Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
the jist of my contentions is already there underneath the quote.
Some more coming up
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
Peace vroom,
Mind to share it again? 
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-philosophy/654320-refuting-wrong-beliefs-of-a-liar.html
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
Peace vroom,
very funny 
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
Is there something wrong? go read, simples
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
Peace vroom,
In your post # 1 where you wrote “warning this is false information”, I would like to know what is wrong/false information you found in quoted part?
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
he quotes common Muslims around the world and says we say “we worship this being, we make prayer to this being, we sacrifice to this being,..” # 1
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
Peace vroom,
Well I agree and disagree same at time with him. Yes there are some who say this and some other don’t do that.
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
What do you mean? Worship of ghairullah is shirk, no Muslims say this
The fact that he has used those words ‘‘we worship, we make prayer, we sacrifice to this being’’ is a form of deception and arm twisting
*please put thought into replies.
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
vroom,
so the problem phrase is referring Allah as “this being”. right?
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
the problem is everything he says, there is something or another wrong with everything because he is lying throughout. Its just deception
with regard to that particular part that is an obvious lie because nobody says those things which he says we say. “we worship this being, we make prayer to this being, we sacrifice to this being,..”
I expect this to be upheld as a lie by him, and a valid criticism by me
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
he was busy in taking Shirk away, lessening it, from the Mushrikin of Makka to make his point regarding the Believers [Muslims] he said about the Makka Mushrikin that they said “.., and there is no Lord other then Allah…” # 2
This is deception by yasir qadhi
The truth is the Makka Mushrikin believed in Gods other then Allah Ta’ala, minor gods Astagfirullah
The mushrikin said about The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam **[Saad 38:5] “Has he made all the Gods into One God? …"
**
In that quote he never once applied Gods besides Allah Ta’ala to the Belief of Makka Mushrikin. In actual fact they did have Lords besides Allah Ta’ala
*On the off chance a Muslim is reading this and is confused, I posted on post no 3 a link of an audio of Allama Syed Muzaffar Shah Hussain explaining this issue, and what people like yasir qadhi are doing in the overall scheme of things
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
^yasir qadhi makes the above deception in a number of ways for example " …they firmly believed Allah is the creator, sustainor, nurisher, everything. by name Allah not rama krishna budha.." # 2 continued
They actually believed in different gods of certain things.
**[Saad 38:6] And their leaders went about, “Leave him and cling steadfastly to your Gods! Indeed he has a hidden objective in this!”
**This was the basis of the Mushrikin opposition against Islam, they had gods besides Allah The One, The Only One.
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
I’ll get to what he actually means later, meaning will have a look at issues such as stepping stones, intercessors and intermediaries. We only have the clues regarding the mushrikin of Makka as to what he thinks about Muslims.
Some running commentary, so you know just because he is sat on a well presented youtube video it does not mean it is islamically correct
He says:
"They actually believe in the same God that we believe, they believed in Allah.
They believed in a God that has partners in His god hood. without narrating about these other gods any bayan about the mushrikin of Makka is a lie.
You see they never depicted Allah as an idol they made idols of al-lat, al-uzza, mannat, of hubbal, all of these beings but they never made an idol of Allah, there was no idol called Allah.
because they knew Allah could not be represented by an idol
As a point towards which they could acknowledge Allah they had the Kabaa Sharif. They used to circumambulate it, whilst proclaiming shirk
and they knew Allah was their Creator, and their Originator and their Sustainer. Allah says in the Quran if you were to ask them who created you, they would say Allah created us.
Although they had different groups and prospectives, Creator and Originator I will not contest [everyone could know that], but on Sustainer - I know they actually had a god for rain! Astagfirullah. Rain = sustenance, rain meant sustenance in a way we can not appreciate as much these days.
If you were to ask them who sends the rain from the heavens they would say Allah.
If you were to ask a Muslim who sends rain, they might say Allah Most High or they might say Mikaeel acting on the orders of Allah Most Merciful. So judging by this, it seems according to yasir qadhi the mushrikin have more Tawheed then Muslims. and if this is a part of his real dawa then in reality he is of the mushrikin himself - There is consequences for those who step outside the Tawheed as explained by Mainstream Muslims, and that is Shirk. Any one sufficiently far from traditional Islamic understanding of Shirk is a Mushrik. Tawheed does not change with time
If you were to ask them who supplies your food, your rizq, they would say Allah.
The Quran says if you were to ask them who is The Lord of the Heavens and the Earth, they would say Allah
and this is interesting because their paganism is not like the paganism of modern religions if you were to ask them who was their god they would say krishna budha or something, no these are groups who say Allah is our God. and Allah our Creator, and Allah is our sustainer, and yet they are not Muslims. and we don’t consider them to be Muslim.
