Brother vroom … Please post a link to the audio file … Please also note that Yasir Qadhi has recently changed his views slightly.
But regarding the transcript you posted, if Yasir Qadhi wrote that or not … then that article does mislead people into believing there are parallels between Muslims and the Makkan Mushrikun.
First of all the Mushrikun were not strong believers in Allah. For them Allah was distant. Their intercession was of a different kind. They believed in gods each having their own independent powers and they could influence each other and coerce Allah (SWT). No Muslim believes that. The intercession we have is described in Islam it is present in scripture. And the Mushrikun … offered actual worship and actual rituals of worship to them. Whereas the shrines of awliya are not worshipped. The traditional Muslims merely believe they are places of barakah of Allah, because He Showers His blessings over His best servants even in their final resting places.
…Many Karachiites strongly believe that as long as Shah Ghazi’s shrine is kept clean and well-maintained, Karachi will always be spared from deadly sea storms…
I have to answer your question, not because I want to derail the topic but because what you have asked needs to answered to an extent that there is no allegation of Shirk upon Muslims
I didn’t read the article you posted, but a Shrine can not protect Karachi. It can not do anything.
The Wali resting in the Grave can do something, with or without a room [Mazaar] where the Grave is located. He can help avert both the danger and limit the destruction caused. How its different to an idol is that idol is a false god, where as the Wali is a Servant. The Abduls [slaves] of Allah Ta’ala can have the power of Kun [be and it is] by The Will of Allah Most Merciful subject to whatever Allah Ta’ala wills. How it works is that if they the Beloved Slaves Ask of Allah Ta’ala - Allah Ta’ala gives them and this is a specific Muslim Belief, where as what’s done with idols are not Muslim beliefs [they are Kufr] and Shirk [associating partners with Allah Ta’ala]
Taking the idol as an intercessor is an act of kufr, but taking the Believer as a Means/intercessor/intermediary/helper in areas where you need help it is not an act of kufr, nor of Shirk, but it shows deep understanding of Islam - and its the way of the Believers
For this understanding a few aspects of Islam have to be absorbed. If those elements are missing from a person he will not understand
I get the impression your materialistic needs are more then met in life and avoiding a natural disaster is not a particular priority either [it doesn’t have to be], basically you are fulfilled. If so, you stick to taking simple help from the Graves of the Believers such as Salam, offer them Salam, and they will return your Salam, and this dua will be good for you
This is what a lot of people in Pakistan believe. As long as the shrine is there, Karachi would be safe from natural calamities, a belief not different from: Mumbadevi Mata Temple (Mandir) – Goddess Of Mumbai
I ask a specific question: Are the people who believe that the grave of a person can save them from natural calamities following Islam?
Who appoints such ‘Abduls’? How does one know if that person is a ‘Wali’ and able to talk to God on your behalf?
Are Deities and Idols not just that. Beings with supernatural powers bestowed upon them because they are closer to God?
From ‘outside’ it all looks the same. Hindu Idols, Christian Saints or Muslim Abduls. It would be nice if you could provide some reference in Quran about how this Wali thing works.
The first intercessor is Rasool Allah (s.a.w.) on the day of judgement with the permission of Allah. There will of course be people of lofty stature because of their deeds and because Allah is pleased with them, but the first and foremost intecession is that of Rasool Allah (s.a.w.) and it is from authentic hadiths; the very first acts of intercession from Rasool Allah (s.a.w.) is to ask Allah to start the judgement when humanity goes from prophet to prophet (May Peace be upon them all). Then there will be other intercessions from the righteous, with the permission of Allah.
The dead cannot benefit anyone; they’re in more need of hasanat than the living because you and I still have an opportunity to maximize every moment of our life and to do deeds, while their records have been sealed. Purpose of visiting the graves among the Salaf-us-Salih was to remind themselves of the eternal abode, which is why Usman (r.a.) would weep at the mention of grave because that’s the first stage of an individual’s qiyamah and questioning.
If the dead could benefit anyone, they would have benefitted themselves more because every deed is priceless and every sin needs wiping.
Please do not paint everyone with the same brush under the guise of “way of the believers”. AlHamdulillah those who don’t follow your thought-process and perform their 5 pillars of Islam are also believers. It would be better if you were more specific and said “way of Myself and the Like-minded” because that is closer the truth.
Muslims are in great need of unity, and to come to rebuild the ummah for the sake of Allah, but it seems like every opportunity you get, your goal is to highlight the firqa-bandi as some sort of a distinguishing factor to label others, and decide who is a believer who isn’t, who needs to do taubah and who is saved. La haula wala quwwata illa billah.
