Re: Split Hadiths on Finallity of Prophet Muhammad (saww)

psyah · July 20, 2010, 3:00pm

by the way, have you seen the video kchughtai posted in the first page of this thread? its interesting, please do watch.

Again, we will talk about wahi and types of wahis in some other thread. At the moment , lets focus on the issue of khaatamn nabiyeen.

Please put forth your answer in a very simple manner ( you might have done it before but wasnt simple enough as it was all over the place )..so lets just go slowly.

if you’re taking everything literally as you said, then please let me know how it is not forcefully converting people, if Jesus(AS)'s mission is military? wheres the miracle in that?

Same prophet when he will come as you said. Question is , if he (AS) follows Islam, will it have to be the Islam Ahl e sunnah is following? Can His teachings of Islam contradict Ahle sunnah’s beliefs? Are you 100% certain that he will be accepted regardless of His teachings of Islam ? Keep in mind, even to have a military mission, he (AS) would need divine guidance. Will you accept Him (AS) if he says that His teaching of Islam is the purest teaching , which was once practiced by Prophet Muhammad PBUH? Again, if he(AS) even being an ummati teaches something other than what uve been believing.. is he acceptable? >>>>> its a very important question, and i would like you to take your time in answering this..

last but certainly not the least.. what is this??

Please read the above statement again and try making sense out of it for yourself. Someone must be born first in order to die after Muhammad PBUH. You’re twisting everything there.. just because reincarnation is a no no in islam, and you need someone after MuhammadPBUH..u decide that no one new can be born but previous can come?

If you take seal as last … does it not mean any prophet who is last is last.. Prophet muhammad pbuh can only be last if every other prophet before him has died.

If i am in a race and comes last, you will only give the title of being last you dont see anyone else behind me running. If someone else is still there, im not last.

If we both were given glass of water , the last person to drink would be anyone who has the last sip. It does not matter who was given water first.

please reflect upon it with clear mind. thanks.

Okay let’s be simple;

The campaigns will be military based; people will be marching against people. Those who are not in sight of Isa (AS) will fight the believers and those who will be covered by his sight will receive enlightenment by way of miracle whilst on the battlefield. There are clear references for this account.
Yes, part of the mission of the Mahdi before Isa (AS) is to align the Muslims, the belief is that the Muslims will be united by the arrival of Isa (AS), so whether we are right or wrong is pointless to discuss if Isa (AS) comes in our life times we will recognise him and accept him, by what happens in accordance with the hadith. i.e. he will literally descend on the shoulders of two angels, this corresponds to the Biblical account of him being taken up by two angels and then it states in the manner as he left he will return, which implies ‘descension’ as he had ‘ascended’ in body and soul. If he arrives in this manner and teaches something other than what I believe and follow and if he arrives and unifies large masses, I mean majority of Muslims (>50%) in his own life then I will follow him. It needs to be understood that there is a difference between madhab and aqeedah. I do not believe that my aqeedah is wrong, but I do believe that my madhab may not be the preferred one for Isa (AS). Hence, I do not believe that Isa (AS) will teach other than the established ‘aqeedah of the current majority of Muslims; that is my firm conviction. As part of this answer we are warned about imposters who will come saying they are the Mahdi or the Masih. They can only be rooted out by their lack of semblance to the hadith that describe him. That is the reason why those particular hadith have to be taken literally because the least level of interpretation is required for literal words than for metaphoric words and their need to be clear is paramount for them to be understood by Muslims in order to identify the imposters from the real Isa (AS). Those hadith are all we have so they must be effective!!!
I have absolutely a clear mind. My version is possible your one is not. I can give you a simple example. A man becomes a father, his son dies before him, and then the father dies afterwards. This happens many times without compromising a principle of Islam which is ‘we live and die in this world once’. To have the concept of someone dying and being born again is ‘reincarnation’ and to modify this it has to be introduced that we exclude this concept of it being the same person, and that only the title is carried over, by doing so we have introduced another level of complexity and further we must then reinterpret the meaning of ‘khatim-in-nabeeyin’ to mean something other than ‘final’, because then we reduce it to mean something else. Sometimes it is restated as being “the seal” which is fine, because a seal is used to authenticate/certify a product or letter at the end as a final pass. Also, before you send a letter or parcel away you ‘seal’ it. A seal has two functions which are to show importance but also to show that license has been given for what comes before it … not after it. It is the last process step to take place and we take both meanings to be ‘real not a severed part of the meaning.

There will be no ‘new’ appointment of prophethood. Either during or after the lifetime of Muhammad (SAW) there will be no person who will be appointed prophethood. In the case of Isa (AS) who we believe has not died will die soon, but before this he will fulfil his (AS) mission and by returning as the same person then we do not compromise the injunction of “no new appointment of prophethood” furthermore he will not impress his position as a prophet, rather he will be a follower and that will be his sign. He will ‘rule’ for a set amount of time and that has not happened either. The Second Coming of Masih Isa Ibn Maryam (AS) will not be spent convincing us of his authentic status, it will be manifest before us. No dialogue, no debate. It will happen when Mahdi is already around and Isa (AS) will be expected. Dajjal in person will also be present before Isa (AS), but not in force before the Mahdi. The Mahdi will be recognised in Makkah, bloodshed will take place and the sincerest will be there and he will be forced to take the bayah from the people.

These are clear signs.

If we accept that new appointments can be made then we have to reduce the meaning of ‘khatim’ and reinterpret the hadith to metaphors that prophesy his return leaving us open to imposters who claim to be him (AS). The moment we open those particular hadith to metaphoric interpretation we will have to fend off more than one candidate for Masih there will be many who qualify to date. By not allowing the metaphoric interpretation then none qualify to date, which is good because some other signs that are contemporary to the Second Coming as above are yet to occur.