Reaction I Submit Islam to Jewish Prophets

Society Religion & Philosophy
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There is no God other than Allah. Is not Allah a common word for God in Arabic.

There is no messenger other than Mohammad. Is Mohammad better than Abraham and Moses.

Why should Mohammad or his followers say do not differentiate among prophets and treat them all same EXCEPT MOHAMMAD.

If you love Allah treat all prophets equally including Mohammad. Mohammad’s words or no better than Moses or Joshua.

If you want to respect Allah and His prophets words THEN SUBMIT TO JEWS AND THEIR PHILOSOPHY.

Islam means submission. Submitting to Jewish prophets’ words is only the pleasure to God.

If you want to contradict, then remember there are several Hindus for centuries who have also worshipped their own God.

The correct way is shown. Dont be like a mule that cannot be controlled without a robe on its nose.

STOP ALL YOUR JIHADS so that world would prosper.

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Re: Reaction I Submit Islam to Jewish Prophets

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by jab: *
**There is no messenger other than Mohammad. Is Mohammad better than Abraham and Moses.

...] If you love Allah treat all prophets equally including Mohammad. Mohammad's words or no better than Moses or Joshua.

If you want to respect Allah and His prophets words THEN SUBMIT TO JEWS AND THEIR PHILOSOPHY.

...] Dont be like a mule that cannot be controlled without a robe on its nose.

STOP ALL YOUR JIHADS so that world would prosper.
[/QUOTE]
**

Sorry, i am not certain what you are trying to state. Regarding your first sentence, where did you get the statement, "There is no messenger other than Mohammad"? That is not an Islamic principle. There is no messenger after Muhammad - is that what you originally meant? Yes that is a fundamental tenet within Islam. What did you mean by your first statement though - sorry, i am a bit confused.

According to Islam, ALL Prophets (peace be upon each and every one of them) - Jesus, Moses, Noah, Muhammad, Abraham - are respected. Period. Prophet Muhammad (may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) occupies an extremely unique position because he is the last Prophet. As such, the respect towards him is greater. That does not negate the unique positions of Prophet Jesus or any other prophet. Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was the last who perfected my faith - that automatically entails i will have more respect for him.

Secondly, what do you mean - precisely - by "Stop all your jihads"? Who is this addressed to? All Muslim Guppies? If so, when did you enter my life and analyze every minute of my life? How do you know that all of us commit "jihads"? And what is the meaning of jihad in Islam, according to yourself?

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REMEBER We ( my friends here with me, I dont know much however to say about the members of this discussion group ) are a very good group who discuss openly and in a healthy manner on diverse matters.

(1) No prophets gains importance because he happened to be the last prophet, rather because how and in what all way God has interacted to them. If Moses or Jesus foretold that messenger Mohammad would be sent, then the First Condidion is

Moses and Jesus, who believed by you to have foretold, the arrival of messenger, MUST BE THE REAL AND TRUSTED GOD'S SERVANTS. Even in this respect Quran shows its jealousy to these prophets of Jews.

If Moses' inspiration is questioned by Quran, then Quran should totally dissociate from Torah. Leave Jews alone with the greatest treasure, which you believe, is a BLUNDER, to themselves. Dont feel jeasous of the blunder of Jews. Guide yourself without the Blunder Jews. So in this respect also Quran needs to clear itself away from all references to Jewish heritage. THAT IS THEIR HERITAGE. DONT TRY TO STEAL FROM THEIR HERITAGE.

(2) Moses was so pleased to God, that God offered to take away all the inheritance that your Ibrahim was promised to. If Moses did that then the sons of Hagar will not claim falsely on the inheritance of Isacc and Jacob. But Moses was selfless, truthful and accurate that he conveyed whatever was inspired or shown to him by God himself. He did not need any angel to serve between him and Moses.

Also being a Good Steward and was also jealous for God's promises Ibrahim, Moses refused to receive the inheritance from God. But Prophet Mohammad, if at all he is, DID THAT. Because of this Mohammad is selfish.

Muslims also should stop worshipping God as Jehovah or Yeweh. The name was revealed by God himself to Moses for the first time. God was not known to Abraham as Jehovah. Moses openly says so.

Torah ( in restricted sense to include 4 books of moses ) was written by Moses. The God ( Not God only the arch angel Gabriel ) whom you believe took Mohammad to Heaven to reveal something, appeared in the most possible form Mankind can see the all powerful God.

Prophet Mohammad showed greatest disrepect to all prophets especially
Jesus, who is the son of God, by questioning Jesus. Instead he must respect and submit to the words of Jesus 100 %. Some believe Jesus prophesised about the coming of Mohammad. If Jesus made a greatest blunder by falsely calling himself "Son of God", then God was never with Jesus and therefore messenger Mohammad's coming was not foretold by Jesus.

