Such questions have already been answered in this forum again and again, I don’t know why you keep on asking the same question??
Here’s the answer from brother psyah:
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/6037237-post189.html
and please read this thead if you didn’t: http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/295753-ahmadi-thread.html
Since you said HE(AS) is a nabi of Allah, I m not interested in dajjals or liars or whoever you're referring to. My question is solely to have an idea of how much do you know about khatm e nabuwat.
Im NOT concerned with how long he will rule, what His mission will be, when He AS will come etc. Im just asking , since you said he'll be a prophet, what will happen to the finality of prophethood?
Please have a healthy discussion as i really would like to learn something that make sense to me. I am not interested in copy/pasting stuff from the internet as i can do that myself as well.
Thanks, and hope my question is clear enough now.
If you bother to read; i have clearly given the answer before.
**Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) will not come into the world at that time designated as Prophet, but he would come to lead the Muslim community as the Khalifa of the Holy Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam), but the personal station of prophethood that he has will not be taken from him
**Hadeeth narrated by Al-Bazzaar on the authority of Jaabir . He said, “‘Umar copied part of the Torah in Arabic, brought it to the Prophet , and began to read it to him. As he read, the Prophet’s face changed color. One of the men of the Ansaar said, "Woe to you Ibn Al-Khattaab! Can you not see the face of the Messenger of Allaah?’ Thereupon, the Prophet , said, ‘Do not ask the People of the Book about anything for they will not guide you when they have gone astray. (If you listen to them) You will either disbelieve in what is right or believe in what is false. By Allaah, if Moses had been alive today, he would have been obliged to follow me.’”
Same applies to Hazrat Isa (as)
At this point, there is an important issue we must stop and consider. In the Qur’an and in the hadiths, there is no doubt that ‘Isa (as) will return to earth during the End Times. Today, on the other hand, some people disregard the evident proofs regarding this return, and suggest that it is possible that ‘Isa (as) will return after the Prophet Muhammad (saww) comes, secondly, there is no contradiction between the fact that Muhammad (saas) is the last Prophet and that ‘Isa (as) will return to earth. When ‘Isa (as) comes for the second time, he will not bring a new religion but will be subject to the true religion communicated by the Qur’an and the Prophet Muhammad (saas).
Prophets used to administer among the Israelites. When a prophet died another prophet became his successor. But there will be no prophet after me. Soon there will be *khalifahs *and they will be many." (Sahih of al-Bukhari and Muslim; Musnad of Imam Ahmad; Ibn Majah.
"Had there been a prophet after me it would have been Umar
There is nothing left of prophethood except mubashshirat (good news)." (Unanimously accepted
end of discussion
/\ no.. sorry (do you mean dajjal) lol...
What are you talking about? are you laughing because you didn't understand what I was saying.
I think you either didn't bother to read what I said or it didn't sink in.
I was trying to show you that muslims have committed the same mistake what Jews did regarding Jesus(as). Let me give you a recap:
1) They (Jewish people) are also waiting for a Prophet Elijah (as) to descend from heavens who will tell them about Messiah
[QUOTE]
quote from wikipedia.....
According to the Books of Kings, Elijah raised the dead, brought fire down from the sky, and ascended into heaven in a whirlwind **(either accompanied by a chariot and horses of flame or riding in it).[3] **In the Book of Malachi, Elijah's return is prophesied "before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord,"[4] making him a harbinger of the Messiah and the eschaton in various faiths that revere the Hebrew Bible.
[/QUOTE]
I can provide you quote from the old testament regarding the coming of Elijah(as)
So Muslims and Jews both have been waiting for a prophet to descend from heavens.
In case of Isa(as)[No doubt him being the messiah for jewish people and a true prophet] but still Elijah didn't descend from heavens. instead Yahya (as)[who was born like a normal human being] was presented as the promised Elijah.
So we have strong precedent of someone considered raised to heavens and was supposed to return from heavens to harbinger the coming of Messiah but the prophecy didn't materialize literally as is. prophet yahya (as) was sent in the name of the promised Elijah and the Jews failed to understand the message hidden in the prophecy.
This point was a strong argument by the jews who rejected Jesus.
