A very interesting documentary, shows how much of a black and white is portrayed to the general public.
What I gathered from this piece is that the situation of 89’ will repeat. Afghanistan will fall back into turmoil/civil war and warlords…
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
As far as what I gather from the situation in Afghanistan is concerned they don't care much. If Afghanistan falls into chaos after the departure of most of US's soldiers the country which would be affected most after Afghanistan is Pakistan. The Americans are safely positioned very very far away.
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
That is true. Before the American mission got sidetracked due to corporate interests in war, we have to remember it was majorly a payback to the Taliban and AQ that you f*ck with us, we are going to mess up your safe heaven. AQ thrives in chaos but the I think the ultimate losers were the Taliban as even a moderately supplied afghan govt security apparatus would keep the Taliban at bay from taking over the whole country. People like to look to Vietnam, but the irony is that it wasn't the US troops departing itself but the cut off of all aid to the South Vietnamese that did them in. It helps that an occupier is gone so the "resistance" can't go around accusing them of being puppets of the colonizers.
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
Any civil war in Afghanistan resulting in division of Afghanistan on ethnic lines, or control of taleban in the areas bordering Pakistan would have an impact on Pakistan. I am sure the army and government would be preparing for such a fall out. The US can just pack their suitcases and leave, unfortunately we don't have that luxury.
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
Considering how we "prepared" for N. Waziristan, you better pray such a scenario never happens. I think the establishment is like lodhi? who was procrastinating that babur is in Kabul, then elsewhere and finally he was at delhi but it was too late.
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
What I gathered from this piece is that the situation of 89' will repeat. Afghanistan will fall back into turmoil/civil war and warlords.......
I dont think, taliban are already ruling some parts of afghanistan. I dont think they will face any big challenge in regaining the power.
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
The Americans stated their primary mission was to destroy the training grounds used by Al-Qaeda and allowed by the Taleban. In that sense the West has won.
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
I dont think, taliban are already ruling some parts of afghanistan. I dont think they will face any big challenge in regaining the power.
As long as even a partial American footprint is there, then Pakistan can't and all likely won't give Taliban any big logistics like pickups, artillery etc that are game changers to take over a country. I also don't think that Taliban are in our interest anymore considering their spawns TTP and how the phenomenon is destroying Pakistan!
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
As long as even a partial American footprint is there, then Pakistan can't and all likely won't give Taliban any big logistics like pickups, artillery etc that are game changers to take over a country. I also don't think that Taliban are in our interest anymore considering their spawns TTP and how the phenomenon is destroying Pakistan!
For those who kept on believing that afghans won russian war only because of pakistan /west supporting, now taliban mujahideen are fighting with very little support from pakistan and no support from west. They still have control over many parts and i think that once USA runs away from afghanistan inshallah most anti pakistan elements of TTP will die soon but taliban in afghanistan will flourish. There are already news of Taliban attacking fazalullah in kunar , so once afghan taliban will get power they will forcefully stop all the nonesense done by TTP.
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
..... so once afghan taliban will get power they will forcefully stop all the nonesense done by TTP.
what? they don't like competing businesses to flourish?
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
what? they don't like competing businesses to flourish?
They dont want bad name to the business. :).
Recently mujahideen in syria announced removal of few khariji and takfeeri groups from their ranks.
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
They dont want bad name to the business. :).....
Ahh... the business of bombing schools?
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
Ahh... the business of bombing schools?
How many schools were bombed by taliban in afganistan.
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
How many schools were bombed by taliban in afganistan.
You tell me. You seem to be following them closely :)
The mere fact that Afghan government struck a deal with taliban under which they would not target schools where their approved curriculum is taught is enough evidence that they did like to bomb schools, in addition to other things.
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
You tell me. You seem to be following them closely :)
The mere fact that Afghan government struck a deal with taliban under which they would not target schools where their approved curriculum is taught is enough evidence that they did like to bomb schools, in addition to other things.
None. If some charsees(thats what afghan army actualy is) were using schools as hideouts then it is some thing different.
i dont think even TTP is destroying schools for the reasons mentioned by all.
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
^ So you think it is justified to blow up a school if you believe Pakistani military personnel are 'hiding' there?
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
^ So you think it is justified to blow up a school if you believe Pakistani military personnel are 'hiding' there?
I am just telling you why both parties are destroying the schools, only becuase their enemy(TTP or Pak army) is using them. What is my opinion on this should be irrelevant here.
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
I am just telling you why both parties are destroying the schools, only becuase their enemy(TTP or Pak army) is using them. What is my opinion on this should be irrelevant here.
By definition of a discussion forum, we all express our opinions here. You said you THINK TTP is destroying schools not because of reasons mentioned by all here. What you THINK is your opinion.
If you like to TELL us something, please back it up with facts not opinions.
Coming to the topic, you also believe that Taliban are fighting without any external help. Not much remains to be discussed then, it seems.
Happy Hallucinating!!!