In all ways Mohammad is far far inferior to Moses and Jesus, that he DESERVES NO SPECIAL TREATMENT to followers of God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. You can add followers ofr Hagar - God never spoke to Ishmail, He only spoke to Hagar during the period Hagar was considered to be within the control of Sarah, but was cast away by Sarah because of wrong doings.

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there is no such thing as "after" . what if all humans are gone and to reappear you need to go through the same relgious development or humans are just accidental creation and dispppear and exticnt
like other pre-historic creatures.

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Sir

As was stated this calls for Jihad either way for Islam.

"No after" this was your reaction sir. Only one party can emerge successful - Jews that includes Christ vs Muhammad

1) Since story of Ibrahim is written several years after the incidence it is not true. Hagar never gave birth to Ibrahim's son Ishmail.

Therefore Torahs written by Moses cannot be accepted by Quran. So all references and prophesys Quran believes is false.

Here the survival of Quran is threatened fully.

Jihad on Quran to remove references.

2) All the books of Bible, in its standard version was complete before 100 After Jesus Christ's birth.

Muhammad was born after all prophets. He read/heard all books. He married a rich widow so that he get settled in life so that he would make some research on Torah and Bible.

He became a warrior with political intentions. He gained the political advantage by falsely claiming is concepts as that given by God.

This has 100% probability.

Again calls for Jihad in that the other party will claim that QURAN IS A BLUNDER.

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:flower1: … With all due respect to yourself, sir, something besides cut-n-pastes would be helpful - sil vous plait.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by jab: *
...
1) Since story of Ibrahim is written several years after the incidence it is not true. Hagar never gave birth to Ibrahim's son Ishmail.

Therefore Torahs written by Moses cannot be accepted by Quran. So all references and prophesys Quran believes is false.
[/quote]

Who WROTE Torah? Do we still have "original" Torah as revealed to Moses?

[quote]
Here the survival of Quran is threatened fully.
[/quote]

Its your opinion, Quran has survived 1400+ years without any modifications.

[quote]
2) All the books of Bible, in its standard version was complete before 100 After Jesus Christ's birth.
[/quote]

Which version would that be?

[quote]
Muhammad was born after all prophets. He read/heard all books.
[/quote]

Mohammed PBUH was born illiterate, didn't receive any education, it is a proven fact (not that can be PROVED now) and most of the people around him were idolators/pagans.

[quote]
He married a rich widow so that he get settled in life so that he would make some research on Torah and Bible.
[/quote]

To your disappointment I'll mention it again that he was illiterate.

....
[quote]
Again calls for Jihad in that the other party will claim that QURAN IS A BLUNDER.
[/QUOTE]

Text in Quran has been proved to be a non-Human work, it was tested by the then scholars, scholars after his departure and on and on. So, no, its not a blunder, but in fact a BLESSING. It may categorize you or anyone as "non-believer", if you don't believe in Quran then you just ignore it.

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1) Who WROTE Torah? Do we still have "original" Torah as revealed to Moses?

Which Torah are you taking about? Only the books written by Moses or , for sdimplicity sake, all the books that christians consider Old Testament?

Just the 4 books - Do you believe, Moses wrote Torah. How do you know Moses wrote Torah. Why should Muslims bother for Torah written by Moses.

If you say the version of Quran available is the new one as Muhammad did, then the same is true for Torah. How do you know it was not.

Other than Muhammad, do you have anyother evidence to prove that Torah was manipulated.

Other than Muhammad, do you have anyother evidence to prove that Quran was not manipulated.

Is there similarity between the Old Testament and Torah in the expanded sense. If true, then Torah as it remains is the original.

What are the points on which Quran does not accept Torah? Quran is not strong enough to contend against the verses of Torah, not given to one prophet for 30 years, but to several prophets for several years.

If one prophet lacks respect for prophets of his forefathers, then he obhects to God's words. He is disobedient to God's words.

2) Quran survived with references to Bible ( collective ) . If references of Bible is taken away, Quran will die.

3) Was Muhammad a traveller? Some Muslim writers we have discussed about, believe, that Muhammad was a literate and used to travel with his uncle, was impressed with Torah and Bible, was disturbed by the worshipers of idol and pagans and felt helpless that he was not able to bring them out and finally settled with the widower etc. These writers if you believe are not true Muslims - it between the disbeliever and you - and the ever winning Allah - Jehovah I would prefer to call - by which name - Allah is not known to Ibrahim and therefore not to Muslims.

4) A true story

There were twin brothers. One brother studies well. Another brother does not study. When exam came, the other asked the learned brother to copy. When the results were published

the learned brother got less marks. The brother who cheated got more marks because he answered one or two questions his learned brother did not find time to learn.