Can you provide any precedent of someone taking up alive to heavens and returning bodily from the history of prophets?
2) Muslims and Jews are of the view that the messiah will bring peace to the world and both reject the respective messiahs saying there is no peace yet.
3) Both Muslims and Jews think that they are already on the right path and need no one to guide them and mission of the messiah will be political and military oriented.
Complete hadith regarging Hazrat Isa (as) arrival
An-Nawwas b. Sam'an reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) made a mention of the Dajjal one day in the morning. He sometimes described him to be insignificant and sometimes described (his turmoil) as very significant and we felt as if he were in the cluster of the date-palm trees. When we went to him (to the Holy Prophet) in the evening and he read (the signs of fear) in our faces, he said: What is the matter with you? We said: Allah's Messenger, you made a mention of the Dajjal in the morning (sometimes describing him) to be insignificant and sometimes very important, until we began to think as if he were present in some (near) part of the cluster of the date-palm trees. Thereupon he said: I harbour fear in regard to you in so many other things besides the Dajjal. If he comes forth while I am among on, I shall contend with him on your behalf, but if he comes forth while I am not amongst you, a man must contend on his own behalf and Allah would take care of every Muslim on my behalf (and safeguard him against his evil). He (Dajjal) would be a young man with twisted, contracted hair, and a blind eye. I compare him to 'Abd-ul-'Uzza b. Qatan. He who amongst you would survive to see him should recite over him the opening verses of Sura Kahf (xviii.). He would appear on the way between Syria and Iraq and would spread mischief right and left. O servant of Allah! adhere (to the path of Truth). We said: Allah's Messenger, how long would he stay on the earth? He said: For forty days, one day like a year and one day like a month and one day like a week and the rest of the days would be like your days. We said: Allah's Messenger, would one day's prayer suffice for the prayers of day equal to one year? Thereupon he said: No, but you must make an estimate of time (and then observe prayer). We said: Allah's Messenger, how quickly would he walk upon the earth? Thereupon he said: Like cloud driven by the wind. He would come to the people and invite them (to a wrong religion) and they would affirm their faith in him and respond to him. He would then give command to the sky and there would be rainfall upon the earth and it would grow crops. Then in the evening, their posturing animals would come to them with their humps very high and their udders full of milk and their flanks stretched. He would then come to another people and invite them. But they would reject him and he would go away from them and there would be drought for them and nothing would be left with them in the form of wealth. He would then walk through the waste, land and say to it: Bring forth your treasures, and the treasures would come out and collect (themselves) before him like the swarm of bees. He would then call a person brimming with youth and strike him with the sword and cut him into two pieces and (make these pieces lie at a distance which is generally) between the archer and his target. He would then call (that young man) and he will come forward laughing with his face gleaming (with happiness) and it would at this very time that Allah would send Christ, son of Mary, and he will descend at the white minaret in the eastern side of Damascus wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and placing his hands on the wings of two Angels. When he would lower his head, there would fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he would raise it up, beads like pearls would scatter from it. Every non-believer who would smell the odour of his self would die and his breath would reach as far as he would be able to see. He would then search for him (Dajjal) until he would catch hold of him at the gate of Ludd and would kill him. Then a people whom Allah had protected would come to Jesus, son of Mary, and he would wipe their faces and would inform them of their ranks in Paradise and it would be under such conditions that Allah would reveal to Jesus these words: I have brought forth from amongst My servants such people against whom none would be able to fight; you take these people safely to Tur, and then Allah would send Gog and Magog and they would swarm down from every slope. The first of them would pass the lake of Tibering and drink out of it. And when the last of them would pass, he would say: There was once water there. Jesus and his companions would then be besieged here (at Tur, and they would be so much hard pressed) that the head of the ox would be dearer to them than one hundred dinirs and Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would supplicate Allah, Who would send to them insects (which would attack their necks) and in the morning they would perish like one single person. Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then come down to the earth and they would not find in the earth as much space as a single span which is not filled with their putrefaction and stench. Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then again beseech Allah, Who would send birds whose necks would be like those of camels and they would carry them and throw them where God would will. Then Allah would send rain which no house of clay or (the tent of) camels' hairs would keep out and it would wash away the earth until it could appear to be a mirror. Then the earth would be told to bring forth its fruit and restore its blessing and, as a result thereof, there would grow (such a big) pomegranate that a group of persons would be able to eat that, and seek shelter under its skin and milch cow would give so much milk that a whole party would be able to drink it. And the milch camel would give such (a large quantity of) milk that the whole tribe would be able to drink out of that and the milch sheep would give so much milk that the whole family would be able to drink out of that and at that time Allah would send a pleasant wind which would soothe (people) even under their armpits, and would take the life of every Muslim and only the wicked would survive who would commit adultery like asses and the Last Hour would come to them. (Muslim)
would you mind giving us your version of understanding of this hadith?
