Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

BANGALORE: US defence group Raytheon says it wants to sell India a controversial “pain gun” it claims would be safer than rubber bullets in quelling unrest in the insurgency-racked country. Read More

My comments:

A letter to the DEVIL

SIR

This in response to your recent hapless efforts to procure highly controversial and extremely anguishing ‘radiation guns’ to further agonize innocent Kashmiris, it is in response to arrogant display of your virtuous character, strong show of your moral beliefs or principle that you do not really possess, your unreasonable fear and hatred of our tenet, your stubborn and absolute intolerance of our creed, your complete negation of our beliefs, our opinions that justly differ from your own… SIR

Foisted projections of your motives to deprive innocent Kashmiris of their GOD given right of freedom, your hidden political and religious agenda which is increasingly influenced by netherworld.

Every single day you frantically try to move heaven and earth to reinvent your same old dilapidated stratagems to somehow prove to the world that Pakistan and Islam are the worse things that can happen to the mankind.

We are the educated masses, we are not only here to repudiate but also confute your manipulations by adroitly unearthing and then presenting the truth to the world.

This one is for the people of Kashmir.

The turf is ours… SIR we are the victims here, that certainly deems you the tormentor and oppressor, we are the defenders here, yet, you are the repeat offender who is here for furtherance of these perfidious doctrines or principles propagated by this paranoid, covert and organized movement against Pakistan to achieve certain political agenda, and above all SIR, your double standard and your ultimate hypocrisy are the true reasons for your utmost humiliation in the world.

2

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

Companies like ratheone only care about the bottom line. They would help the Indians kill puppies if they thought they could profit from it.

3

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

As per the article, its better than the rubber bullets currently being used...

4

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

Nothing is better solution than the Indians to pull out of Kashmir. :jhanda:

5

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

Well, since thats not going to happen anytime soon I think its better to use a less painful weapon to quell the unrest than the rubber bullets currently being used.

6

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

So what's the problem?

7

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

would india ever let kashmir valley become independent..........is that the meaning of "freedom" by the way?

as it's seen by india, kashmir valley is a part of india, would a country ever let itself break up like like that? for 60 years it's seen this land mass as a part of the whole.

revenge for bangladesh? if that's the case then people won't move past that ego blow until somehow india lets go of the kashmir valley.....the other parts of j&k can't see the whole mass of j&k broken up though

how would it be after independence, like pakistan or bangladesh? it's not like it will be an isolated island in the indian ocean away from all the suicide bombers and terrorism.

it would still border afghanistan, pakistan, china and india

8

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

Nisha. Kashmiris dont want to be Indian, and India itself never claimed to own Kashmir until relatively recently.

Its not about ego, its about human rights. Kashmiris simply dont want to be Indian, period. So let them go.

What they become upon their independence is not your business or mine.

9

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

but why is it that noone seems to understand how complicated this issue is, kashmiri muslims don't speak for all of j&k and yet you have all of the j&k population thinking in the same way, just b/c somebody is a muslim in j&k it doesn't mean they want independence or this "freedom"

I've spoken to kashmiri muslims and most of the educated ones have varying views

when i was talking with a Kashmiri Muslim in a J&K community forum he said they want freedom from all the armed officers with guns not really from India. he's an educated KM studying medicine

these are his exact words believe them or not:
"leme tel u i dnt bliev on these leaders whateva they do.............i blieve n most of educated kashmiris also if indian army is posted on borders n not in cities n towns............if afspa is revoked...............n if v peopl r treatd as indians no bdy will protest.............rest the role of hurriat will be restrictd to few extremists in valley............an i believe tjey are there in every country as BJP in india

an one mre thng about the slogen azaadi ka matlab kya la illahaillah............u all say bjp are morons still a gud chunk of ppl support them...............n they say hindustan mai rehna hai RAM RAM padna hai

is this the slogan of secular india the largest secular nation......."

when you add in to the mix all the mega corruption in the valley and the rest of j&k, the situation isn't simple at all

10

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

i had a quite few kashmiri friends in my engineering .except for one guy who always says i love pakistan apart from this guy everyone were happy to be indian.having said that this guys parents are all well educated who are financially in good position dunno about the poor mass

btw i can say one thing they don't look any where near indian or pakistan.someone straight from europe

