Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

As Salam Alaikum

Recently a bit of a fan page was set up for an american named yasir qadhi. However the content was non Islamic, rather anti Islamic. He even lied upon the mushrikin of Makka to make takfir against Muslims and potentially Islam.

This is a beneficial topic because we are defending Islam against Takfir. Maintaining the Honour of the Believers who preceded us And learning Islam with a sincere intention, In Sha Allah

video transcript is as follows, he is lying about Makka mushrikin in order to align them with Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah, and Islam:
[warning this is false information]

“They actually believe in the same God that we believe, they believed in Allah. You see they never depicted Allah as an idol
they made idols of al-lat, al-uzza, mannat, of hubbal, all of these beings but they never made an idol of Allah, there was no idol called Allah.
because they knew Allah could not be represented by an idol and they knew Allah was their Creator, and their Originator and their Sustainer. Allah says in the Quran if you were to ask them who created you, they would say Allah created us. If you were to ask them who sends the rain from the heavens they would say Allah. If you were to ask them who supplies your food, your rizq, they would say Allah. The Quran says if you were to ask them who is The Lord of the Heavens and the Earth, they would say Allah
and this is interesting because their paganism is not like the paganism of modern religions if you were to ask them who was their god they would say krishna budha or something, no these are groups who say Allah is our God. and Allah our Creator, and Allah is our sustainer, and yet they are not Muslims. and we don’t consider them to be Muslim. even though they say there is no Creator other then Allah
and there is no Sustainer other then Allah, and there is no Lord other then Allah. So when the Prophet Sa sa sallam [SallAllahu Alaihi wa Sallam] is coming to them, He is not coming to them with a new God. He is not coming with a new deity, they know it is Allah who created them. Yet why are they not Muslim, well because they are worshipping idols. why are they worshipping idols when they know Allah created them. The Quran tells us Surah Zumar verse 3 Allah says if you were to ask them why are you worshipping these beings they would say ma naAAbuduhum illa liyuqarriboona ila Allahi zulfa, We are only worshipping these beings so that they can bring us closer to Allah.
Notice the ultimate goal is Allah. These beings are stepping stones, they are intermediaries, they’re simply tools we get to the grand deity and that is Allah. Surah Younus verse 18 Allah says they worship besides Allah these beings that are useless and they say these beings are our intercessors between us and Allah, our intermediaries, you see we’re too sinful, too unholy, these beings are holy beings, so we go through them to get to the holiest of holy and that is Allah. and notice here, now this is very important Their shirk is not in rejecting Allah, not in saying laat and uzza created me, not in saying laat an uzza will resurrect me, they firmly believed Allah is the creator, sustainor, nurisher, everything. by name Allah not rama krishna budha, Allah yet they are worshipping other then Allah,they say we’re too sinful, we need to use intermediaries to get to Allah, now this is important because unfortunately we have Muslims in our times, who fall prey to the exact same mentality. Word for word letter for letter, we’re sinful people, change al lat to wali, change uzza to shaykhh, change mannat to pir, and we get the exact same concept, we’re too sinful, we cant worship Allah directly, He is to holy, so we have to go through the saint, or they will say we have go through the Prophet [SallAllahu Alaihi wa sallam], we worship this being, we make prayer to this being, we sacrifice to this being, we invoke the blessings of this being because this being has a high status with Allah He will plead our case to Allah, and all of us who have family back home we know this is unfortunately common among the muslims around the world. this mentality is exactly the mentality as the jahiliya arabs, it is exactly the same and this is compounded by the fact that if somebody says how dare you compare a pir to al lat, how do you compare my shaykh to al-lat, the response is what is al-lat except a pir and a shaykh, what is al-lat. do you know the origin of al-lat, al-lat was a, al-lat was the main idol of Taif…”. .
[end of quote]

In the first video I watched of him, he said “..to approach Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala people [humanity at large] would go to the Anbiya, Peace be upon Them, and the First of whom would say I am not worthy go to the next Prophet, next Prophet would say something similar I am not worthy and so on to the next PROPHET!..”

