Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Thank you.

Islam is perfect, and Allah has chosen Islam for us as a religion. Wonderful.
Now, to have an understanding of Islam,(which is perfect), we need Jesus(AS)?

. A simple, and polite answer would be great and appreciated.

Thanks for the thread though. It was a nice read. :). Keep contributing.

PS: oh and nice its a sticky now..

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Isn't Quran and Hadees enough for us to understand Islam (if we want to), why would we need Jesus (AS).

Didn't ALlah say that he has given us Quran and the life of Prophet pbuh for us to understand Islam?

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Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)

oh, i did not know you split that thread and started this thread with my question.

Lusi, your reply doesnt really help much .. let me try to clarify a little , if i may.

My whole point of this question was trying to understand that we're told Islam is now complete, now , to understand that 'complete' religion, we have all sorts of maulanas/mullahs/scholars who try to interpret Quran the way they think is correct. However, what needs to be noted here is that all these scholars are interpreting based on their understanding of Islam/Quran, they never claim that this interpretation was told to me by Allah.

Do Muslims not believe Jesus (AS) will come back again, and will be the follower of Islam and will bring people to Islam? Will he(AS) then not need to bring the 'real' meaning of the verses of Quran which are creating division in Muslim Ummah. But, even if Jesus (AS) were to do this, it will create another division within Ummah.

Again, Islam , as i completely believe is a true religion and is complete upon the arrival of greatest prophet Muhammad peace and blessings of Allah be upon Him. But, does this complete religion guarantee the understanding of the religion or just knowing that its a complete religion is more then enough ?

Do we need anyone from Allah to tell us what Quran really tells us?, or is it ok to keep taking the meaning of Quran as whatever maulana sahab tells us?

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the completion of the religion means the end of wahi of Allah and the cessation of amendments and additions to the religion itself. to accomodate the changing times new guidances need to be spelled out and for that we approach the knowledgeable.

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Abu-Hurariah said that the prophet Muhammad said, "By him in whose hands my soul rests, surely Jesus, Son, of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind judiciously, by the law of the Quran, as an honest ruler. He will break the cross, kill the pigs and abolish jizya. Money will abound in such excess that no one will wish to accept it. A single prostration to Allah, in prayer, will be better that the whole world and all it contains.

"“By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, the son of Mariam (Hazrat Isa Alaihis Salaam) will shortly descend amongst you people as a just ruler. [Sahih Bukhari ]

therefore Hazrat Isa (as) purpose of arrival is to be a sign for qiamat, kill dajjal, and be a just ruler nothing more and He will be the umati of Hazoor (saww). he prayed to Allah for this shirf.

Hadhrat Isa's (A.S.) Descension The Physical Features of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) He will resemble the famous Sahabi (A.S.) Hadhrat Urwa bin Masoodi (R.A.). He will be of average height and red and white in colour. His hair spread to the shoulders, straight, neat and shining as after a bath. On bending his head, it will seem as if pearls are falling. He will have an armour on his body. He will be wearing two pieces of cloth light yellow in color.

His Descension
He will descend on a Jamaat (group) that will be righteous at the time and comprising of 800 men and 400 women. The people will be preparing for war at the time against (the anti-Christ). It will be time for Fajr prayers, and will be the Amir (leader). From the darkness of the dawn, a sound will suddenly be heard that "one who listens to your pleas has come" -- the righteous people will look everywhere and their eyes will fall on Isa (A.S.). Briefly, at the time of Fajr, Isa (A.S.) will descend.

When descending, Isa (A.S.)'s hands will be on the shoulders of two angels (according to another source (Kab Abrar), a cloud will carry him). On their insistence Hadhrat Isa will introduce himself. He will inquire about their enthusiasm and thoughts on Jihad against Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will descend on the eastern side near the Minaret in Damascus (or in Baitul-Muqaddus by Imam Mahdi). At the time Imam Mahdi will have proceeded forward to lead the Fajr Salaat.

