THe point is that no one calls these terrorists "islamic". They themselves DO. With a jaish-e-khialafah here and a kaish-il-mehmood there. Here a jaish....there a jaish..everey where a jaish..jaish. Their so called political stuggles would might even have a credence (never the tactics), if they didn;t equate violence with your much revered prophet and Islam in general.
Matsui: Please tell me, what would ,would make you willing to sacrfice your life for a cause?a threat to ones family, mother father, brother or sister) or to the country you have pledged allegiance too, or your neighbourhood, or your life savings or your entire neigbourhood or your way of life. Where would you snap? What level of humiliation could a human being like yourself take before what happens to their life becomes irrelevant? For soldiers it could be patriotism, people charging into a hail of bullets is considered a British example of heroism (the charge of the light brigade). When a people don't have an Army, and have tried sticks and stones (the first Intifada), what else do they have to give but their lives? I am not justifying acts against civilians, but the willingness to die for a cause is not unheard of in history. You only have to look at World War 1 and 2 for that, or for example when US or British pilots went on suicide air raids against Tokyo and Berlin, only for the sake of propaganda. You might dislike the idea of justifying suicide bombers, but instead of your holier then attitude, your reactions might be just as bad if put in the same situation.
Zakk :k: :k:
Unfortunately, be prepared now for the inevitable: your response is going to be perceived of as a blank cheque for supporting terrorism and you (and i) will be painted as no better than actual terrorists who do claim the lives of innocent civilians. Such is the world of those who engage in simplistic reductions for arguments.
At least I am not questioning the commitment of the suiciders - it is the bombing part that is objectionable. How the heck is the your noble cause served by blowing civilians and children? How the heck is your act noble when as cowards you sneak into homes and fire on family?
Even this you may defend as 'a different tyoe of war'...but what is the so called cause? because you want to pry away a piece of land from your neigbour? Did India ever come into Pakistan and take away your life savings or bomb the neighborhood? Who is the aggressor here?
So it is all easy to draw rigteous indignation from the paletenian cause and try to muddle the issue here in India but it won't work.
A great speech with no truth is how it goes down. If you call this jihad then jihad deserves all the bad rap it got, gets will get and more.
All of that dear Zakk or none. But I wouldn;t get my guidance from a Mullah after being brainwashed in a "supposed" school or mosque. Being told of heavenly pleasures for a sacrificing my life in the name of GOD's cause. There is a huge difference.
I will not make a video tape of my actions, hold the quran in one hand. Not Speak of my requisite virgins in heaven and use terms like "non-believers" and "infidels" in that video tape to be used as a propaganda tool to recruit others to do the same.
Because if Jihad is a struggle, it should be a personal struggle. Not someone else's.
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IceLander007, Why are you getting so touchy ? 
Do you even know what the meaning of ‘jihad’ is ? Who was referring to suicide bombing as representing a “noble” cause ? The argument that was made, was exclusively and clearly - that desperation, seeing one’s family members brushed off as ‘collateral damage’, or seeing your home literally reduced to rubble infront of your very own eyes - can bring out the worst in human beings. It’s easy for us, sitting thousands of miles away from Palestine or Baghdad, to pass judgements as though we are armchair generals. When one actually finds oneself in that situation, i imagine we would all act in an extremely desperate fashion.
If you disagree, fine. i can respect that. 
i DO respect that. Simultaneously what i refuse to respect is someone stereotyping an entire group of people based upon the actions of a FEW. i can do the same if i observe events in Gujarat where Muslims were massacred, and judge all Hindus in the same manner. Where would that get me? Nowhere rational, i am afraid.
Nadia, Zakk made reference to Intifadah...and you also did a thumbs up to that post. that's why I started on the immorality of suicide bombers.
you think I am pleased to have to change my opinion about Islam? do you know I dread meeting my Muslim pals when I go back to India because I don't know how they'll treat me and I them, after all the cross border stuff and Godhra riots? stupid religions have made true friendship miserable
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by IceLander007: *
**do you know I dread meeting my Muslim pals when I go back to India because I don't know how they'll treat me and I them, after all the cross border stuff and Godhra riots? stupid religions have made true friendship miserable
[/QUOTE]
*
i am sure they (your Muslim friends) are as scared of meeting you (a Hindu), as you are scared of meeting them. That's how this cycle of fear and hatred continues - because only one in a thousand among us possesses the courage to change our personal fears, biases and stereotypes towards others.
Where did I pick up the idea that Muslims are ignorant of their religion?
I picked up this idea at this pak.org gupshup website. Many Muslim participants have repeated it again and again. It is a fact.
When the Islamic States are questioned, they say this is not Islam or not as per Islam. (And so all Islamic States are rejected.)
Whatever act of Muslims is questioned, not only that of terrorists, answer is same. It is not as per Islam.
“Muslims are themselves responsible for defaming Islam’. I think, I have read these words in one of Nadia’ posting.