If you bother to read; i have clearly given the answer before.
**Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) will not come into the world at that time designated as
Prophet, but he would come to lead the Muslim community as the Khalifa of the Holy Prophet
(sallallahu alayhi wasallam), but the personal station of prophethood that he has will not
be taken from him**
hazrat isa(as) will not come as prophet but he(as) will remain a prophet. what is that?
don't you think coming of any sort of prophet(as per your definition) will violate the
principal of khatm-e-nabuwat? He was a prophet to bani-israel who was subjected to Torah and
Gospel(injeel), how will he get express knowledge about Islam(Quran and Sunnah) to be an
ummati of holy prophet (pbuh). Will any earthly scholar teach him? or Allah Himself will
teach him(as). How will He teach him as doors on wahi are closed after prophet muhammad
(pbuh)
[quote]
Hadeeth narrated by Al-Bazzaar
on the authority of Jaabir . He
said, “‘Umar copied part of the Torah in Arabic, brought it to the
Prophet , and began to read it to him. As he read, the Prophet’s face changed color. One of
the men of the Ansaar said, "Woe to you Ibn Al-Khattaab! Can you not see the face of the
Messenger of Allaah?’ Thereupon, the Prophet , said, ‘Do not ask the People of the Book
about anything for they will not guide you when they have gone astray. (If you listen to
them) You will either disbelieve in what is right or believe in what is false.
By Allaah, if Moses had been alive today, he would have been obliged to follow
me.’”
Same applies to Hazrat Isa (as)
[/quote]
ok. fine. BTW, there is a hadith that mentions both Moses(as) and Isa(as) that says that if the above mentioned prophets were alive, they would not have any option other than following prophet muhammad(pbuh). I will try to find the ref.
[quote]
At this point, there is an important issue we must stop and consider. In the Qur’an and in
the hadiths, there is no doubt that ‘Isa (as) will return to earth during the End Times.
[/quote]
Kindly quote the quranic verses that talks about 2nd coming of Isa(as)
[quote]
Today, on the other hand, some people disregard the evident proofs regarding this return,
and suggest that it is possible that ‘Isa (as) will return after the Prophet Muhammad (saww)
comes, secondly, **there is no contradiction between the fact that Muhammad (saas) is the
last Prophet and that ‘Isa (as) will return to earth. When ‘Isa (as) comes for the second
time, he will not bring a new religion but will be subject to the true religion communicated
by the Qur’an and the Prophet Muhammad (saas). **
[/quote]
When we utter the same words, we are thrown out of the pale of Islam.
Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)
kchugtai and other qadianis, your twisting and failure of comprehending simple things is sad to say the least.
How dare you question the power of Allah? You know that’s what the main issue with you Mirzais, you fail to understand the might of Allah. You question everything, you don’t believe in miracles, you take everything as metaphors you even believe the mairaaj to be a metaphor. Give us a break..!
MODS: I didn’t want to post this but above poster made me do this. If you delete this post, please do delete other posts too which are border-lining the censored discussion.
for everyone else, here’s the basics of their beliefs they’re trying impose on here by twisting words and by introducing childish tactics which are common in all cults.
Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)
"In Happy moments, praise God. In Difficult moments, seek God. In Quiet moments, worship God. In Painful moments, trust God. In Every moment, thank God."
**what a lovely saying! what is the source for this?
**I will, for my sake, make one tiny change:
In Happy moments, thank God; In every moment, praise God.
bud, no need to get all sentimental. Sit back,relax and answer the question which are directly related to the khatm e nabuwat.