Jews are original Islam is duplicate

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The Torah nullified Zuboor, the Bible nullified Torah and the Quran nullified the Bible…Those are old books…Who cares if they are pure or tampered with. We follow what the last message was and that is the Quran.

As for following the Prophets (MPBUT) we follow the Sunnah of Hazrat Ibrahim :as: when we slaughter an animal every year…We follow the sabbaths as prescribed by Prophets before, we fast like the people before us were taught…You have the wrong impression that Islam and the previous Messengers’ teachings go separate ways. Wrong. Islam is just a continuation and the last of the same Abrahamic faiths.

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So the quran hasn't been modified in the last 1400 years. The theory of earth's flatness or geocentricism wasn't modified for tousands of years as well. Doesn't mean they are true!!!

It is upto the believer. It is not a universal truth, it is simply faith of some people. Could be wrong..could be right.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
So the quran hasn't been modified in the last 1400 years. The theory of earth's flatness or geocentricism wasn't modified for tousands of years as well. Doesn't mean they are true!!!

It is upto the believer. It is not a universal truth, it is simply faith of some people. Could be wrong..could be right.
[/QUOTE]

Therefore, you only discard what is proved wrong. Quran has not been proved wrong :p

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by jab: *
....
If you say the version of Quran available is the new one as Muhammad did, then the same is true for Torah. How do you know it was not.
[/quote]

We have Quran which tells us that Jews/Christians manipulated/modified their beliefs, since we believe Quran as word of GOD we take that as ultimate truth.

[quote]
Other than Muhammad, do you have anyother evidence to prove that Torah was manipulated.
[/quote]

You will not find any other "version", "modification" to Quran. Bible has many.

[quote]
...Is there similarity between the Old Testament and Torah in the expanded sense. If true, then Torah as it remains is the original.

What are the points on which Quran does not accept Torah? Quran is not strong enough to contend against the verses of Torah, not given to one prophet for 30 years, but to several prophets for several years.
[/quote]

Uzair, Isa (Jesus) were not God's "son". God says that He does not have "any" partner. many other points as well.

How many prophets were given "Torah"? and can you tell us which part was given to which prophet?

[quote]
If one prophet lacks respect for prophets of his forefathers, then he obhects to God's words. He is disobedient to God's words.
[/quote]

I don't think there was any prophet who lacked respect for earlier prophets. Point some please!?

[quote]
2) Quran survived with references to Bible ( collective ) . If references of Bible is taken away, Quran will die.
[/quote]

Quran made reference to "Bible" not for survival! It made references to Bible and other books, to address all audiences, no restricted to "non-Bible" people.

[quote]
3) Was Muhammad a traveller? Some Muslim writers we have discussed about, believe, that Muhammad was a literate and used to travel with his uncle, was impressed with Torah and Bible, was disturbed by the worshipers of idol and pagans and felt helpless that he was not able to bring them out and finally settled with the widower etc. These writers if you believe are not true Muslims - it between the disbeliever and you - and the ever winning Allah - Jehovah I would prefer to call - by which name - Allah is not known to Ibrahim and therefore not to Muslims.
[/quote]

Its time that you start making references to proper names, books instead of "some" and "some". Mohammed was unable to read any book/literature, write book/article/etc, he didn't receive any education like we do.

Jews are not original as well, they are continuity of Abraham's religion.

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islam is last major religen and it heavily borrwed from other religens
and modified to arabic condtions . only difference it micromanages
everything you do from morining until you go to bed.

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In Reply to Lajawab regarding sacrifice and sabbath

Your point of Sacrifice and Sabbath necessitates Islam to submit to Jewish prophets all the more, 

      because Abraham used to sacrifice and some muslims claim that 
      Ibrahim actually tried to sacrifice Hagar's son Ishmail.

If Muslims refuse to accept Jesus and other jewish prophets, they should be spending time only with Ibrahim sacrificing beasts.

Christians saw to it, in all respects, that even if great, great, great grandfather of you prophet Muhammad decides to copy from Quran or Torah, the great..grandfather would get good version to copy from.

If you are more interested in knowing about sacrifices, then you should read the three GOSPELS which could explain about the situation, YOU POINT OUT, in several places. You can also refer to prophets of Torah who say God is not interested in the blood of animals. Why then the sacrifices read the socalled GOSPELS.

The two other posts also have some information posted yesterday that mentions about the jealousy of prophet Mohammad

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In reply to Changez_like

Quran is what Muhammad wrote or someone took notes and later wrote because you, Sir, are the person, who have told that Muhammad was an illiterate and therefore being an illeterate he depended on someone, which someone God don't bother for, should have sought someone's help to write Quran.