Their position was:
**[Saad 38:5] “Has he made all the Gods into One God? …"
[Saad 38:6] And their leaders went about, “Leave him and cling steadfastly to your Gods! Indeed he has a hidden objective in this!”**
even though they say there is no Creator other then Allah
Even some Muslim sects believed in creators other then Allah Ta’ala. This is not a Sunni position but the mutazili firqa believed creation created their own action, their were not called mushriks for this because they said Allah Ta’ala had given this ability to creation, coupled with their belief that there was no god but One - they were not mushrikin
and there is no Sustainer other then Allah,
Not only did they believe in other sustainers but also believed them to be gods
and there is no Lord other then Allah.
A clear deception as shown above
…
i would have carried on but the post button was pressed accidently! However the above shows how he is being deceptive in his speech. I might do another commentary before looking at the effect of this kind of belief and what fatawa it carries for Islam, when we compare with our steppings stones, intercessors and intermediaries.
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
Man you write long posts.
Can you post the ayas of the Quran that support muslims going to intermediates to connect with Allah?
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
Peace vroom,
There are still many peoples who inadvertently do ‘shirk’, yet they’re not aware. That is what I meant when i wrote ‘i agree and disagree same at time with him’.
btw I have a question that we talk on such topic, you take it personally rather then discussing it in general sense like such discussion is related to you. Plz correct me if I’m wrong
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
his opinion was quiet specific, he gave a lot of details which were ‘exactly’ the same as the Mushrikin. It is very unlikely that he was talking about inadvertent shirk because the area he was talking regarding is something which is well known, and vouched for by the Muslims [we’re not worthy, stepping stones, running around for waseela but not always going direct to Allah The All-Knowing]. so what we are talking about cant be inadvertent because it is deliberate.
It is deliberate [but not shirk]
Im not encouraging you to talk on such topic at all, rather go make tauba [repent] for the comments you made the last time you talked in one of these topics [menk thread]! This would be correcting you
This topic is ‘showing’ you the narrow minded, non sunni, potentially non Muslim beliefs of yasir qadhi. It is not an invitation to argue, unless you want to.
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
Yasir Qadhi may be much more of a muslim, and a momin than teggy and vroom; only Allah is the final judge. Lets not kid ourselves in thinking we can label people, and Allah will not question us about it. Arrogrance will be the undoing of all our good deeds, if we die thinking we’re the righteous while others are in need of guidance. The truth is we’re all in need of guidance which is why no salah of ours is complete without making a duaa (Surah Fatiha) to Allah to keep us on the guided path and save us from deviance. The fact of the matter is that a person may be doing actions of people of Jannah, and just a moment before death he/she does something which lands him/her in Hell, and vise versa. Lets be fearful of how we’ll end up in those last moments.
May Allah bless us all with guidance, and mercy, and may Allah (s.w.t.) bless the efforts of Yasir Qadhi and others’ who have made it their life to dispense teachings of Islam while most of us pretend to be part-time scholars without substance.
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
I really do not want to sidetrack from actually looking at the speech and its implications.
Of course as for the ethics of highlighting and looking into this type of teaching I have as many reasons to do it as a person who is happy with his speech who suddenly does not encourage this type of thing. Having listened to well spoken Takfir of the Ummat with contentment
I have already shown some of his lies and deception. It is clear he was using lying upon the Mushrikin to bring them closer to the beliefs of Mainstream Islam, in order to make takfir of mainstream islam? we shall see
Re: Refuting wrong beliefs of a liar
A summary of his speech, just to understand what he means in relation to Islam and Muslims, rather then lies upon mushrikin as highlighted earlier
This is his view and what can be understood of it:
They believed in Allah, We believe in Allah
they believed Allah is their only Lord, and so do we
they knew Allah is their Creator, Originator, Sustainer, Providor of rizq and so do we
They said Allah sends the Rain, Muslims say the same
they said we are only worshipping these being to bring us closer to Allah, according to yasir qadhi Muslims also worship beings for the same reason
Their ultimate goal is Allah, and so is ours
they say these are our stepping stones, intercessors, intermediaries, tools to get to Allah and Muslims say the same
we go through them to get to the holiest of holy [Allah], and so do Muslims
Muslims say we have to go through the saint or they say we have to go through the Prophet [SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam]
they say we’re too sinful, we need to use intermediaries to get to Allah, and Muslims say the same thing
Mushrikin and Muslims are the same in this, and thus are both mushrikin
After mentioning Huzoor Pak SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam, he starts saying ‘‘we worship this being’’ "we pray to this being’’ “we sacrifice to this being”
he also says Pir, Wali, Shaykh is same as lat, uzza, mannat.
he says Muslims and Mushrikin that we invoke ‘the blessings of this being’ because he has a high status with Allah, He will plead our case to Allah!
[end of summary]
Interesting…Im not going to rush in, rather understand him, then take it from there