What kchughtai asked is exactly what i was gona ask as well..
Prophet Isa (AS) wont be a nabi , but his nabuwat wont be taken away from him??
how will he know Islam, if the door of revelation is closed? if he (AS) received anything from Allah, he(AS) will be going against Islam.. no?
Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)
afaik, hazrat Isa (AS) will only stay on the planet for hours, he has a job to do 'to break the cross and to prove himself as the Messiah the jews rejected by killing the false messiah.
post this is the period when islam would reign supreme. it all makes sense because Isa alaihis salam was the messenger who the believers at the time (jews) rejected, and the post Isa (AS) christians looked at him as son of god (naudhubillah)
the return of Isa (AS) is all about the faith of the whole globe
i cant see any room for mirzai point scoring
Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)
oh dear, just realised what probably set ghulam of qadian off on his visions - he debated christians. not the same as becoming ISA alaihis salam, or breaking the cross but must have felt that way to him
bud, no need to get all sentimental. Sit back,relax and answer the question which are directly related to the khatm e nabuwat.
What kchughtai asked is exactly what i was gona ask as well..
Prophet Isa (AS) wont be a nabi , but his nabuwat wont be taken away from him??
how will he know Islam, if the door of revelation is closed? if he (AS) received anything from Allah, he(AS) will be going against Islam.. no?
Peace Mr.Popat
Sayyiduna Isa (AS) is indeed a nabi and will remain nabi. He will not receive wahi in the form of "direct revelation" such as the Qur'an, that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has claimed to have received. A type of wahi will be received but limited to divine inspiration and his mission will be a military one. This military mission will be (physical and literal) not metaphoric in any way. (Note: Previous mention of wahi is meant to emphasise scripture - with law)
Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)
It's got nothing to do with Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS). Sorry to say this psyah, (no offence intended) but you're lying when you say Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) claim to have received something like Qur'an. Please refrain from writing stuff on this thread that has nothing to do with the topic in hand.
Isa(AS) will receive wahi but a limited one? Sir, with all due respect... it's either wahi or not wahi...either Prophet MuhammadPBUH is the last prophet in all its literal sense or He(AS) or his(saw) nabuwat is everlasting , and non-law bearing prophets can come after Him (AS).. i.e: Isa(AS). Make up one mind and stick to it.
Honestly, i feel you're just believing something just for the sake of believing. Because your forefathers have been believing this, therefore, you're obliged to believe ..otherwise i dont think this all makes sense to you at all.
Military mission or not.. fact of the matter is he(AS) will be receiving wahi from Allah.. Same prophet in different time.. same prophethood but different mission? same prophet who said if someone slap you on one cheek, present the other one to slap.. will militarily be killing swines, breaking crosses in its literal meaning and will still be called a prophet ( keep in mind no prophet has ever done such a thing before ....forcefully spreading the word of Allah ), but this time prophet for Muhammadi(SAW)'s ummah? a prophet who was only a prophet for bani israel will be coming back and forcefully be breaking crosses..? How would that be a proof of his truthfulness? He (AS) HAS to be born again ( reincarnation is not acceptable in islam ).. in order to do all that.. but if he(AS) is coming straight from the skies, then who will be teaching Him islam?.. Quran ? keep in mind, if Allah teaches him all that then its wahi.. and u said wahi is now limited.
Muhammad PBUH is the seal of the prophets..I cannot even for a second believe that Islam would need someone from outside the Muhammadi(SAW)'s shariyah for help. Every other prophethood has now come to an end except the prophethood of MuhammadPBUH..its ever lasting..( i will say this a thousands or million times if i have to , because this is the greatest praise of my beloved prophet Muhammad PBUH ) The greatest, the glorious,the most exalted and master of the prophets. Rehmatul lil aalameen.
Mr. CP, you seem to have gone nuts. I DID NOT question powers of Allah. Instead I questioned your perceptions and asked pretty obvious questions. Questioning you and your friends cannot be equated to questioning powers of Allah.
It's got nothing to do with Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS). Sorry to say this psyah, (no offence intended) but you're lying when you say Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS) claim to have received something like Qur'an. Please refrain from writing stuff on this thread that has nothing to do with the topic in hand.