11

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

^^^unfortunately most indians from other parts don't know much about j&k all the different ethnic groups that make up that piece of land all the religious groups that belong to it, the gujjars, paharis, dogras, kashmiris, ladakhis,hanjis,bakerwals, dards.....so many others and all the different viewpoints that exist. all the attention is given to the teeny tiny section of the kashmir valley which is such a small piece of land.

eastern indians of mizoram, arunachal pradesh, nagaland don't look indian either whatever that means. they look totally chinese. i never understood what 'looking indian means". they have a couple movements going on there too, independence for them too

12

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

I understand this is a complicated issue, but the situation as it is is untenable.
Regardless of what the Kashmiris want, the current setup is clearly not it.
Ultimately, there is one way to settle all this.
Lets hold a referendum the way it was supposed to have been done 50 years back. Let the Kashmiris decide where they want to go. The technical aspects off such a referendum can be worked out, but the basic point here is to ascertain what the majority of Kashmiris want.

Instead of claiming to know what they want, lets actually find out in real terms.

Currently, the Indian govt does a grave disservice to these people by claiming the entire territory as Indian. Lets start by acknowledging that Kashmir does not belong to India, and then naturally progress to the real issue. What do the Kashmiri people really want and how do we help them get their.

If the majority of Kashmirs, when they shout "Freedom" dont mean independance, then this distinction will be abundantly clear when the choose to accept unity with India. and vice versa.

13

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

Med911,
it's nice how you don't bother reading my comment at all well when i say that the kashmiris make up only a small section of the total population of j&k and when i say that other ethnic groups/religious groups exist as well with varying views. and yes about the referendum, that's been discussed to annoying amounts online, by the politicians themselves on both sides, by the kashmir issue experts. nothing comes of such things b/c:

when you add in all the mega amounts of corruption that exists in the state and all the horrible events that have taken place including the fake encounter killings and some of the other corrupt actions that have taken place by all sides pakistanis and the rich kashmiri muslims of the valley included as well as the fact that the huriyat leader is on the payroll of both india and pakistan, how exactly is the situation like how it was in the 40s and also when you take into consideration all the geographical changes that have occurred on the other parts of this whole piece of land of j&k

situation is totally f-ed up. it will keep being that way just like the Israeli Palestinian situation b/c it's too complicated now

14

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

I did read everything you said Nisha. Your saying the situation is complicated. I get that, but what next? Your not offering a solution, your just stating the obvious.
Im not talking about Kashmiri ethnic group. Im talking about people who live in Kashmir, and hence are considered Kashmiri.

My point is simple. Regardless of the complexity, at the end of the day, the situation as it stands is untenable. You cannot continue with the way things are. Ultimately the solution, whatever form it takes, will have to involve taking into account the aspirations of the Kashmiri people. If that means the majority opinion is the one that is accepted, then so be it. This may be a complicated step, but not unworthy.
The technical aspects of all this can be worked out, but ultimately, it will mean everyone will have to compromise, with the oppinion of the Kashmiri majority being paramount.

The claim that its to complicated for a solution sounds like a cop out to me. Complicated situations deserve complicated negotiations, and perhaps complicated resolutions, but I hope your not saying we should simply ignore the issue.

15

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

^the state/piece of land on the indian side is called jammu and kashmir, dogras of that region would not like to be kashmiri because they are dogras that speak dogri, just like paharis like only to be called paharis not kashmiris and ladakhis are also not kashmiri. the kashmiris are only concentrated in the kashmir valley which is a tiny section of that whole piece of land.

ladakhis hate that the kashmiris of the kashmir valley are getting all the media attention and the attention from the center. if you only take what the kashmiris have to say it would be unfair to all the other ethnic groups and regions of the state/piece of land which is j&k, only giving kashmir valley independence is also something that won't be possible b/c other ethnic groups don't want to break up the state into three parts(jammu, kashmir valley, ladakh)