The Iqamat of the Salaat would have been said (already recited) and Imam Mahdi will call Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) for Imamat (to lead the prayer), but he (Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)) will instead tell Imam Mahdi to lead the prayer since the Iqamat of that Salaat has already been said for him. Thus Imam Mahdi will lead the prayer, and Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will follow him. After the ruku, he will make this statement: "Allah has killed Dajjal and the Muslims have appeared."

The Killing of Dajjal and the Victory of the Muslims

After the completion of Fajr Salaat (congregational dawn prayers), Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will open the door behind him where Dajjal accompanied by 70,000 Yahudis (Jews) will be. He will indicate with his hand to move away between him (Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)) and Dajjal. Dajjal will then see Hadhrat Isa (A.S.). At that time every Kafir on whom the breath of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will reach, will die. His breath will reach up to the distance of his eyesight. The Muslims will then come down from the mountains and break loose on the army of Dajjal. There will be war, Dajjal will retreat, and Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will pursue Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will have two flexible swords and one shield with him and with these he will kill Dajjal at the Gate of Hudd.

He willl show the Muslims the blood of Dajjal which will get on his shield. Eventually the Yahudis will be selected and killed. The swine will be killed and the cross broken. People will revert to Islam. Wars will end, and people will return to their respective countries. One Jamaat (group) of Muslims will remain in his service and companionship.

Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will go to Fajr Rawha and perform Haj or Umrah (or both) from there. He will also go to the grave of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) and present his greetings and Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) will reply. People will live comfortable lives. The wall of Yajooj and Majooj will then break.

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Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)

AoA
Lucy please close the sticky version of this thread :)
thanks

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i removed some of your post in this quote to keep the discussion to the point, and the stuff that i do not wish to talk about at this moment, though, what you brought up also raise lots of questions but at this moment im not interested.

Let me give you an example if i may.. if i were to tell you that Zaid will marry two women "BEFORE" he dies. Now, this means he will be marrying two women before dying but that doesnt necessarily mean that the moment he marries the second woman, he will suddenly die right away. Same is the case when it is told that Jesus (AS)'s arrival will be in the end days, however, this only means that qayamat will not happen UNLESS Jesus AS has arrived. Once he(AS) is there, now qayamat can happen today, tomorrow , 100 years from now or even 1000 years... It is not to be taken as the moment he arives, thats the end of the world. Hope that make sense.

Regarding Him being the umati of Hazoor SAW, well, you then admit that Hazrat Jesus (AS) will be the last prophet to be lived ? Now, whether he will be an ummati or not ummati or whether he AS came before Muhammad PBUH ..is out of the question here. The fact that He (AS) will be the last prophet to be sent (again...somehow) to mankind would make Him the khataman nabiyeen, if it means literally to be the last.

Are you saying His (AS)'s nabuwat will be taken away from him ? because on one hand you're saying Muhammad PBUH is the last in every literal meaning and that NO new OR previous prophet can come after Holy Prophet PBUH ?

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Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)

^HE will not come as a prophet but as a just ruler.

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Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)

and if i provide you with a hadith in which Prophet Muhammad PBUH is referring Jesus (AS) as nabi-ullah 4 times ?

what about Quran? will you nauzubillah disregard the verses in which Prophet Isa AS was referred as Prophet to bani israel ?

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He (as) is a nabi and a rasool.