Isa(AS) will receive wahi but a limited one? Sir, with all due respect... it's either wahi or not wahi...either Prophet MuhammadPBUH is the last prophet in all its literal sense or He(AS) or his(saw) nabuwat is everlasting , and non-law bearing prophets can come after Him (AS).. i.e: Isa(AS). Make up one mind and stick to it.
Honestly, i feel you're just believing something just for the sake of believing. Because your forefathers have been believing this, therefore, you're obliged to believe ..otherwise i dont think this all makes sense to you at all.
Military mission or not.. fact of the matter is he(AS) will be receiving wahi from Allah.. Same prophet in different time.. same prophethood but different mission? same prophet who said if someone slap you on one cheek, present the other one to slap.. will militarily be killing swines, breaking crosses in its literal meaning and will still be called a prophet ( keep in mind no prophet has ever done such a thing before ....forcefully spreading the word of Allah ), but this time prophet for Muhammadi(SAW)'s ummah? a prophet who was only a prophet for bani israel will be coming back and forcefully be breaking crosses..? How would that be a proof of his truthfulness? He (AS) HAS to be born again ( reincarnation is not acceptable in islam ).. in order to do all that.. but if he(AS) is coming straight from the skies, then who will be teaching Him islam?.. Quran ? keep in mind, if Allah teaches him all that then its wahi.. and u said wahi is now limited.
Muhammad PBUH is the seal of the prophets..I cannot even for a second believe that Islam would need someone from outside the Muhammadi(SAW)'s shariyah for help. Every other prophethood has now come to an end except the prophethood of MuhammadPBUH..its ever lasting..( i will say this a thousands or million times if i have to , because this is the greatest praise of my beloved prophet Muhammad PBUH ) The greatest, the glorious,the most exalted and master of the prophets. Rehmatul lil aalameen.
Peace Mr.Popat
As we are not talking about Mirza Ghulam Ahmed then I don't need to justify my statement about him earlier, this can be given if you so choose in another setting; however I'm not lying.
Divine Inspiration - there is the sort of wahi that even a 'bee' gets. There are documented volumes of types of wahi so you are showing ignorance of these. Dreams are different from visions, hadith commentaries of Muhammad (SAW)'s personal interpretation are different from hadith Qudsi and these are all different from 'direct' wahi as revealed scripture from Allah (SWT) - the Lawhu-Mahfuz through the medium of Jibreel (AS) and to the utterings of Muhammad (SAW).
The reason why Musa (AS) didn't touch the fire as a baby and went to the gems was because he (AS) was divinely inspired. Bringing about an argument cannot be limited to domain of rationale if you can't fathom it then please don't ask me to make a choice based on your false options. (Now don't say that I am comparing Isa (AS) to a bee, just in case you get the inclings to say such a ridiculous thing. Advice is to learn about the beliefs of Ahl-us-Sunnah before you challenge them).
There are plenty of references amounting to the 'dual' mission of Isa (AS). The former as a spiritual master the latter as a military might. You cannot throw 'logic' at me and expect it to be proof against my position because my position Alhumdullillah is backed up with evidence. The very references you use and convert to metaphors are the very ones I use in a different way, a literal way.
Furthermore there will be no forcing of conversion just miracle upon miracle. He (AS) is the same prophet and will be the same in the time to come. He (AS) will live as a Muslim and complete the prophecies of Muhammad (SAW) in his own life. The seal of the prophets does not mean that there will be no prophet to die after Muhammad (SAW), rather it means there will be no prophet to be born and appointed after Muhammad (SAW). No more prophets does not mean no more chances. By coming back as an Ummati he (AS) will show that the religion of Muhammad (SAW) is the last testimony. He will teach us how to be 'followers' again by being the best amongst us.
Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)
sigh too much have you written psyah , and i dont know which issue to tackle at first.
by the way, have you seen the video kchughtai posted in the first page of this thread? its interesting, please do watch.
Again, we will talk about wahi and types of wahis in some other thread. At the moment , lets focus on the issue of khaatamn nabiyeen.
