Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

There are times when there is no "2 sides to an issue". There is a side that speaks the truth. And a side that doesn't.

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

I edited my comment as it seems I was a bit harsher then I hoped. Agree to disagree, god knows I dont have the means to combat an army of 1 million men and 600 Million Internet nationalists.

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..


thank you, Med! :)

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

At the very least you should petition your govt to allow more freedom of expression for Kashmiris so you can get genuine and unbiased opinions. According to the article, there are spies and informants working for your army. Why are there no Kashmiris speaking for themselves from the Valley on the internet ? why are the people there silenced while you have all the freedom to come here and tell us what THEY are thinking ?

If there is an iota of conscience in you, you should see that when people dont have freedom of speech, then you cannot make any valid assumptions. Your govt needs to be severely chastised for that alone. And not by me, but by you Indians.

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

Med ,this is the Indian stand on plebiscite.Hope it will clear all doubts.

Indian White Paper on Plebiscite in Kashmir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Indian Government published a White Paper on Jammu and Kashmir in 1948 [SUP][1][/SUP] in an effort to explain the Indian position on the Kashmir dispute. This historic document contains numerous references to the issue of holding free and impartial plebiscite in Kashmir which deserve to be quoted in detail given that this issue of plebiscite is hotly contested[SUP][2][/SUP] issue today. The plebiscite was never conducted due to intransigence on the part of both India and Pakistan.[SUP][2][/SUP]
Contents

[ul]
[li]1 Indian Position on free and impartial plebiscite[/li][LIST]
[li]1.1 1947 [/li][li]1.2 1948 [/li][/ul]

[li]2 References [/li][li]3 External links [/li][/LIST]

Indian Position on free and impartial plebiscite

1947

Govt. of India, White Paper on Jammu & Kashmir, Delhi 1948, p. 46.
Telegram, dated 25 October 1947, from Foreign, New Delhi, to C.R. Attlee, Prime Minister of UK.
From Prime Minister of India.[Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru]
“I should like to make it clear that [the] question of aiding Kashmir in this emergency is not designed in any way to influence the State to accede to India. Our view, which we have repeatedly made public is that [the] question of accession in any disputed territory or State must be decided in accordance with the wishes of the people and we adhere to this view”.
Govt. of India, White Paper on Jammu & Kashmir, Delhi 1948, p. 55.
Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, Prime Minister, in a broadcast from New Delhi on 2 November said:
“We have declared that the fate of Kashmir is ultimately to be decided by the people. That pledge we have given, and the Maharaja has supported it, not only to the people of Kashmir but to the world. We will not, and cannot back out of it. We are prepared when peace and law and order have been established to have a referendum held under international auspices like the United Nations. We want it to be a fair and just reference to the people, and we shall accept their verdict. I can imagine no fairer and juster offer.”
Govt. of India, White Paper on Jammu & Kashmir, Delhi 1948, p. 77.
Telegram, dated 31 December 1947, from Foreign, New Delhi, to Indembassy, Washington:
[On 26 October 1947] In order to avoid any possible suggestion that India had taken advantage of the State’s immediate peril for her own political advantage, the Dominion Government made it clear that, once the soil of the State had been cleared of the invader and normal conditions restored, its people would be free to decide their future by the recognised democratic method of a plebiscite or referendum, which, in order to ensure complete impartiality, might be held under international auspices.

1948

Govt. of India, White Paper on Jammu & Kashmir, Delhi 1948, p. 3.
Nevertheless, in accepting the accession, the Government of India made it clear that they would regard it as purely provisional until such time as the will of the people of the State could be ascertained.

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

Med,your bolded statement makes the answer.The people of Hyderabad never wanted to stay away from India.It was just the Nizam and his Razakars.The majoity of the population was Hindus(85%).

As regards to Kashmir,I have given a link on both India and Mr..Nehru’s stand.

In both the states Junagadh and Hyderabad,the majority of the population was Hindus and the population revolted against the rulers.There was a plebiscite held in the former and 99% people voted in favour of India.

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

Agar batein manhoos hain to sub pani mein nikal jati hain.

You have said something in your domain and it does not mean that others should agree and accept it.

