What was the issue they had with khula?
they were shocked as they never had given a right for khula in their family earlier.
Re: Reading Your Nikkah Nama
It's not a right to "give" though. It kinda comes with the package when you recite your first kalimah and your parents distribute gulab jamuns when you're born.
Did this take place in a Western, developed country? I only ask because I wonder which legal systems in which countries consider a "nikah nama" a legally binding contract. Instead of getting a couple of mullahs and a calligrapher, why not just hire a couple of lawyers and suss out a formal prenuptial agreement that doesn't conflict with your state's divorce laws?
It happened in the US of A. Twice that I know of...Im sure many more cases exist. As long as the good or service provided is legal, any oral or written agreement between two parties can constitute a binding legal contract. In both cases, the nikah namah was read by family, mehr was agreed upon from before and made part of the contract. During the divorce, the guys tried to get out of it by refusing to pay and she hired a lawyer.
Your nikah namah is signed by both you and your husband, in the presence of witnesses. It is a contract. Of course, both marriages were registered in the US also.
this is crucial for sure, the nikah nama needs to be discussed in detail by the couple prior to the day, just like other issues like wedding venues, dates, clothes, jewellery etc etc are discussed in detail. somehow this takes a backseat to the other more seemingly 'important' stuff, only ourselves to blame.
Even if it is discussed by the couple prior to the nikkah, the reality is that the girl is not sitting with the guy during the nikkah itself. She's usually off in another room. So when the nikkah papers come to her, she just signs away. Yeah, it's her fault for not reading it and checking to see if the guy followed through on what was agreed upon before hand ... cause it has happened where the guy has decided to change his mind at the last minute and give no mehr rather than what was discussed and agreed upon beforehand, then her father gets the blame for not speaking up. The initial agreement and the husbands "word" means nothing and the father becomes the scapegoat. It has happened before.
The hustle and bustle (translation - rush rush rush) of the nikkah process ... (pressure from the larkay walay, the guests are leaving, hurry up and serve food, etc., get the nikkah over and done with) ... these things do happen. Then there are cases of overall family pressure (in arranged marriages) where the girl essentially has no say or right to ask to read the nikkah papers.
Culturally, it is wrong for a girl to ask to read what the heck she is signing. There is a big HAWWWWWWWWWW from the guy's side.
There are so many things that are culturally acceptable but Islamically wrong that we (the people) go along with just to make everybody else happy.
Like I said before, only a low life would take away his wife's rights ... but it's null and void anyway cause it doesn't hold up if you speak to any Alim about your rights. But culturally, yeah ... it holds up.
Does Jehaz make sense to you? Besides, Haq mehr stems from Islamic traditions. You think securing mehr is unfair to men, read up on rights of women in Islam and you will see how much a woman gives up for that little amount.
come on ! y always u talk about the rights of women and sacrifies made by the women. what about the man who earns livelihood for their family and protect the honour of their family.
so be positive ............ so dont see only mehr. man earns for his family and after all it is the women who does most of khurcha .......... busy is shopping all the time ........... lols
Jahez = dowry. Which was discouraged entirely by the Prophet. At least that's what I thought.
what made u think so . do u have ne support from hadith. plz share
i havent read nething where Dowry has been discouraged. it is a gift from parents to their daughters ........... y to discourage it.
Re: Reading Your Nikkah Nama
Its better to decide all that stuff wayyyyyyyyy before Baraat . For my sister and brother I remember I filled out both the forms (I have good handwriting 
) and I sent copies to each party . They read it , called each other and told that they are fine with it . So the whole nikkah thing was done a week prior to actual barat in the presence of both families.
I think it gives ample time to both the parties to read it , make modifications , and agree upon.
This is on my "shaadi prep list" ...... along with picking out my wedding dress and finding a caterer... I also have noted that this is something that has to be done no matter what. And that well before Nikkah actually happens, my parents need to discuss the contents of my Nikkah Nama in detail with my inlaws.
I have heard too many stories about exactly what you have written PCG - boys family making amendments to it which forfeights pre-ordained islamic rights ... and girl just signs it without even truly knowing what she is signing (except that it she is now officially married).