[QUOTE]
Furthermore there will be no forcing of conversion just miracle upon miracle. He (AS) is the same prophet and will be the same in the time to come. He (AS) will live as a Muslim and complete the prophecies of Muhammad (SAW) in his own life. The seal of the prophets does not mean that there will be no prophet to die after Muhammad (SAW), rather it means there will be no prophet to be born and appointed after Muhammad (SAW). No more prophets does not mean no more chances. By coming back as an Ummati he (AS) will show that the religion of Muhammad (SAW) is the last testimony. He will teach us how to be 'followers' again by being the best amongst us.
[/QUOTE]
Please put forth your answer in a very simple manner ( you might have done it before but wasnt simple enough as it was all over the place )..so lets just go slowly.
1) if you're taking everything literally as you said, then please let me know how it is not forcefully converting people, if Jesus(AS)'s mission is military? wheres the miracle in that?
2) Same prophet when he will come as you said. Question is , if he (AS) follows Islam, will it have to be the Islam Ahl e sunnah is following? Can His teachings of Islam contradict Ahle sunnah's beliefs? Are you 100% certain that he will be accepted regardless of His teachings of Islam ? Keep in mind, even to have a military mission, he (AS) would need divine guidance. Will you accept Him (AS) if he says that His teaching of Islam is the purest teaching , which was once practiced by Prophet Muhammad PBUH? Again, if he(AS) even being an ummati teaches something other than what uve been believing.. is he acceptable? >>>>> its a very important question, and i would like you to take your time in answering this..
3) last but certainly not the least.. what is this??
[QUOTE]
The seal of the prophets does not mean that there will be no prophet to die after Muhammad (SAW), rather it means there will be no prophet to be born and appointed after Muhammad (SAW)
[/QUOTE]
Please read the above statement again and try making sense out of it for yourself. Someone must be born first in order to die after Muhammad PBUH. You're twisting everything there.. just because reincarnation is a no no in islam, and you need someone after MuhammadPBUH..u decide that no one new can be born but previous can come?
If you take seal as last ... does it not mean any prophet who is last is last.. Prophet muhammad pbuh can only be last if every other prophet before him has died.
If i am in a race and comes last, you will only give the title of being last you dont see anyone else behind me running. If someone else is still there, im not last.
If we both were given glass of water , the last person to drink would be anyone who has the last sip. It does not matter who was given water first.
please reflect upon it with clear mind. thanks.
bud, no need to get all sentimental. Sit back,relax and answer the question which are directly related to the khatm e nabuwat.
What kchughtai asked is exactly what i was gona ask as well..
Prophet Isa (AS) wont be a nabi , but his nabuwat wont be taken away from him??
how will he know Islam, if the door of revelation is closed? if he (AS) received anything from Allah, he(AS) will be going against Islam.. no?
He will be taught in the heavens by Allah and sent to earth.
Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)
sigh too much have you written psyah , and i dont know which issue to tackle at first.
by the way, have you seen the video kchughtai posted in the first page of this thread? its interesting, please do watch.
Again, we will talk about wahi and types of wahis in some other thread. At the moment , lets focus on the issue of khaatamn nabiyeen.
Please put forth your answer in a very simple manner ( you might have done it before but wasnt simple enough as it was all over the place )..so lets just go slowly.
1) if you're taking everything literally as you said, then please let me know how it is not forcefully converting people, if Jesus(AS)'s mission is military? wheres the miracle in that?
2) Same prophet when he will come as you said. Question is , if he (AS) follows Islam, will it have to be the Islam Ahl e sunnah is following? Can His teachings of Islam contradict Ahle sunnah's beliefs? Are you 100% certain that he will be accepted regardless of His teachings of Islam ? Keep in mind, even to have a military mission, he (AS) would need divine guidance. Will you accept Him (AS) if he says that His teaching of Islam is the purest teaching , which was once practiced by Prophet Muhammad PBUH? Again, if he(AS) even being an ummati teaches something other than what uve been believing.. is he acceptable? >>>>> its a very important question, and i would like you to take your time in answering this..
3) last but certainly not the least.. what is this??
Please read the above statement again and try making sense out of it for yourself. Someone must be born first in order to die after Muhammad PBUH. You're twisting everything there.. just because reincarnation is a no no in islam, and you need someone after MuhammadPBUH..u decide that no one new can be born but previous can come?