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The Last Hour will not come before there come forth thirty Dajjals (imposters), each presenting himself as an apostle of Allah. (Abu Dawood)

Allah will send ‘Isa (as) son of Maryam to Earth. He will descend with two angels wearing two beautiful garments in his palms to the white minaret in the east of Sham. (Tirmidhi, Fitan, p. 59)

Later, Prophet ‘Isa (as) will descend to the white minaret in the east of Damascus (Sham). The imam will withdraw, and Prophet ‘Isa (as) will go to the fore and lead the people in prayer.
(Muhyiddin Ibn Arabi, The Conquests of Mecca, 366. Vol. 3, p. 327)

Sayyidina Abu Huraira relates that the Prophet (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) of God after mentioning the exile of Dajjal said: "The Muslims will be preparing for war with Dajjal and they will be falling in line in preparation for offering Prayers and the Takbir will have been said for Prayers when in the meantime Christ (A.S), son of Mary, will descend and lead Muslims in Prayer. The enemy of God, Dajjal, on seeing him will start melting like salt in water. If Christ (A.S) would leave Dajjal alone, he would melt and die anyway, but God will cause Dajjal to be slain at the hand of Christ (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) and Christ willdisplay his spear strained with the blood of Dajjal to the Muslims."
(Mishkat, Kitab-ul-Fitan, Bab: al-Malahim, quoted by Muslim)

According to above hadith dajjal will arrive before Hazrat Isa (as)

Sayyidina Abu Huraira reports that the Apostle (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) of Allah affirmed: "No Prophet shall come during the period between me and Jesus (A.S). And Jesus shall descend. Recognize him when you see him; he is a man of medium height and of a rudy, fair complexion. He will be dressed in two pieces of yellow garment. The hair of his head will appear as if water is trickling out of them, though his hair would not be wet. He will fight for the cause of Islam. He will break the Cross into pieces. He will slay the swine. He will abolish the Jizya on non-believers. In his time God will put an end to all other faiths except the religion of Islam. And Christ will kill Dajjal. He will live on this earth for a period of forty years and at the end of this period he will pass away. The Muslims will offer the funeral prayers of Christ (A.S).
(Abu Dawud, Kitabul-Malahim, Bab: Khuruj-ul-Dajjal; Musnad Ahmad, Marwiyat Abu Huraira)

So mirza kazzab of qadian being Hazrat Isa (as) ( astagfriAllah)is out of queation. february 13, 1835 – may 26, 1908 = 73 yrs

At this point an important question comes to our attention. How will ‘Isa (as) be recognized? Surely, the clearest indication that it is him who will be in possession of all the features common to a prophet as mentioned in the Qur’an. In addition, he will bring an important sign to indicate that he is ‘Isa (as). When he comes, there will be no one that would have seen ‘Isa (as) before in person and therefore there will be no one to recognize him. None will be able to recognize him by his physical appearance or by the sound of his voice. No one will be able to say that he knew ‘Isa (as) personally, or saw him at such and such a time; no one will have known his family or his relatives. All those who would have known him would have died 2000 years ago. Maryam (as), Zakariyya (as), his disciples, who spent years with him, as well as all those to whom ‘Isa (as) communicated the message of Allah, will have already died. Therefore, there will be none who would have experienced his birth, childhood, youth or adulthood when he comes for the second time. No one will know anything about him

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Did any one say other wise??

The Last Hour will not come until you see the descent of ‘Isa (as) son of Maryam (as). (Muslim)

The Hour will not be established until the son of Maryam (as) (i.e. ‘Isa (as))descends amongst you as a just ruler.
(Bukhari)

At the time of his death, 'Isa (as) will have reappeared on this earth for forty years.(Abu Dawood)

The Prophet (saas) tells what ‘Isa (as) will do when he returns:
‘Isa (as), son of Maryam (as), will descend, rule for 40 years with the book of Allah and my sunnah, and die.
(Al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Al-Burhan fi Alamat al-Mahdi Akhir al-Zaman

isa (as), son of Maryam (as), will be a just judge and just ruler (in my community), break and crush the cross and kill the pig ... The earth will be so filled of peace as a vessel is filled with water. The entire world shall recite and follow one and the same Word and none shall be worshipped except Allah.
(Ibn Majah)

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Sayyidna Isa (alayh issalam) will not come into the world at that time designated as Prophet, but he would come to lead the Muslim community as the Khalifa of the Holy Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam), but the personal station of prophethood that he has will not be taken from him