16

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

i know what you are talking about.jammu and ladkh occupy about 70 percent of J&K state,people tend to concentrate only on valley

btw india does have great diversity when it comes to colour.we do have mix of all colour,people blindly think south are black,central are brown northern parts are white,with eatern are mongoloid,i can show you people down south who are whiter then northern parts of india my family is example (tamil nadu is exception.but tamil iyers are whitish though ex:hema malini) it doesn't mean everyone looks same. btw i can find lot of indian looking people in eastern parts too.they are mostly mixed with tibetian tribes.

also you are wrong about eastern parts wanting freedom,generally samll majority of this people tend join maoists,what they want is communist government rather then independence

17

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

Does anyone really think India will just give up its claim on Kashmir and walk away ? This is an issue that needs to be looked at practically and not idealistically. The practical solution is to make the LoC the international border, with all the parties accepting that. Dragging this issue has only resulted in the Kashmir valley being one of the most economically backward areas of the country. No one wants to set up industries there for fear of the violence, which ultimately hurts the locals more than anyone else.

18

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

Thank you for your fair comment.

19

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

How can we fairly discuss Kashmir issue when you do not even recognize and stand behind promises made to these innocent Kashmiris by your own Prime Minister Nehru in the past?

For starters let us examine Prime Minister Nehru's multiple telegrams to Prime Minister Liaqat Ali Khan.

Exhibit no 1.

“Nehru's telegram to Liaqat Ali Khan On 27 October 1947, the day the Indian army officially invaded Kashmir. “
Jawaharlal Nehru sent the following telegram to Liaqat Ali Khan, the Prime Minister of Pakistan:

“I should like to make it clear that the question of aiding Kashmir in this emergency is not designed in
any way to influence the State to accede to India. Our view which we have repeatedly made public
is that the question of accession in any disputed territory or State must be decided in accordance
with the wishes of people and we adhere to this view”
This evidence completely negates your notion of Kashmir being “an integral Part of India”

Exhibit no 2.

Nehru's telegram to Liaqat Ali Khan On 31 October 1947, four days after the Indian army officially invaded Kashmir.
Four days later, in his telegram of 3l October, 1947, to Pakistan Prime Minister Liaqat Ali Khan, Nehru said:
" .... our assurance that we shall withdraw our troops from Kashmir as soon as peace and order are
restored and leave the decision about the future of the State to the people of the State is not merely
a pledge to your government but also to the people of Kashmir and to the world."

Exhibit no 3.

Nehru's reiteration of plebiscite pledge in a telegram to Liaqat Ali Khan of 3 November, 1947
"I wish to draw your attention to broadcast on Kashmir which l made last evening. have stated our
Government's policy and made it clear that we have no desire to impose our will on Kashmir but to
leave final decision to people of Kashmir. l further stated that we have agreed on impartial
international agency like United Nation', supervising any referendum."

Exhibit no 4.

Government of India's letter to the Security Council. In its letter of 31 December, 1947, taking the Kashmir issue to the UN, the Government of India wrote to the Security Council:

" .... But in order to avoid any possible suggestion that India had utilised the State's immediate peril
for her own political advantage, the Government of India made it clear that once the soil of the State
had been cleared of the invader and normal conditions restored, its people would be free to decide
their future by the recognised democratic method of plebiscite or referendum which, in order to
ensure complete impartiality, might be held under international auspices."

Any thoughts?

P.S. Suicide bombings, terrorism and Bangladesh are totally different ball games, so we shall discuss these topics latter along with some scorching issues in India such as bonded labor, human rights, poverty and sati, but of course to your convenience.

20

Re: Raytheon offers ‘radiation gun’ to India to quell protests in Kashmir

So now the people of the Valley must accept Indian rule for the sake of others? Why should they do that? They never choose to be Indian.

Perhaps those who want to stay with India should stay, and those that want to leave India, should be allowed to leave. Regardless of who hates who, its clear that a large group, and quite possible the majority do not want to be Indian.

Just because the other ethnic groups want something doesnt mean their opinion must be forced on the everyone.

The people of the Valley have been afflicted with murders, rape, humiliation for years. They have a right to be independent.

If we could divide the Subcontinent into parts, so can you divide Kashmir into parts. Abnd as I said, it should be up to the Kashmiris to decide their own fate. If the majority want to be independant, India cant stop them. (Except that they do, with an Army of nearly half a million.. Ironic!)