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

@Med911 @KKF @Southie

Kashmir Annexation to India | Kashmirforyou

Ranbir Singh’s grandson Hari Singh, who had ascended the throne of Kashmir in 1925, was the reigning monarch in 1947 at the conclusion of British rule of the subcontinent and the subsequent partition of the British Indian Empire into the newly independent Union of India and the Dominion of Pakistan. An internal revolt began in the Poonch region against oppressive taxation by the Maharaja. In August, Maharaja’s forces fired upon demonstrations in favour of Kashmir joining Pakistan, burned whole villages and massacred innocent people.The Poonch rebels declared an independent government of “Azad” Kashmir on 24 October. Rulers of Princely States were encouraged to accede their States to either Dominion – India or Pakistan, taking into account factors such as geographical contiguity and the wishes of their people. In 1947, Kashmir’s population was “77% Muslim and 20% Hindu”. To postpone making a hurried decision, the Maharaja signed a “standstill” agreement withPakistan, which ensured continuity of trade, travel, communication, and similar services between the two. Such an agreement was pending with India. In October 1947, Pashtuns from Pakistan’s North-West Frontier Provincerecruited by the Poonch rebels, invaded Kashmir, along with the Poonch rebels, allegedly incensed by the atrocities against fellow Muslims in Poonch and Jammu. The tribesmen engaged in looting and killing along the way. The ostensible aim of the guerilla campaign was to frighten Hari Singh into submission. Instead the Maharaja appealed to Mountbatten for assistance, and the Governor-General agreed on the condition that the ruler accede to India. Once the Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession, Indian soldiers entered Kashmir and drove the Pakistani-sponsored irregulars from all but a small section of the state. India accepted the accession, regarding it provisional until such time as the will of the people can be ascertained by a plebiscite, since Kashmir was recognized as a disputed territory. Kashmir leader Sheikh Abdullah endorsed the accession as ad-hoc which would be ultimately decided by a plebiscite and is appointed head of the emergency administration. The Pakistani government immediately contested the accession, suggesting that it was fraudulent, that the Maharaja acted under duress and that he had no right to sign an agreement with India when the standstill agreement with Pakistan was still in force. http://kashmir4you.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/shiekh_abdullah_pe_20070820.jpg?w=194&h=300The United Nations was then invited to mediate the quarrel. The UN mission insisted that the opinion of Kashmiris must be ascertained. The then Indian Prime Minister is reported to have himself urged U.N. to poll Kashmir and on the basis of results Kashmar’s accession will be decided. However, India insisted that no referendum could occur until all of the state had been cleared of irregulars. On 5 January 1949, UNCIP (United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan) resolution stated that the question of the accession of the State of Jammu and Kashmir to India or Pakistan will be decided through a free and impartial plebiscite. As per the 1948 and 1949 UNCIP Resolutions, both countries accepted the principle, that Pakistan secures the withdrawal of Pakistani intruders followed by withdrawal of Pakistani and Indian forces, as a basis for the formulation of a Truce agreement whose details are to be arrived in future, followed by a plebiscite; However, both countries failed to arrive at a Truce agreement due to differences in interpretation of the procedure for and extent of demilitarisation one of them being whether the Azad Kashmiri army is to be disbanded during the truce stage or the plebiscite stage.

The UN Security Council on 20 January 1948 passed Resolution 39 establishing a special commission to investigate the conflict. Subsequent to the commission’s recommendation the Security Council, ordered in its Resolution 47, passed on 21 April 1948 that the invading Pakistani army retreat from Jammu & Kashmir and that the accession ofKashmir to either India or Pakistan be determined in accordance with a plebiscite to be supervised by the UN. In a string of subsequent resolutions the Security Council took notice of the continuing failure by India to hold the plebiscite. However, no punitive action against India could be taken by the Security Council because its resolution, requiring India to hold a Plebiscite, was non-binding and the Pakistani army never left the part of the Kashmir, they managed to keep occupied at the end of the 1947 war, required by the Security Council resolution 47.
In the last days of 1948, a ceasefire was agreed under UN auspices; however, since the plebiscite demanded by the UN was never conducted, relations between India and Pakistan soured, and eventually led to three more wars over Kashmir in 1965, 1971 and 1999. India has control of about half the area of the former princely state of Jammu and Kashmir; Pakistan controls a third of the region, theNorthern Areas, or historically known as regions of Gilgit and Baltistan; and Pakistan Administered Kashmir. According to Encyclopædia Britannica, “Although there was a clear Muslim majority in Kashmirbefore the 1947 partition and its economic, cultural, and geographic contiguity with the Muslim-majority area of the Punjab (in Pakistan) could be convincingly demonstrated, the political developments during and after the partition resulted in a division of the region. Pakistan was left with territory that, although basically Muslim in character, was thinly populated, relatively inaccessible, and economically underdeveloped. The largest Muslim group, situated in the Vale of Kashmir and estimated to number more than half the population of the entire region, lay in Indian-administered territory, with its former outlets via the Jhelum valley route blocked.”