Hadeeth narrated by Al-Bazzaar on the authority of Jaabir . He said, “‘Umar copied part of the Torah in Arabic, brought it to the Prophet , and began to read it to him. As he read, the Prophet’s face changed color. One of the men of the Ansaar said, "Woe to you Ibn Al-Khattaab! Can you not see the face of the Messenger of Allaah?’ Thereupon, the Prophet , said, ‘Do not ask the People of the Book about anything for they will not guide you when they have gone astray. (If you listen to them) You will either disbelieve in what is right or believe in what is false. By Allaah, if Moses had been alive today, he would have been obliged to follow me.’”

Same applies to Hazrat Isa (as)

At this point, there is an important issue we must stop and consider. In the Qur’an and in the hadiths, there is no doubt that ‘Isa (as) will return to earth during the End Times. Today, on the other hand, some people disregard the evident proofs regarding this return, and suggest that it is possible that ‘Isa (as) will return after the Prophet Muhammad (saww) comes, secondly, there is no contradiction between the fact that Muhammad (saas) is the last Prophet and that ‘Isa (as) will return to earth. When ‘Isa (as) comes for the second time, he will not bring a new religion but will be subject to the true religion communicated by the Qur’an and the Prophet Muhammad (saas).

With reference to the episode of Dajjal, Sayyidina 'Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) reports that "Sayyidina 'Isa (A.S) will descend and slay Dajjal. After this Sayyidina 'Isa (A.S) shall rule over the earth as a just leader and a benevolent sovereign for a period of forty years."
(Musnad Ahmad)

It doesn’t say prophet or Rasool

Sayyidina Abu Huraira reports that the Apostle (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) of Allah observed: "What will you be like when the son of Mary shall descend among ye and a person among ye will discharge the office of Imam (leader in Prayers)."[The implication is that Jesus(A.S) will not act as the leader of Prayers.He will offer Prayers behind the already existing Imam of Muslims.]

(Bukhari, Kitab Ahadith Anbiya, Bab: Nuzul Isa; Muslim, Nuzul Isa; Musnad Ahmad, Marwiyat Abu Huraira)
Jabir b. Abdullah relates that while narrating the episode of Dajjal, the Holy Prophet (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) observed: "At that time Christ, son of Mary, will suddenly descend among the Muslims. A congregation will be assembled for prayer and he shall be asked: " O Spirit of God, come forward and lead (us in Prayer)." But he will say, 'No, your own Imam shall step forward and act as the leader.' Thus when the Muslims will have offered the morning Prayer, they will set out to do battle against Dajjal. When that liar will look on Christ (A.S), he will start melting like salt in water. Christ (A.S) shall advance towards him and slay him. And it will come to pass that every stone will cry out: 'Spirit of Allah, this Jew is hiding behind me.'
Not a single follower of Dajjal will escape slaughter."
(Musnad Ahmad, Basissila Riwayat Jabir b. Abdullah)

Nabis of time always act as imams in prayers this hadiths proves that hazat Isa (as) will not be acting as a nabi but a umati of Hazoor (saww)

Uthman b. Abi al-As reports that he heard the Prophet of God (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) as saying: "And Christ son of Mary will descend at the time of morniing prayer. The leader of the muslims will say to him, "O spirit of God, Be thou our leader in prayer." He will answer "The people of this Ummah are leaders unto each other." At this, the leader of the muslims shall step forward and lead the prayers. When the prayer is over, Christ (A.S) will take hold of his weapon and advance towards Dajjal. Dajjal, on seeing Christ shall start melting like lead. Christ (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) will slay him with his weapon. The companions of Dajjal will be defeated. They will flee away, but will not find a hiding place anywhere. Even the trees will cry out,"O pious, this infidel is hiding behind me," and the stones will say, "O pious, this unbeliever has taken cover behind me."
(Musnad Ahmad, Tabarani, Hakim)
Khaatamun Nabiyeen Sual Allahu 'Alyhi WaSallam said:

“In my Ummah, 30 liars will be born. Each will claim Prophethood and claim to be a Prophet, even though I am the last Prophet and there shall be no Prophet after me."

