supposing those who used to undergo lobotomies were happy afterwards for as long as they lived, wouldnt they be living the life we strive for? eternal, pervasive, carefree happiness.. heck thats what they say heaven is. and so.. the common answer .. that you arent really happy because life is so wonderful with its pain and its pleasures doesnt really hold does it.. because the same argument should then hold against paradise.
that man who tried to create his own heaven, and died before he could step into it, might’ve just drawn an icepick through the front of his skull..
it remains to be seen whether heaven is as carefree as we imagine it will be.
a good analogy can be drawn from the following: when in seconday school, we are often told that those are the years that you shud work hard cuz once ur in uni it will all ease up. Next thing we are told that the uni yrs are tough, once ur working it will ease up etc etc.
similarly we are told that the world life is tough but in the hereafter things will ease up. However, could it be that once we really are there we await even tougher challenges? But that this worldy life is to see who is capable to overcome those challenges? Likewise tests are taken in secondary school to differentiate who can pass to uni?
Just a thought...
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*Originally posted by NeSCio: *
it remains to be seen whether heaven is as carefree as we imagine it will be.
a good analogy can be drawn from the following: when in seconday school, we are often told that those are the years that you shud work hard cuz once ur in uni it will all ease up. Next thing we are told that the uni yrs are tough, once ur working it will ease up etc etc.
similarly we are told that the world life is tough but in the hereafter things will ease up. However, could it be that once we really are there we await even tougher challenges? But that this worldy life is to see who is capable to overcome those challenges? Likewise tests are taken in secondary school to differentiate who can pass to uni?
Just a tought...
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I already admitted that by saying that I’m going to draw an analogy
moreover, I also say that this is just a thought…and by doing this, the difficulty to grasp the concept of heaven for us humans is highlighted…
exactly
we as humans probably cannot think of how heaven is really gonna be like.
Simple fact is we have Allah’s word on it, it is the ultimate reward and if Allah willed it so then we’d think of a pile of dirt as paradise and be happy forever on it. However i doubt its gonna be a pile of dirt, or even anything close to that
You see, if you're a Muslim you do have some conception of what heaven would be. if it is that image of eternal blissfulness, then its because we know that from the source of creation, who has never lied, and who never will. At the very least, we know from 'khalideena feeha abada' that we will be rejoicing forever.
Maniac:
I agree with u.
But I guess my question is more about escapism than what Heaven would or woudnt be like.
the common retort to escapism like drug abuse or lobotomy in this case is that their happiness is synthetic. in the case of lobotomy.. that they do not know real happiness because they do not feel real pain. but isnt that paradise anyway?
i guess i have a number of thots about this that dont necessarily agree:
bliss, like a number of other things, is an indulgence reserved for the perfect world above, where there is no misery thus fewer social bounds. and so the analogy about heaven holds, but its still out of bounds.
knowledge is what seperates the two states. heaven is conscious bliss, stupor is unconscious bliss. conscious bliss is more desirable than conscious normalness which in turn is more desireable than unconscious bliss.
great geniuses are never appreciated in their times..
ek zamana aye ga when true bliss could either be achieved through the teachings of Ravage (pen name) or a lobotomy. most people would prefer the less painful route, but philosophy isnt for everyone eh?
^ philosophy like this really isnt for everyone, isi liyay toa its such a source of true bliss. hoo haa haa… u are wrong geniuses do get appreciated in their times…
u ppl forgot that hadith again which says that heaven is something like no eye has seen, no ear has heard and its likeness has not passed upon any human's heart....
so we really cant imagine what its gonna be like....
but if Allah says that therein there shall be no sadness or worries, we better believe Him....
i guess what i was saying was supposing there was a medical procedure to ensure a permanent state of bliss, for example a lobotomy or drug induced highs, how is that different from divine introduced bliss i.e. heaven? is there a qualitative difference or merely a possible increase in intensity?
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lobotomy or drug induced highs, how is that different from divine introduced bliss i.e. heaven? is there a qualitative difference or merely a possible increase in intensity?
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How about an increase in duration? Say infinite?
We are human and thus we look at everything as finite. We look at origin and end. It is hard for our feeble minds to imagine something that has no end or beginning.
To even begin to understand the concept of heaven and hell we have to first rid our minds of limits.
[Just thinking of no limits there is a multitude of thoughts surfacing in my mind dying to be typed out here and im having a hard time choosing which ones go down so ill just leave it to you to do the imagination].