Why Friday prayers are exploited for political sermons? (This is also not as per Islam. Imams are rejected.)
I will never agree if someone says that Quran preaches violence.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zakk: *
Matsui: Please tell me, what would ,would make you willing to sacrfice your life for a cause?a threat to ones family, mother father, brother or sister) or to the country you have pledged allegiance too, or your neighbourhood, or your life savings or your entire neigbourhood or your way of life. Where would you snap? What level of humiliation could a human being like yourself take before what happens to their life becomes irrelevant? For soldiers it could be patriotism, people charging into a hail of bullets is considered a British example of heroism (the charge of the light brigade). .....
[/QUOTE]
Zakk, a very good question, but wrong audience. How can you ask a till-mouth filled guy, living a happy and rich life to imagine being in a desparate state? He/she/it simply cannot imagine in such a desparate condition. He/she/it will only be able to feel it when observed first hand. Whata pity.
Jihad as a political tool is never a noble concept...period!!!!!
Why is it that wherever muslims are in a sizeable minority, there are problems. Jihad is undertaken and violence fomented. Why can't muslims live under let's say Jewish rule, or Filipino rule or Indian rule, or Russian rule, or Buddhist rule. What is it within the cult of thought to not being able to live under anything other than a muslim dominated regime, hwoever perverse and bad that might be? Is it longing for hte glory days of yore? I don't see Romans, going into Egypt and fomenting violence through suicide bombings in longing for Pax Romana?
Do you think the problem lies in the fact that islam is "supposedly" the perfect system. And the very failure of the perfect system to not comeinto being is spawing, in Bernard lewis' terms, two schools of muslims. Ones who say, "why did this happen" (A more introspecting set, maybe like the jihad-personal struggle folk) and the others who ask "who did this to us" (A violence terrorist band that needs to find blame for the demise of this once great but anachronistic civilization)
So pick you jihad.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Jihad as a political tool is never a noble concept...period!!!!!
Why is it that wherever muslims are in a sizeable minority, there are problems. Jihad is undertaken and violence fomented. Why can't muslims live under let's say Jewish rule, or Filipino rule or Indian rule, or Russian rule, or Buddhist rule. ....
[/QUOTE]
If there is no persecution by the rulers, Muslims do live peacefully. Watch US, Canadian Muslim population :p
Sizeable minority chanda....a political bloc if you will.
**
Not every single Muslim is ignorant of his/her own religion.
Talk about stereotyping. This thread is rife with prejudices and stereotypes.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Sizeable minority chanda....a political bloc if you will.
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define further about "sizable minority"... how many would make up a "minority"? how many Muslims live in Canada, US ?
changez, what is "is"? What are you Clinton? Which part of political bloc don;t you understand? Do you want me to write in camel?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
changez, what is "is"? What are you Clinton? Which part of political bloc don;t you understand? Do you want me to write in camel?
[/QUOTE]
I know u understand camel more than anyone, its perhaps your jungle and desert life skill. No I am not Clinton, I don't have any intern. Perhaps "persecution" is what hit in your head. If Muslims were persecuted in Canada, US, UK as in India or other countries you would see jihadis on the rise.
Now cry all you want.
muslims will contentedly live as minorities as long as they are not burned alive....
Jihad; I see nothing wrong with the word. The day they pull the word "War" and "crusade" from the dictionary off the average English writer/politician, I might think differently. So Matsui when you hear your Congressman say a "war against the deficit" remember he's condoning violence:).
As far as the invocation of God before people launch suicide attacks is concerned, the invocation of whatever belief you have is a common practice by any group attempting militant action. I do understand not everyone would die for God, some would just die for a red, white and blue flag and the New York Stock Exchange.
A comment was made about Muslims not being able to live as in non Muslim states where in many of the countries Matsui you mentioned were Muslims the agressor? The War against the "moro's" was launched by the Spanish almost 4 hundred years ago, they wished to rid the Islands of the "infidels". Bosnia; who fired the first shot?, Kosovo? Chechnya? IN Russia's case the Muslim populations were acquired by CONQUEST. In India, which Muslims refused the authority of the Indian government?
The first intifidah, was a non violent protest check up your history, the problem with those sitting in Ivory Towers ia that they only realise their is a problem when THEIR lives or THEIR way's of life suddenly feel under threat.
If someone has a problem with the word Jihad, tough, I can't argue with those who don't want to listen. But if you are going to argue about History at least KNOW what you are talking about.
Mr Zhak, Do you want to say that present day Jihadis read only English version of Quran?
Bosnia, Kosovo…..who shot the first? Pls find out the ratio of two communities hundred years back….fast growing birth rate and then they demand a separate State.
USA was no more a Kafir in Kosovo war?
Chechnya…….are you sure that it was not a Russian land just hundred years back?
Read the history of Chechens! How present day Chechnya was formed?
Ms Nadia, is none of your fault. You have to defend against all odds. No need to be abusive. There is always a limit to intelligence and argues.
Have a nice day!