(Tirmidhi; Abu Dawood)

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Complete hadith regarging Hazrat Isa (as) arrival

An-Nawwas b. Sam'an reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) made a mention of the Dajjal one day in the morning. He sometimes described him to be insignificant and sometimes described (his turmoil) as very significant and we felt as if he were in the cluster of the date-palm trees. When we went to him (to the Holy Prophet) in the evening and he read (the signs of fear) in our faces, he said: What is the matter with you? We said: Allah's Messenger, you made a mention of the Dajjal in the morning (sometimes describing him) to be insignificant and sometimes very important, until we began to think as if he were present in some (near) part of the cluster of the date-palm trees. Thereupon he said: I harbour fear in regard to you in so many other things besides the Dajjal. If he comes forth while I am among on, I shall contend with him on your behalf, but if he comes forth while I am not amongst you, a man must contend on his own behalf and Allah would take care of every Muslim on my behalf (and safeguard him against his evil). He (Dajjal) would be a young man with twisted, contracted hair, and a blind eye. I compare him to 'Abd-ul-'Uzza b. Qatan. He who amongst you would survive to see him should recite over him the opening verses of Sura Kahf (xviii.). He would appear on the way between Syria and Iraq and would spread mischief right and left. O servant of Allah! adhere (to the path of Truth). We said: Allah's Messenger, how long would he stay on the earth? He said: For forty days, one day like a year and one day like a month and one day like a week and the rest of the days would be like your days. We said: Allah's Messenger, would one day's prayer suffice for the prayers of day equal to one year? Thereupon he said: No, but you must make an estimate of time (and then observe prayer). We said: Allah's Messenger, how quickly would he walk upon the earth? Thereupon he said: Like cloud driven by the wind. He would come to the people and invite them (to a wrong religion) and they would affirm their faith in him and respond to him. He would then give command to the sky and there would be rainfall upon the earth and it would grow crops. Then in the evening, their posturing animals would come to them with their humps very high and their udders full of milk and their flanks stretched. He would then come to another people and invite them. But they would reject him and he would go away from them and there would be drought for them and nothing would be left with them in the form of wealth. He would then walk through the waste, land and say to it: Bring forth your treasures, and the treasures would come out and collect (themselves) before him like the swarm of bees. He would then call a person brimming with youth and strike him with the sword and cut him into two pieces and (make these pieces lie at a distance which is generally) between the archer and his target. He would then call (that young man) and he will come forward laughing with his face gleaming (with happiness) and it would at this very time that Allah would send Christ, son of Mary, and he will descend at the white minaret in the eastern side of Damascus wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and placing his hands on the wings of two Angels. When he would lower his head, there would fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he would raise it up, beads like pearls would scatter from it. Every non-believer who would smell the odour of his self would die and his breath would reach as far as he would be able to see. He would then search for him (Dajjal) until he would catch hold of him at the gate of Ludd and would kill him. Then a people whom Allah had protected would come to Jesus, son of Mary, and he would wipe their faces and would inform them of their ranks in Paradise and it would be under such conditions that Allah would reveal to Jesus these words: I have brought forth from amongst My servants such people against whom none would be able to fight; you take these people safely to Tur, and then Allah would send Gog and Magog and they would swarm down from every slope. The first of them would pass the lake of Tibering and drink out of it. And when the last of them would pass, he would say: There was once water there. Jesus and his companions would then be besieged here (at Tur, and they would be so much hard pressed) that the head of the ox would be dearer to them than one hundred dinirs and Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would supplicate Allah, Who would send to them insects (which would attack their necks) and in the morning they would perish like one single person. Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then come down to the earth and they would not find in the earth as much space as a single span which is not filled with their putrefaction and stench. Allah's Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then again beseech Allah, Who would send birds whose necks would be like those of camels and they would carry them and throw them where God would will. Then Allah would send rain which no house of clay or (the tent of) camels' hairs would keep out and it would wash away the earth until it could appear to be a mirror. Then the earth would be told to bring forth its fruit and restore its blessing and, as a result thereof, there would grow (such a big) pomegranate that a group of persons would be able to eat that, and seek shelter under its skin and milch cow would give so much milk that a whole party would be able to drink it. And the milch camel would give such (a large quantity of) milk that the whole tribe would be able to drink out of that and the milch sheep would give so much milk that the whole family would be able to drink out of that and at that time Allah would send a pleasant wind which would soothe (people) even under their armpits, and would take the life of every Muslim and only the wicked would survive who would commit adultery like asses and the Last Hour would come to them.
(Muslim)