If you take seal as last ... does it not mean any prophet who is last is last.. Prophet muhammad pbuh can only be last if every other prophet before him has died.
If i am in a race and comes last, you will only give the title of being last you dont see anyone else behind me running. If someone else is still there, im not last.
If we both were given glass of water , the last person to drink would be anyone who has the last sip. It does not matter who was given water first.
please reflect upon it with clear mind. thanks.
Okay let's be simple;
1) The campaigns will be military based; people will be marching against people. Those who are not in sight of Isa (AS) will fight the believers and those who will be covered by his sight will receive enlightenment by way of miracle whilst on the battlefield. There are clear references for this account.
2) Yes, part of the mission of the Mahdi before Isa (AS) is to align the Muslims, the belief is that the Muslims will be united by the arrival of Isa (AS), so whether we are right or wrong is pointless to discuss if Isa (AS) comes in our life times we will recognise him and accept him, by what happens in accordance with the hadith. i.e. he will literally descend on the shoulders of two angels, this corresponds to the Biblical account of him being taken up by two angels and then it states in the manner as he left he will return, which implies 'descension' as he had 'ascended' in body and soul. If he arrives in this manner and teaches something other than what I believe and follow and if he arrives and unifies large masses, I mean majority of Muslims (>50%) in his own life then I will follow him. It needs to be understood that there is a difference between madhab and aqeedah. I do not believe that my aqeedah is wrong, but I do believe that my madhab may not be the preferred one for Isa (AS). Hence, I do not believe that Isa (AS) will teach other than the established ‘aqeedah of the current majority of Muslims; that is my firm conviction. As part of this answer we are warned about imposters who will come saying they are the Mahdi or the Masih. They can only be rooted out by their lack of semblance to the hadith that describe him. That is the reason why those particular hadith have to be taken literally because the least level of interpretation is required for literal words than for metaphoric words and their need to be clear is paramount for them to be understood by Muslims in order to identify the imposters from the real Isa (AS). Those hadith are all we have so they must be effective!!!
3) I have absolutely a clear mind. My version is possible your one is not. I can give you a simple example. A man becomes a father, his son dies before him, and then the father dies afterwards. This happens many times without compromising a principle of Islam which is 'we live and die in this world once'. To have the concept of someone dying and being born again is 'reincarnation' and to modify this it has to be introduced that we exclude this concept of it being the same person, and that only the title is carried over, by doing so we have introduced another level of complexity and further we must then reinterpret the meaning of ‘khatim-in-nabeeyin’ to mean something other than ‘final’, because then we reduce it to mean something else. Sometimes it is restated as being “the seal” which is fine, because a seal is used to authenticate/certify a product or letter at the end as a final pass. Also, before you send a letter or parcel away you ‘seal’ it. A seal has two functions which are to show importance but also to show that license has been given for what comes before it … not after it. It is the last process step to take place and we take both meanings to be ‘real not a severed part of the meaning.
There will be no ‘new’ appointment of prophethood. Either during or after the lifetime of Muhammad (SAW) there will be no person who will be appointed prophethood. In the case of Isa (AS) who we believe has not died will die soon, but before this he will fulfil his (AS) mission and by returning as the same person then we do not compromise the injunction of “no new appointment of prophethood” furthermore he will not impress his position as a prophet, rather he will be a follower and that will be his sign. He will ‘rule’ for a set amount of time and that has not happened either. The Second Coming of Masih Isa Ibn Maryam (AS) will not be spent convincing us of his authentic status, it will be manifest before us. No dialogue, no debate. It will happen when Mahdi is already around and Isa (AS) will be expected. Dajjal in person will also be present before Isa (AS), but not in force before the Mahdi. The Mahdi will be recognised in Makkah, bloodshed will take place and the sincerest will be there and he will be forced to take the bayah from the people.
These are clear signs.
