit-here.html

Then when you said in a thread that majority of Pakistanis probably have an opinion against Indians he gave his opinion from his knowledge of Indians living in India. Not based on comments online or on a few Indians living abroad.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/relationships/617650-indians-2.html#post9691836

yeh this indian guy living in india and not knowing any pakistanis people and being part of the majority must be automatically assumed to have negativity towards Pakistanis.

Even on some of your threads he shared some common views with you. He had a good experience on GS and made some friends. Due to life circumstances he is no longer able to come anymore but his point of view represents the ordinary person in India.

From now on, am calling you…‘Silencer’

[shaasavera]

Re: Relatives back in India

@OneYourMomWarnedAbt

From now on, am calling you…‘Silencer’

I think I know the character reference but I’ll take it as a compliment since I have the talent of silencing convos on threads or changing their direction. Sorry to Ops everywhere. Don’t worry this comment won’t be an essay or thesis just a short story.

my point to Indians and Pakistanis is why not think of humanity of person rather than nationality or where they chose to stay behind. I also don’t completely blame people who generalise because they are product of media they consume.

I don’t get why anyone associating with anyone gets tainted. I think Sindh province has 90% of total Hindus of Pakistan. Does that mean people living in Sindh are less pakistani than other provinces because they live with people who ‘should’ have left with partition? Is dr Ramesh Kumar the pakistani politician who organised a free medical camp with indian doctors for all in Sindh, regardless of religion, an unwanted person? Free medical camp: Indian doctors reach out to Pakistani patients by fixing hearts – The Express Tribune

Are the peace clinics at ziauddin hospital where indian doctors follow up on pakistani patients treated in india tainted because the doctors are indian? Business Standard
Are pakistani patients who come to India because it is more affordable than overseas,and because demand is greater than supply less pakistani because they have gone to 'enemy ’ territory despite being received with warmth? I don’t think most Indians who saw indian sailors rescued by pak gov felt that way.

is a pakistani less of a pakistani if they have a donated indian heart or liver? Does a heart/liver have a nationality?
when life is at risk people don’t care of nationality. Emergency medical visas are sent through and ambulances rush through wagah border. Even cost is not an issue if person is from a lower ses a way is found out such as shared cost, reduced fees, treated for free etc .

There are good and bad people everywhere. How long, on what basis and to what extent will people get divided for. I tell this to both sides. Feel free to criticise gov, policies, prejudiced individuals but lets not generalise for everyone living on a piece of land or from a piece of land.

[shaasavera]

Re: Relatives back in India

You should get your relatives to watch new channel zee zindagi with only pakistani dramas. The theme song also has a pakistani flag in it.