The eastern region of the erstwhile princely state of Kashmir has also been beset with a boundary dispute. In the late 19th- and early 20th centuries, although some boundary agreements were signed between Great Britain, Afghanistan and Russia over the northern borders of Kashmir, China never accepted these agreements, and the official Chinese position did not change with the communist takeover in 1949. By the mid-1950s the Chinese army had entered the north-east portion of Ladakh. : “By 1956–57 they had completed a military road through the Aksai Chin area to provide better communication between Xinjiang and western Tibet. India’s belated discovery of this road led to border clashes between the two countries that culminated in the Sino-Indian war of October 1962.”China has occupied Aksai Chin since 1962 and, in addition, an adjoining region, the Trans-Karakoram Tract was ceded by Pakistan to China in 1965.
In 1949, the Indian government obliged Hari Singh to leave Jammu and Kashmir and yield the government to Sheikh Abdullah, the leader of a popular political party, the National Conference Party. Since then, a bitter enmity has been developed between India and Pakistan and three wars have taken place between them over Kashmir. The growing dispute over Kashmir and the consistent failure of democracy also led to the rise of Kashmir nationalism and militancy in the state.
Following the disputed elections in 1987, young disaffected Kashmiris in the Valley such as the HAJY group – Abdul Hamid Shaikh, Ashfaq Majid Wani, Javed Ahmed Mir and Mohammed Yasin Malik – were recruited by the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front(JKLF) and the popular insurgency in the Kashmir Valley increased in momentum from this point on. The year 1989 saw the intensification of conflict in Jammu andKashmir as Mujahadeens from Afghanistan slowly infiltrated the region following the end of the Soviet-Afghan War the same year. Pakistan provided arms and training to both indigenous and foreign militants in Kashmir, thus adding fuel to the smouldering fire of discontent in the valley.

So India was ready for a plebiscite but Pakistan failed to acknowledge it.

Taken from a link…
WHO HAS WHICH PART OF JAMMU AND KASHMIR

[TABLE="class: datatable-default dataTable"]

[TH=“class: sorting_asc”]Regions[/TH]
[TH=“class: sorting”]Area in Sq Km[/TH]
[TH=“class: sorting”]% of current J&K controlled by India[/TH]
[TH=“class: sorting”]% of original J&K state in 1947[/TH]

[TR=“class: odd”]
Jammu region
26,293
26
12
[/TR]
[TR=“class: even”]
Kashmir Valley
15,948
16
7
[/TR]
[TR=“class: odd”]
Ladakh region
59,146
58
27
[/TR]
[TR=“class: even”]
State of Jammu and Kashmir
1,01,387
100
46

[/TR]

The rest of the areas are under the control of Pakistan and China.Now the matter is very simple.A plebiscite is ever to take place,it has to take place in the state as a whole.Moreover,Pakistan had struck a deal with China in 1963 and conceded parts of Kashmir’s land to China.

We are open and ready for a plebiscite.Now where is Kashmir of 1948?

Thanks.

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

I would go with Indian stand on this.A referendum can take place,provided all of Kashmir is free of invaders. This is the stand that was adopted in 1948.

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

Kyun aap manhoos batein kar rahe hain?

What does "said something in your domain" mean?

Where did I state others should agree and accept the truth?

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

Ye apka manhoosiyat ka ek aur nishan.


Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

I was simply returning that word to you. You are the one who introduced it in your response to me. Which was totally not called for.

Reminds me of the person who commits the first foul. And then cries foul when the other responds in kind.

But wait....

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

Pahlay apane pichhe paraye Bhai.

Now the topic is about high voter turn out in J&K polls.Please do not derail from the discussion.Thanks. :)

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

What does the first sentence mean? Do expand on that. Unless asking for clarification is derailing.

The derailing won't have happened if you hadn't focused on my use of manhoos AFTER using it yourself in our discussion.

Also, you have been doing plenty derailing with your long posts on the history. Looks like it is derailing when your "facts" are questioned. Sorry - rules are clear now. Won't "derail" further.

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

^
Thank you for your acceptance. :)

This is the topic: Record turn-out in J&K polls..

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

You are welcome. I accept that the word manhoos should not have been introduced in this thread. And that it's introduction contributed to the derailing.