I needed to get this written down and thread started. I will do my best to explain his lies, later. However lets have a simple example of his lie right here and now:

he quotes common Muslims around the world and says we say “we worship this being, we make prayer to this being, we sacrifice to this being,..”

This is an obvious lie because no Muslims say such things, never mind it being common around the world

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

Some points on Makka mushrikin

  1. Their Shirk was not the waseela/means they said was to get close to Allah, no, their Shirk was calling and taking the means they had invented themselves as gods. That is why polytheism is polytheism, because it involves multiple gods.
    If they had not worshipped their means, nor taken it as an ilah (god) then even after making a statue they would not be mushriks. However they were mushriks not because they took a Waseela but because they had gods besides Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala

2 The means they chose is similar to the materials Islam uses for our means. That is brick [Kabba Shareef] and stone [The Black Stone]. The difference is that they take their means as a god, and worship the means. For us our means stays as means/waseela
They had no approval from Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala for the means they chose, but we have been given ours by Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala

3 We have Awliya (useful) and they have Awliya (useless). The Quran and Sunnah is full of examples of taking people as waseela

4 Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala has installed Awliya and Prophets on the earth as His representatives (Alhamdulilah).
Mushrikin have set up partners to Allah

5 The main role of at least some of Mushrikin of Makka’s gods is done by Angels in Islam. So the Angels, Peace be upon Them, do jobs to run the universe as Servants of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala but in mushrikin religion this is the role of gods. and they worship these false gods. Some accounts say they had 360 idols

6 The mushrikin said God had become tired or otherwise stopped being one God without any partners. Islam says Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala is the Power behind the actions of His Creation, and none of them are actually needed.

7 The Mushrikin can say* their beings are their intercessors with the main God, In Islam we say they [our Beings] are our intercessors with God who has no partners. In Islam too we have intercessors but there is differences between us and mushrikin, and that is the dividing line between Al-Islam and mushrikin. *Mushrikin are liars

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

Imam Muzaffar Shah Hussain answers this allegation of newer sects and their representatives [like yasir qadhi] for the first 35 mins of this speech:
http://noorenabi.net/Download/Speeches/2014/Audio/mp3/0008-Sunni-Mushrik-nahin(20-07-2014).mp3

He has actually covered this allegation on other speeches. List of some of his speeches on Shirk:
Our Collection : Speeches on Aqaaid > Mafhoom e Shirk

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

:hm:

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

:music:
:rotato:

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

This is actually as serious as any issues could ever come to Islamic understanding.

Don’t troll just yet, i will invite you sady later to come have a say. I have not even started yet.

Come laugh, but later :slight_smile:

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

vroom,

I have seen you often stating that ‘Salafis’ are the followers of a ‘NAJDI’ movement which is basically (as per you) is a kaafir (takfir is the word you always use for them) movement.

I have one very simple question for you and I only need a one very simple answer from you to it. Maybe in one, two words just a one line answer for that because seriously, I dont read your posts anymore because they’re toooo lengthy without making any sense (atleast to me). So, if you can answer my one line question only with a one line answer, good. Otherwise please ignore my question. Thank you.

My question is:

Considering ‘Salafi’ is a 'takfiri (Kafir) movement, what exactly is the purpose (agenda) of those people who started this movement?

I will repeat my question with a different set of words just so that you understand exactly what I need to know.

The group of people who started the ‘Salafi’ movement, what exactly is their ultimate goal? You can use just one word to describe what exactly their goal is?

No offense but a lengthy answer from you will be ignored by me because all your lengthy posts are not understandable to me that is why I do not read them at all. Hopefully, you can answer my very simple one line question with a one line answer. Thank you.

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

What’s wrong with Yasir Qadhi? I haven’t heard his lectures but seems like he has a fan following. If he was that crazy then FBI would be after him.

He is on ISIS’s hit list so he can’t be that bad.

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

I barely read vroom’so posts for the same reason. I did read the whole thing this time.