Harm and benefit are from Allah alone. Whatever harm is intended for you, will come to pass no matter how many walis’ graves you attend, because they don’t have access to the unseen after their death. The karamat die with the person from among the ummah of Rasool Allah (s.a.w.). And if Allah has intended any good for you, you will get it inshaAllah whether you ask a dead Abd of Allah for intervention or not. To ask any dead person to intercede is not found from Sunnah; if it is please show evidence to support it. Everytime you’re asked for substance, you seem to dodge it perhaps because you do not have anything to base it on except for opinion of a scholar? There are thousands of scholars with varying opinions, we should use Quran and Sunnah as the measure, whatever fits is good and whatever does not fit is probably not beneficial because if it was beneficial Rasool Allah (s.a.w.) would have informed us of it because the Deen was completed within the life of Rasool Allah (s.a.w.).
Vroom said that the shrine doesn’t have supernatural powers, right? So let’s not hold him responcible for Karachites who may believe it does.
Hindu idols and Abdaals aren’t the same even a child would know this. The Abdaals are servants of God and everything they do is by God’s permission. Besides, we don’t worship the Abdaals like Hindus worship their idols.
I heard true Wali doesn’t go around announcing that he is a Wali. Is it true?
If its true, and true Wali doesn’t announce to anyone that he is a Wali, then what criteria do people employ in order to check whether a person is a Wali or not?
I give an example. There are two persons, both do apparently good deeds, are knowledgeable, talk right and outwardly appear to be saints. On what basis it is to be determined which one is true Wali and which one is not? (since only Allah knows what is in the hearts), so how come common folk pinpoint a Wali/Saint etc?
After studying the subject matter I believe brother vroom is correct about the erroneous nature of the said material provided by Yasir Qadhi, but I believe he was mistaken as I do not have the evidence to suggest he was lying, I believe a person like Yasir Qadhi would not lie intentionally.
The problem is less with his description of the behaviour of Muslims but rather with his inaccuracy in describing the Mushrikun of Makkah.
Makkan pagans were not believers in Allah (SWT) as a Personal Deity and not as Transcendent Deity. They were pantheists … This means that they believed all things manifest Divine attributes. They created their own gods to represent certain important faculties of their own lives. Such as “God of war” … They did not believe that anything could intervene in an independent decision given by a god over his own given area of expertise. Pagan gods were only as powerful as they had adherents. It was very much a numbers game. Numbers in that material wealth of a community worshiping a given idol would signify a more “powerful god”.
In theological speech “personal” God means that God has singular identity that separates Him from us, and “Transcendence” means boundless which is not compatible with pagan beliefs. Together these equate to God being utterly unlike His creation. Whereas this was not the case with pagan Arabs. Shirk is to make created things like Him and vice-versa … It does not include the functions of people and acts of God … It only includes the nature of God. If we look at our theology nothing is in place that says God cannot give power to His servants to do miraculous things … Rather the opposite is true. We understand this from the special criterion of Cause and Effect.
Just for clarification Sister, I cant actually remove myself from a belief that the shrine has supernatural powers because the location is blessed, as Psyah said it is a location of Allah Most High’s blessings. so if the karachites are saying the shrine [location] is blessed then I understand where they are coming from, and agree with them
What I meant was the shrine was not the cause of the Blessings but the person residing in the Grave there.
So going back to blessings upon the place, the blessings are only there due its Resident. And we affirm the blessings, which are only due to its resident, so what about its resident. If He, the resident, was somewhere else the blessings would be there. But He is here, and the Blessings are here
So if they have a belief that the place is Blessed, and the place is the Mazaar Shareef - then I would say they have a gift from Allah Most High
I love nit picking on you. yasir qadhi lied in that video, he went too far not to have. For example from what has already been highlighted he said they believed "there is no Lord other then Allah…‘’ and other statements such as saying the Muslims say “we worship this being, we make prayer to this being, we sacrifice to this being..”
Allama Syed Muzaffar Shah Hussain said it would be kufr to deny the mushrikin had gods besides Allah Most High. Makes sense, but i do not accuse yasir qadhi of this kufr. I do not think yasir qadhi denies that. Yet he has said what he said and we must conclude that it was lies meant to mislead. In which case the misleading would be deliberate
I had stated the word liar after much consideration i actually found multiple reasons for why the word liar was appropriate
The problem is both. It is bringing the two together at all costs. Bringing the two together was the whole point of that particular speech
It’s quite okay for you to nit pick … For a scholar or one whose words carry scholarly importance to say something without fully establishing the truth of that matter is tantamount to a lie … however, I would sooner not say that because I feel it turns people away from those who tell the truth … If they do so in a manner which can hurt sentiments of others then we are to be blamed for not being wise and giving nasihah or dawah in the correct manner which is to optimise understanding and for people to warm to truth … Facts are cold … The way we deliver them determines how well they are understood and accepted.