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

^

Kindly stick to topic.Thanks. :)

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

I suggest you do too. Thanks.

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

^

Thanks for admitting that you derailed the topic :slight_smile:

@KKF @Southie @Med911

The high voters turn out happened amidst separatist’s calls for boy-cott.Tht means people braved guns and blatant threats from anti-social elements.

SRINAGAR/JAMMU/NEW DELHI: The Jammu & Kashmir electorate on Tuesday belied the ruling National Conference’s “fears” of a low turnout in the wake of recent floods, by clocking a massive 71.28% polling in the first phase of voting.

The turnout appears all the more impressive as the 15 J&K constituencies that went to polls are located in far-flung, mountainous districts of the state. While the corresponding turnout during the Lok Sabha poll this year was barely 52.63%, it was only a tad higher in the 2008 assembly poll at 64.97%. According to deputy election commissioner Vinod Zutshi, who chose to describe the polling in J&K as **“100% flawless with no incident to vitiate the poll”, voters remained queued up outside polling stations even after polling hours. **

The district-wise polling in J&K shows a major surge in poll percentage in Bandipora and Ganderbal, the latter being the chief minister’s traditional constituency. **While Bandipora registered a two-fold increase in turnout (from 35.24% to 70.3%) as compared to Lok Sabha poll held only six months back, the rise in Ganderbal was from 55% in 2008 state polls and 43.97% in Lok Sabha poll to 68% on Tuesday. Leh and Kargil too voted handsomely, while Kishtwar, Doda and Ramban recorded a 4-7% jump. **

Zutshi said as many as 43 sorties, by MI-17 and Chetak helicopters, were undertaken to airlift poll personnel and security forces to remote areas. The voter enthusiasm was best showcased when a 121-year-old lady voter, Noor Bin, voted in the Ramban assembly constituency.
Dealing a serious blow to separatist politics, thousands of voters had lined up before polling stations with nearly 10.52 lakh voters being eligible to vote.

Separatist groups like all the factions of Hurriyat Conference and JKLF have called for a boycott of the polls and a general strike as well.

A total of 123 candidates including seven ministers were in the fray with the ruling coalition partners National Conference and Congress and the opposition People’s Democratic Party(PDP) and BJP fighting for the spoils.

Early morning chill and fog failed to dampen the spirits of the voters who had assembled at the polling stations an hour before the scheduled start of voting.

The voting time had to be extended in several polling stations to allow those voters, who were already inside the polling station premises, to cast their votes.

Serpentine queues of voters could be seen at most of the polling stations even in the five assembly constituencies of Kashmir valley, where the turn out used to be usually lower than in the segments in Jammu division owing the boycott call by the separatists.

“Reports of brisk polling in the valley are very encouraging. Glad to hear turnout in Chenab valley seats also picking up,” chief minister Omar Abdullah said, commenting on the early trends of voting.

He wished “good luck to all the voters braving the cold weather” and urged them to vote in large numbers and “vote with your hearts”.

(Voters line up to cast their votes outside a polling station during the first phase of the Jammu and Kashmir state assembly elections.)

The lack of effect of the boycott call was evident from the fact that long queues could be seen even at polling stations where the separatists had posted their anti-election material.

Militants hurled grenades at two polling stations in Bandipora and Sonawari constituencies. The attacks failed to have any effect on the polling process as no one was hurt in the twin attacks while the voters stayed put to exercise their franchise.

A minor clash broke out between supporters of ruling National Conference and opposition PDP at a polling station in Baroosa area of Ganderbal constituency. One person sustained minor injuries but security personnel restored order and polling went on smoothly thereafter.

While most of the old timers turned up to vote based on their ideological affiliations, development and unemployment was the key issue for the first time voters.

“We want development in our constituency. We are not very far from either Srinagar (the summer capital of the state) or Bandipora district headquarter but we seem to be living in dark ages,” Farhat Jabeen, an 18-year-old voter from Sonawari constituency, said.

Abdul Majid, another first time voter, said unemployment was the biggest problem of the area. “We have not seen any one from our area get jobs in our area. We want change and we hope the new dispensation will grant us our wish,” he added.

**Abdul Gaffar, a 60 year-old, however maintained that the area had not lacked on development front. “We have seen the area change over the past six years and would want to continue it,” he said.
**

Re: Recod turn-our in J&K polls..

^So people's wish is for development and secession from India. Times have changed in Kashmir.Those who do not understand,fail to notice it and pretend to be ignorant ,better understand it. :)