Re: Reality of American "Success" and "Winning" in Afghanistan
By definition of a discussion forum, we all express our opinions here. You said you THINK TTP is destroying schools not because of reasons mentioned by all here. What you THINK is your opinion.
If you like to TELL us something, please back it up with facts not opinions.
Coming to the topic, you also believe that Taliban are fighting without any external help. Not much remains to be discussed then, it seems.
Happy Hallucinating!!!
Bhai jan my opinion was not related to topic at hand.
khair
We will inshalalh soon see amarat e islamiya in afghanistan again.
ma-salama
Re: Reality of American “Success” and “Winning” in Afghanistan
Only thing Taliban brought was death & destruction. No wonder so many Afghans are trying to flew as the US is about leave the country & many die try to flee to non-Muslim countries in EU and Australia.
Chance of a new life trumps risks for Afghan refugees - DAWN.COM
KABUL: An elderly Afghan man with a bearded, tired face gazes from the television screen and says sadly: “My son wouldn’t listen to me. He borrowed money just to pay for his death.”
The hard-hitting advert is part of a new campaign run by Afghanistan’s refugee ministry to dissuade young men from using people smugglers to flee the war-torn country in search of a better life.
Using real families’ stories, the publicity drive aims to highlight how traffickers and treacherous journeys pose a deadly threat to migrants who often face deportation even if they reach their intended destination.
The television clip shows the father, from the marginalised Hazara ethnic group, sitting in his shoe-repair stall remembering his son who tried to reach Australia.
“I told him repeatedly not to go, not to trust the smugglers,” he says as the camera closes in on his distraught eyes. “But he went and now he is dead, drowned at sea.”
Many Afghans are looking for an escape as more than a decade of international intervention winds down and fears grow that hardline Islamists or violent warlords will return to power.
Ambitious young men are needed to help the country to develop, but the exodus has picked up pace as uncertainty deepens, Nato-led troops pull out in 2014 and aid money dries up.
Afghans made 36,600 asylum claims in industrialised countries last year, according to the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), up from 36,200 in 2011.
Even 12 years after the fall of the Taliban, Afghanistan remains the world’s leading country of origin for refugees.
Afghans often choose to head to Australia, Sweden, Germany or Norway, but they face a tough battle even if they complete epic overland journeys and sea passages in rickety smugglers’ boats.
In Australia, the new government came to power in September vowing to use its navy to tow the boats to back their place of origin – typically Indonesia – and its embassy in Kabul issues dire warning that migrants are not welcome.
Those who do reach Christmas Island, an Australian territory in the Indian Ocean, are now processed and settled in under-developed Papua New Guinea.
“Given the past experience of civil war and the Taliban rule, many Afghans feel pressured to flee the country at any cost,” refugee ministry spokesman Islamudin Jurat told AFP.
“Our campaign is intended at reversing the belief that leaving through illegal channels and putting your fate in the hands of traffickers carries little risk.
“There is a real risk of death, and a little chance of reaching your destination safely and being accepted. We have seen too many Afghan lives lost while trying to reach the shores of Europe and Australia, but traffickers see a golden opportunity to lure stressed Afghans into paying thousands of dollars”‘I am sure I would be happy and prosperous.’"
The six-month campaign, which is backed by the International Organisation for Migration (IOM), is holding meetings in villages as well as airing TV and radio broadcasts, and distributing posters and leaflets.
But it may struggle to convince people like Saber Rezayee, 20, an unemployed man from the northern city of Mazar-i-Sahrif who has already made two failed attempts to reach Europe.
“I prefer to go and die on the way than to stay here and be slaughtered by the Taliban, or blown up by bombs,” he told AFP, recalling how he was deported from both Iran and Turkey as he tried to get to Sweden where he has relatives.
“I am young, but I clearly remember the Taliban killing some relatives when they were in power. Someone I know has opened a shop in Sweden. I am sure I would be happy and prosperous there.”Migrants pay as much as $20,000 to smugglers who run routes out of Afghanistan using road transport or enable people to board flights with illegally obtained visas.
Many heading to Australia fly first to Malaysia, then take one sea trip to Indonesia and another on overcrowded fishing boats to Christmas Island.
The Australian government recorded two migrants who went overland to Pakistan, and then flew to Indonesia via Thailand, Hong Kong and Singapore, before making the final leg of the journey by boat.
More than 600 people, including refugees from other countries such as Sri Lanka, are thought to have died making the sea journey to Christmas Island since 2006, though exact figures are not available.
“They know the dangers and that they may be deported back but it is a good business,” one smuggler who declined to give his name told AFP during an interview in Kabul. “We simply facilitate their escape. We take them mostly to Turkey, where some others will then take them to Europe and Australia.”
The IOM says many Afghan migrants have little idea of what they face when they pay smugglers and set off into the unknown.
“Nobody can stop people wanting to move, but we want them to make a decision based on well-informed knowledge and correct information,” Sato Mio, liason officer for the IOM, said.