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sorry for jumping in but I would like to post here something that would provide some context. Here is video and see what reasons jewish scholars present to prove that Jesus(as) was not the true messiah, the long awaited Jewish messiah.

here are summary points raised by Jewish scholar:

  1. The jewish messiah is supposed to have political mission rather than spiritual one.
  2. We don’t need an intermediary to bring man closer to the God
  3. Must fulfill the messianic prophecies:
    • cause wolf to lie with a lamb (sher bakri aik ghat par)
    • The messiah will bring universal dominion of peace. there is indiscriminate slaughter and no justice. certainly he has not come yet
    • There will be universal knowledge of God. No atheists and no agnostics will be there
  4. Elijah (prophet Ilyas(as)) will come and tell us that Messiah has come
    According to Jewish traditions, Prophet Elijah was ascended to the heavens and will come again to harbinger the coming of Jewish messiah. While Christians present prophet Yahya (as)[John the baptist] as Elijah i.e., Elijah who ascended to heavens and supposed to come again, didn’t come in person but Prophet yahya(as) came [not descended from the heavens of course] in his name

Did that ring any bell in your head. No? OK..

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/\ no.. sorry (do you mean dajjal)

lol… http://www.real-islam.org/

“Prophets used to administer among the Israelites. When a prophet died another prophet became his successor. But there will be no prophet after me. Soon there will be *khalifahs *and they will be many.” (Sahih of al-Bukhari and Muslim; Musnad of Imam Ahmad; Ibn Majah.

“I have been given superiority over prophets in six things… Prophets have come to an end with me” (Muslim, Nasa’i, Tirmizi

“It is reported from Sa’d, son of Abi Waqqas, that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), said to Ali: ‘You stand to me in the same relation as Aaron stood to Moses, except that there is no prophet after me.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Muslim, Mishkat al-Masabih, ch. Manaqib Ali

“Had there been a prophet after me it would have been Umar.” (Tirmizi ch. Manaqib Umar)

“In my Ummah, 30 liars will be born. Each will claim Prophethood and claim to be a Prophet, even though I am the last Prophet and there shall be no Prophet after me."

(Tirmidhi; Abu Dawood)

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Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)

kchughtai An older thread that mite intrest you!!

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/321927-allegations-against-ahmediyya.html

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Since you said HE(AS) is a nabi of Allah, I m not interested in dajjals or liars or whoever you're referring to. My question is solely to have an idea of how much do you know about khatm e nabuwat.

Im NOT concerned with how long he will rule, what His mission will be, when He AS will come etc. Im just asking , since you said he'll be a prophet, what will happen to the finality of prophethood?

Please have a healthy discussion as i really would like to learn something that make sense to me. I am not interested in copy/pasting stuff from the internet as i can do that myself as well.

Thanks, and hope my question is clear enough now.

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As far as I understand your question are you asking why there is a need for Jesus (AH) to come since the religion is complete.

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Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)

^sure, take that as a question. And to add to it, would Jesus (AS) have the right to interpret Quran according to his understanding?

PS: love your signature UZ.