If we accept that new appointments can be made then we have to reduce the meaning of ‘khatim’ and reinterpret the hadith to metaphors that prophesy his return leaving us open to imposters who claim to be him (AS). The moment we open those particular hadith to metaphoric interpretation we will have to fend off more than one candidate for Masih there will be many who qualify to date. By not allowing the metaphoric interpretation then none qualify to date, which is good because some other signs that are contemporary to the Second Coming as above are yet to occur.
Okay let's be simple;
1) The campaigns will be military based; people will be marching against people. Those who are not in sight of Isa (AS) will fight the believers and those who will be covered by his sight will receive enlightenment by way of miracle whilst on the battlefield. There are clear references for this account.
2) Yes, part of the mission of the Mahdi before Isa (AS) is to align the Muslims, the belief is that the Muslims will be united by the arrival of Isa (AS), so whether we are right or wrong is pointless to discuss if Isa (AS) comes in our life times we will recognise him and accept him, by what happens in accordance with the hadith. i.e. he will literally descend on the shoulders of two angels, this corresponds to the Biblical account of him being taken up by two angels and then it states in the manner as he left he will return, which implies 'descension' as he had 'ascended' in body and soul. If he arrives in this manner and teaches something other than what I believe and follow and if he arrives and unifies large masses, I mean majority of Muslims (>50%) in his own life then I will follow him. It needs to be understood that there is a difference between madhab and aqeedah. I do not believe that my aqeedah is wrong, but I do believe that my madhab may not be the preferred one for Isa (AS). Hence, I do not believe that Isa (AS) will teach other than the established ‘aqeedah of the current majority of Muslims; that is my firm conviction. As part of this answer we are warned about imposters who will come saying they are the Mahdi or the Masih. They can only be rooted out by their lack of semblance to the hadith that describe him. That is the reason why those particular hadith have to be taken literally because the least level of interpretation is required for literal words than for metaphoric words and their need to be clear is paramount for them to be understood by Muslims in order to identify the imposters from the real Isa (AS). Those hadith are all we have so they must be effective!!!
3) I have absolutely a clear mind. My version is possible your one is not. I can give you a simple example. A man becomes a father, his son dies before him, and then the father dies afterwards. This happens many times without compromising a principle of Islam which is 'we live and die in this world once'. To have the concept of someone dying and being born again is 'reincarnation' and to modify this it has to be introduced that we exclude this concept of it being the same person, and that only the title is carried over, by doing so we have introduced another level of complexity and further we must then reinterpret the meaning of ‘khatim-in-nabeeyin’ to mean something other than ‘final’, because then we reduce it to mean something else. Sometimes it is restated as being “the seal” which is fine, because a seal is used to authenticate/certify a product or letter at the end as a final pass. Also, before you send a letter or parcel away you ‘seal’ it. A seal has two functions which are to show importance but also to show that license has been given for what comes before it … not after it. It is the last process step to take place and we take both meanings to be ‘real not a severed part of the meaning.
There will be no ‘new’ appointment of prophethood. Either during or after the lifetime of Muhammad (SAW) there will be no person who will be appointed prophethood. In the case of Isa (AS) who we believe has not died will die soon, but before this he will fulfil his (AS) mission and by returning as the same person then we do not compromise the injunction of “no new appointment of prophethood” furthermore he will not impress his position as a prophet, rather he will be a follower and that will be his sign. He will ‘rule’ for a set amount of time and that has not happened either. The Second Coming of Masih Isa Ibn Maryam (AS) will not be spent convincing us of his authentic status, it will be manifest before us. No dialogue, no debate. It will happen when Mahdi is already around and Isa (AS) will be expected. Dajjal in person will also be present before Isa (AS), but not in force before the Mahdi. The Mahdi will be recognised in Makkah, bloodshed will take place and the sincerest will be there and he will be forced to take the bayah from the people.
These are clear signs.
If we accept that new appointments can be made then we have to reduce the meaning of ‘khatim’ and reinterpret the hadith to metaphors that prophesy his return leaving us open to imposters who claim to be him (AS). The moment we open those particular hadith to metaphoric interpretation we will have to fend off more than one candidate for Masih there will be many who qualify to date. By not allowing the metaphoric interpretation then none qualify to date, which is good because some other signs that are contemporary to the Second Coming as above are yet to occur.
Very good answer bro!
Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)
O Jesus Christ!