Quran is saying rayeena and unzurna We Hear and disobey vs We hear and obey and SWIRLING of tongue. God is not writing for pronounciation class

So Quran is Muhammad and Muhammad is Quran. You need someother proof

Prophet Mohammad will say to God when God asks

Did you say to people that

"I God asked Jesus as to whether Jesus asked his followers to worship Jesus and Mary. and Jesus replied no I dont"

Would God the all knowing ask Jesus whether Jesus asked Mary to be worshipped.

That itself shows that part of Quran is not God's words. Quran is manipulated. Even Muhammad did not know Quran was manipulated if he was an illiterate.

2) Regarding God having consort, again it shows clearly Quran is not God's words.

Either Muhammad or one of the writer of Quran has added it. Jesus says whether there could be marriage in Heaven.

Dont Muslims say Insha Allah. If God pleasing everything will happen.

God said "Be" with the intention to have a son. And Jesus came to be the Son of God.

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Neither has the bible, the upanishads, the shlokas, the torah, etc...none of them have been proven wrong either.

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I don’t get your meaning behind ‘submit’. What do you mean by it? And you need to learn a little background, my friend before you ask questions. You claim that our Holy Prophet :saw: married Khatija :ra: so that he could study Torah and the Bible? How could he? He was unlettered. He could neither read nor write. Then you claim he was a warrior. Wrong again…He was a shephered.

Ask the basic questions first…Right now you are like diving off a cliff to catch a wave… First learn how to swim…

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For not knowing how to obey to her mistress and

God's words Hagar was cast away.

Islam is Submission. Obey means Unzurna as also mentioned in Quran.

So Hear the prophets words, accept them as God's words and obey

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by jab: *
Quran is what Muhammad wrote or someone took notes and later wrote because you, Sir, are the person, who have told that Muhammad was an illiterate and therefore being an illeterate he depended on someone, which someone God don't bother for, should have sought someone's help to write Quran.
[/quote]

Quran was written down on every down in different parts in life of Prophet Mohammed and memorized verse by verse by many (if not most) of his companions. After his departure, one of the caliphs took the task and as team worked/compiled all the chapters together. It was made sure that no information is missing, all efforts were made to make sure that everything which was supposed to be there is there.

Anyway, his companions did cooperate with him. Present day copy is not an effort of one person, but most of the companions. One can forget, two can, not all of them. Also there is a promise made by God in Quran that He will keep it safe, its upto "believer" to believe in it.

[quote]
Quran is saying rayeena and unzurna We Hear and disobey vs We hear and obey and SWIRLING of tongue. God is not writing for pronounciation class
[/quote]

what makes you say that?

[quote]
So Quran is Muhammad and Muhammad is Quran. You need someother proof
[/quote]

No, they are two separate entities. His words are recorded as "ahadith".

[quote]
Prophet Mohammad will say to God when God asks

Did you say to people that

"I God asked Jesus as to whether Jesus asked his followers to worship Jesus and Mary. and Jesus replied no I dont"

Would God the all knowing ask Jesus whether Jesus asked Mary to be worshipped.

That itself shows that part of Quran is not God's words. Quran is manipulated. Even Muhammad did not know Quran was manipulated if he was an illiterate.
[/quote]

Please write again, but you may want to rethink first as to what you want to say, your words are not clear.

[quote]
2) Regarding God having consort, again it shows clearly Quran is not God's words.

Either Muhammad or one of the writer of Quran has added it. Jesus says whether there could be marriage in Heaven.

Dont Muslims say Insha Allah. If God pleasing everything will happen.

God said "Be" with the intention to have a son. And Jesus came to be the Son of God.
[/QUOTE]

No, thats what God explains in Quran that Jesus is not His son, this is something invented in Bible (one of the big reasons Muslims shouldn't follow Bible).

Abraham preached monotheism, so did Moses and Jesus. But followers of Moses and Jesus invented concepts in their faith, hence Muslims shouldn't follow their books.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *

Quran was written down on every down in different parts in life of Prophet Mohammed and memorized verse by verse by many (if not most) of his companions. After his departure, one of the caliphs took the task and as team worked/compiled all the chapters together. It was made sure that no information is missing, all efforts were made to make sure that everything which was supposed to be there is there.

Anyway, his companions did cooperate with him. Present day copy is not an effort of one person, but most of the companions. One can forget, two can, not all of them. Also there is a promise made by God in Quran that He will keep it safe, its upto "believer" to believe in it.

[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but that explanation falls short as incontrovertible evidence to the "completeness, accuracy and infallibility" of the Quran. Were this caliph and his "team" inerrable, omniscient, perfect, positive, reliable, sure, true, trustworthy, unbeatable, undeceivable, unerring, unfailing, unimpeachable and unquestionable in their transcription? Impossible. Have you ever played the telephone game? If man is responsible for relaying by memory, anything more than a few words in succession, it is going to be different than the original text. Primary source and secondary source are not the same.