Nikkah Nama is a marriage contract..... and just like any other contract in the world..... before one gets into one- it should be discussed and read before signed.
My fiance and I are taking it another step further and also going to have a pre-nup made. A lot of people are prob going to hate on me for this and probably will find this morbid but whatever... I have worked in divorce law for a year...... and have my reasons for getting one made. Although no one thinks about it like this - there is a sense of security in the marriage when you know a document exists out there that will not allow either person in the marriage to screw the other one if god forbid things go wrong. What guy isn't going to appreciate that you are not going to turn out to be some ***** that is going to threaten to take you to the cleaners anytime a rift occurs?? Also vice versa.
This is just me though.
The authentic (read: non-tampered with) nikkah contract works as a pre-nup too. Refer to Islam rulings on divorce- the man has responsibilities for his ex-wife (especially in the case of children) too, ensuring she is provided for. Not that I'm an expert or anything...
Even if it is discussed by the couple prior to the nikkah, the reality is that the girl is not sitting with the guy during the nikkah itself. She's usually off in another room. So when the nikkah papers come to her, she just signs away. Yeah, it's her fault for not reading it and checking to see if the guy followed through on what was agreed upon before hand ... cause it has happened where the guy has decided to change his mind at the last minute and give no mehr rather than what was discussed and agreed upon beforehand, then her father gets the blame for not speaking up. The initial agreement and the husbands "word" means nothing and the father becomes the scapegoat. It has happened before.
The hustle and bustle (translation - rush rush rush) of the nikkah process ... (pressure from the larkay walay, the guests are leaving, hurry up and serve food, etc., get the nikkah over and done with) ... these things do happen. Then there are cases of overall family pressure (in arranged marriages) where the girl essentially has no say or right to ask to read the nikkah papers.
Culturally, it is wrong for a girl to ask to read what the heck she is signing. There is a big HAWWWWWWWWWW from the guy's side.
There are so many things that are culturally acceptable but Islamically wrong that we (the people) go along with just to make everybody else happy.
Like I said before, only a low life would take away his wife's rights ... but it's null and void anyway cause it doesn't hold up if you speak to any Alim about your rights. But culturally, yeah ... it holds up.
You are SO right about the nikkah being rushed- it's all about feeding the heards (of people- like they've never eaten before) and pleasing the in-laws- I HATE IT. I swear, I'm going to have a small wedding (WHERE IIIIIIIII MAKE THE RULES), just to escape from the circus mentality that operates at our Pakistani (the ones I've been too anway) weddings.
Re: Reading Your Nikkah Nama
Yeah good luck. When you sit down to make the wedding list, your parents will jump in to include all their rishidaar and every social contact of theirs since the age of 6.
The authentic (read: non-tampered with) nikkah contract works as a pre-nup too. Refer to Islam rulings on divorce- the man has responsibilities for his ex-wife (especially in the case of children) too, ensuring she is provided for. Not that I'm an expert or anything...
I'm kinda curious about the treatment of the nikkah nama in a divorce situation in the west. If the courts consider it to be like a prenuptial agreement and if the wife (soon to-be-ex) was seeking her rights under the nikah nama, I would think that she could not then petition the court for alimony. In other words, either the nikah nama sets out the terms for the divorce or the courts would, but not both. And if it was the nikah nama, then the sum total of her entitlement would be her maq mehr.
That begs the question - does modern society require re-thinking of how to calculate mehr given that most families have a pretty modest amount written in?
Re: Reading Your Nikkah Nama
^ I know people whose mehr was set a 1 Million.
what made u think so . do u have ne support from hadith. plz share
i havent read nething where Dowry has been discouraged. it is a gift from parents to their daughters ........... y to discourage it.
Jahez is a lanat.
Mein nahin kehti...buzurgon ne kaha hai. :)
It is amazing how many stories you will hear about the guy (or most often the case → His family) set the haq maher to an extremely low amount… this amount is not going to be anywhere CLOSE support you upon a divorce (please refer to this thread: http://www.paklinks.com/gs/wedding/396438-haq-meher.html) … I guess in situations like this, it would be wise to petition the western court for alimony and child support.