I can’t comment on the ancient people of Makkah and exactly what they worshipped and whether they believed in one true God or not. Fact is they made idols and felt the beings representing these idols were real and had actual power. Whether they were intermediates to Allah or not doesn’t matter.

Furthermore where in the Quran does it ask the believer to take an intermediate? Whole fundamental idea of Islam is you need no Pope to intervene for you. It’s you, your prayer, and direct contact with God in your meditations during namaz. Simple. Multiple times a day. 5 or 3 or whatever you want to believe. There are all healthy activities for the soul.

Where in the Quran does it ask us to believe in pirs? To make humans into saints? This is ignorant behavior. Nowhere does it say we need intermediates.

Having an intermediate is not necessary. Whether it’s shirk or not has been a matter of huge debate not because of pirs and saints etc, but because if we call this shirk that means Shias are committing shirks with their Imams.

I personally don’t buy the idea of intermediates in Islam. I’d like to know where it says such in the Quran. Yes there are ayat references to imams in general but these are general terms meant for “religious leadership” and honestly simple meaning is look to those that are learned in Islam to help manage your societies. Pakistan does just this by Islamic committees that advice policy making and law making.

The idea of putting power in any one persons hands such as an ayatollah or pir or Sufi saint or anything like that is dangerous. These people probably never wanted mazaars and Dargas on their burial sites anyway and we have made a mockery of Islam doing this.

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

I heard yasir Qadhi, on isis and on turks 1914 etc.
He is ok or good.

But very scholarly and well informed.

are we calling him bad ?

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

In fact the concept of intermediates is exactly what’s discredited Catholicism and preachers in non-catholic faiths are cashing in on the same celebrity status. The rabbis of Israel - are looked to for the same purpose. The ayatollahs of Iran have used religious shia history to justify their leadership. Where has all their money come from? Read about the minor and major occultation in shia theology. It’s very interesting about the 4 shia deputees.

All these religions have one thing in common. They abandoned true belief in one God and that God doesn’t share his power with any other human. Even the messengers. They were given some talents and permissipn to see the “ghaib” and that too only some, not all.

Peers and such - part of what sets them apart in minds of people from an average scholar of Islam is that they have divine connections. Same with the concept of Imamamat in all the various shia sects. But if we say certain humans had divine powers then we are saying they share in Allah’s power. This can be debated on whether it is shirk or not because certainly the Imams and Peers aren’t considered gods. But attribiting super human divine powers to humans is dangerous.

Interestingly many of these figures never went around saying they had these powers.

Being a religious devout person who is a scholar and teaches people is different. That’s all these peers probably were - scholars of their time that died then people started pseudo-worshipping them.

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

Yeah, “liar” is a really strong word.

Agreed with the above post.

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

You guys have not waited for me write more on yasir qadhis comments before flooding the thread with general comments. there is too many comments to ignore, so I might find another way to delve into his speech to which I was alerted by sady. She thought i would agree with it.

I think yasir qadhi is a horrible choice to learn Islam from, or even allow to speak on Islam

It is actually the same effect taking place here, huge amounts of people are moving away from traditional Islam towards this protestant version. The protestants in christianity denied certain books - awfully similar to what is happening to Muslims. Unfortunately its not something we can tolerate in Islam, without consequences. The position of pope is similar to Caliph in Islam. The position of Caliph is not something deniable in Islam but its not something we have had for a long time.

Peers [and scholars] in Islam are supposed to be closer to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala in Islam. For one they are the inheritors of the Prophets. So Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala gives them ‘superlative’ understanding of the deen. Also through them and around them it is possible to ‘get’ things, and this is confirmed by traditional Islam.

Some told us of their powers, some did not, some of them we knew about ourselves. That’s not the main thing from a religious point of view, the main thing is who we chose to go to for help. And they all knew the way of the Believers, because it was the same from the east to the west. If they ever went to Makka Shareef or Medina Shareef, then surely they would have known! Any way we have their writings supporting Traditional Islam, that’s what they followed, and that’s what we follow - them. We did not make this up - like the protestant movement is propagating - this has been the way of the Believers since Islam began.

I want to talk about ‘pseudo-worshipping’, tell me about it

Also you said ‘liar’ was too strong a word - which means a) that its partly correct, b) partly wrong, do you have an actual opinion on what he said that is Islamically influenced or did you just want to put a good word in for him? For example in that quote he never once applied other gods to Makka Mushrikeen, he mentioned idols yes, worshipping other then Allah Ta’ala yes, but never once straight up other gods. The Quran translation is :

[Saad 38:5] “Has he made all the Gods into One God? This is really something very strange!”

**[Furqan 25:3] And people have appointed other Gods besides Him, those who do not create anything but are themselves created, and those who do not have the power to harm or benefit themselves, and who do not have any authority over death or life nor over resurrection

**Compare what the Quran is saying to him, he said the Makka Mushrikin believed :".. and there is no Lord other then Allah..‘’

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

As usual don’t understand you.

I will say: a pope is VERY different than caliph. Caliphs are not in divine ongoing communication with God (ie getting revelations), they can’t intercede for you on the day of judgement etc. They have no DIVINE attributes. That is different than knowledge of religion or spirituality.

I will also say that spirituality is a journey that any man or woman can make. It is not like you are born with some innate spirituality that others do not have. So the idea of a peer especially by inheritance is bogus. There are people that say the abilities of peers are hereditary or at least taught or passed on from father to son. Lol. One of the guys I spoke to for rishta told me his grandfather was a famous peer in Punjab (confirmed actually) and that he has a 6th sense. Told me he felt right about us, then did a 180 after meeting me. These people - some - are frauds. Others are spiritually very close to Allah but not because they inherited it from their father but because they worked towards making their soul very pure. People who have no connection with the Prophets SAW family have achieved this so it is only logical that this is not a hereditary aspect of a human. It’s acquired. Therefore you too could achieve this and therefore we owe no allegiance to people of a certain zaat just because the bloodline is there. Ex. Peer’s famolies now being major landowners in Punjab and now they’re in politics. Locals revere these people because they have a claim to blood line. My rishta who is descended from a peer goes to strip clubs I found.

So now what?

Everyone has a right to err and everyone has a right to achieve spirituality. It just varies. To mark some people as highly spiritual and learn from them is fine but after they pass praying at their mazaar is not going to help. Why do that when Allah has given you 5x namaz to contact Him directly? This is actually the very beauty of Islam. And this isn’t what sets salafis apart in their interpretation of Islam. Non-salafi sunnis think the same way.

Salafis have a badness to them for other reasons. I’m not sure if Qadhi is salafi or not but their extremists wahabbis are a real eyesore. But this concept of saints etc is nothing. The concepts for which wahabis are wrong are just different.

Vroom, why do u post this type of stuff? Yasir Qadhi has said in a bunch of lectures that he’s Sunni. And he’s such so well-educated and knowledgeable. I heard his Seerah of the Prophet (PBUH) lectures on YouTube and loved it.

Anyway… totally agree with everything PCG has said. The beauty of Islam lies in the one-on-one relationship with Allah. I don’t need to go to a peer for my dua to be heard.. (like Catholics go to Fathers for confession).

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

It is quite simple actually.

Anyone who disagrees with my interpretation of my religion is;

A) a deviant
B) a Mushriq
C) a Kafir
D) a Liar
E) All of the above.

Make a choice.

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

No you don’t need a peer for dua, but if you believe that intercessors and intermediaries are a non muslim concept, then im afraid the teachings of people like yasir qadhi have got to you. We must affirm the level of intermediation islam has given to be MuSLIMS.

I have given on this thread a basis for my hatred of yasir qadhi, there is an Islamic point.

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

PCG - No more life stories [please]

Answer the questions I asked you - about why liar is a strong word , and pseudo worshipping

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

The correct Islamic position is :

Asking directly

And

Asking through an intermediary

can be both correct

Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar

:wsalam: & Peace vroom,

So tell me what is wrong you found in the transcript as quoted by you at post # 1?