I worked in divorce law for a year and there are plenty of muslims coming in and taking advantage of the system in place even though they have Nikka Nama… for this reason people also get pre-nups along with Nikka Nama … its just way more detailed. Plus its only valid if the girl has her own lawyer and the guy has his own lawyer in making it up. Its a lot more “fair” and considerate. Because it is the lawyers looking out for their clients … and not parents who may have ulterior motives or young couples who are in luv and may not be thinking clearly about these sort of issues.
Reha - wow at u knowing people that set it at a million dollars! Now THAT girl will never have a need to go to court… god forbid if anything happens.
Jahez is a lanat.
Mein nahin kehti...buzurgon ne kaha hai. :)
giving gift to ur daughter (Jahez) provided it is also a sunnat ( as prophet himself gave jahez to hazrat fatima widely reported in the books of history and hadiths) is a lanat as per the buzurg.
what kind of buzurg they are .......... after PCG statement this is also an interesting one.
Jahez is a lanat.
Mein nahin kehti...buzurgon ne kaha hai. :)
Rasool Allah SWT has given small jahez to her beloved daughter Fatima, so it is a sunnat to give Jahez to the daughters.
But today people expecting too much excessive Jahez it really a Lanat, they are hypocrate as when come to Mehar they want to have minimum quoting Rasool Allah SWT, but when talk about Jahez they do not follow Rasool Allah's sunnah.
Re: Reading Your Nikkah Nama
^ but what I have heard is that the jahez that our beloved Prophet (PBUH) gave was bought from his SIL's money. Some war item belonging to his SIL was sold off and jahez was bought from the money received by selling that war item.
If i am wrong please correct me ?
giving gift to ur daughter (Jahez) provided it is also a sunnat ( as prophet himself gave jahez to hazrat fatima widely reported in the books of history and hadiths) is a lanat as per the buzurg.
what kind of buzurg they are .......... after PCG statement this is also an interesting one.
I believe there is a clear difference between parents willingly and happily giving some presents to their daughter, and the cultural and social obligation to drain every last drop of blood out of your body and present it to the maharaaj who is blessing the family with his willingness to marry their daughter.
There are certain bollocks ideas we have adopted from the mixed culture of the subcontinent. The modern concept of jahez comes under the same league. Bride's parents are expected, and in often cases demanded to give certain 'presents' to their daughter. There should be no such implied obligations associated with marriage. And when people pull out their beards and turbans to justify these sick practices in the light of islam, it is disgusting. If the maharaj doesn't afford a fridge, tv, bed, furniture and paanday, the butthead should reconsider the idea of getting married.
I dont think mehr is meant to be seen as JUST a preventative measure for divorce. Its a gift given from the man to his wife, and there are two types, muwajjal and muajjal, one which is given at the time of and the other is delayed (i cant remember which is which)
The people who set it to lower amounts also give it right away...its the girls like the one Reha knows, who have mehrs of a million dollars, who never see a cent of it and usually mehr is seen as a bragging point then. "My mehr was a million dollars!" Yun to mei apna mehr 100 million rakh loon, whats the difference if you're never going to get it?
Also, in this day and age, people get married islamically and divorced secularly. Women nowadays would rather go through the Western system and take him for all he's worth rather than hope the sleazeball who divorced you would do the right thing and pay your 1 lakh rupee mehr, which is probably not going to do much to support you and in a society like Pakistan's, let's get real....she will be seen as 'spoiled goods' and getting your mehr isnt going to make you feel better about the divorce.
i sometimes think some womens' concept of shaadi is so unfair to the guy....we expect high mehrs, want the blinged out diamond engagement rings and bands, the lavish honeymoons (all paid for by the guys) even equate cultural traditions like moon dikhai as being absolutely necessary, expect the in laws to get your shaadi AND valima dress plus bari because "its tradition" (and we all know the guys outfits are way cheaper than ours) but then protest against why our parents have to give jehez or gifts to relatives of the groom. We should try to even things out....
Very interesting clippings on Nikkah Nama and rules for second maariage.watch and give opinion!