During day 2 of 2nd Test with Aussies, Ravi Satry opined there was little to choose between Kapil Dev and Ian Botham. Both had several match winning performances with bat and ball. Whereas Richard Hadlee and Imran Khan did not put up match winning performances with bat AND ball. When they bowled well, the bat lagged and versa vice.
Mr. Sastry is spot on.
Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
What has Sastri been smoking lately?
Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
LOL...Kapil Dev is not even a genuine allrounder..no one really seriously compares him to Imran khan..unless you are Indian of course. .every expert in the field would rate Imran Khan higher..in fact the only all rounder who experts consider a touch better than Imran is Gary Sobers. Kapil's record vs Imran's is pathetic. They should not be mentioned in the same sentence. It's like comparing the batting skills of Bradman and Mcgrath. What's funny is that when Indians make these claims they have no bearing on facts, they do it with a straight face. One time, they wanted to compare Wasim Akram to Zaheer Khan...lol..that just tells you how much of a "expert" and unbiased Ravi Shastri is. Imran would make any world XI as bowler alone, and they fact that he average 50+ in tests in his last five years is remarable...Plus the fastest Kapil dev could bowl is like 128kph..also he was a better leader...case closed..
Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
What has Sastri been smoking lately?
Its called "dhoni brand beeri"....Indians get a few wins and they start thinking they are demigods.
Imran is acclaimed by independent and neutral cricket critics as one if not **the **best all rounders and bowlers cricket ever produced.
Shastri or Sastry as southie sahab called him, is read sustri (from susta), often has low value comments about cricketers. E.g. in the days when Afridi was a master blaster, and once when he was hitting six after six to indian bowlers, all shastri could say was that "these are not sixes, these are skud missiles..." I mean ...he can't comment academically. Its beyond him. He is Mr. dramatic when it comes to commentating.
Re: Ravi Satry’s take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
Kapil was a genuine all-rounder but as a bowler, he was not in the same league as Imran. Imran was a genuine quick fast bowler until 1988. Post 1988 he was playing in the team mainly as a batsman. Kapil played some blistering knocks during his career but he was never as consistent with the bat as Imran (esp. last 6 years of his career from 1985-1991). Imran’s batting was crappy to begin with but he worked on it and improved greatly once he assumed the captaincy of the team. From 1982 to 1992, Imran averaged 50 with the bat and 19 with the ball in tests!!
Apart from his 1981 Ashes heroics, most of Botham’s match-winning performances were against Kerry Packer-depleted sides (same applies to Brearley’s captaincy record btw; stats inflated by wins against Packer depleted sides). Botham faded quickly as a bowler
Two articles worth reading:**
A giant among allrounders**
Stats analysis: Imran Khan | Specials | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo
**What If Imran’s Pakistan had toured the Caribbean in 1983?
**What If Imran’s Pakistan had toured the Caribbean in 1983? | Cricket Web
could not agree more with the following comment:
Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
AA is correct. Correct spelling is Shastri. But our favorite commentator does spell it w/o an h and with a y.
Sastry did not claim Kapil/Botham were better all rounders than Imran. He just said they had better all round match winning performances. Whereas Imran and Hadlee apparently couldn't put together performances with bat and ball in a match winning outcome.
By the way Kapil was a very good bowler. Before he was famous saw him in the nets. He stood out with his bowling.
Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
Anyway, even if Sastry (Shastri) is correct about match winning performances that involve BOTH bat and ball, it is a meaningless Stat. A good all rounder can bat and bowl well. Some matches he does both well. Some he bats well. Some he bowls well. More often than not, he contributes.
So to put ou a metric of match winning performances with both bat and ball is going too far. Imrans stats are far superior if I recall. Abt 22 bowling average. Probably 30 plus batting average. No contest.
To best of my recollection Packer series was 1977 to 79? I think kapil debutted after 1979. So probably didn't get too much of a go at 2nd string players.
Sastry is too bombastic fir my liking. And his pronunciation of Chennai as Chenai is embarrassing. Indian cities and names being pronounced as westerners is phony. Though I think comparing Afridi six to a scud missile was probably meant as a compliment.
Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
Imran was a drug addict, ball scuffing cheat. Imran is probably the most over rated player i have ever seen.
Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
Imran was a drug addict, ball scuffing cheat. Imran is probably the most over rated player i have ever seen.
I have watched Imran throughout his whole career and what you have said about him is absolute rubbish. No one has ever accused or proved any drug related allegation against him. During his playing days he was arrogant yes but not a druggie. Over rated, obviously you know nothing about cricket.
Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
Anyway, even if Sastry (Shastri) is correct about match winning performances that involve BOTH bat and ball, it is a meaningless Stat. A good all rounder can bat and bowl well. Some matches he does both well. Some he bats well. Some he bowls well. More often than not, he contributes.
So to put ou a metric of match winning performances with both bat and ball is going too far. Imrans stats are far superior if I recall. Abt 22 bowling average. Probably 30 plus batting average. No contest.
To best of my recollection Packer series was 1977 to 79? I think kapil debutted after 1979. So probably didn't get too much of a go at 2nd string players.
Sastry is too bombastic fir my liking. And his pronunciation of Chennai as Chenai is embarrassing. Indian cities and names being pronounced as westerners is phony. Though I think comparing Afridi six to a scud missile was probably meant as a compliment.
Whatever he meant, my point was that his vocab is a bit limited when it comes to expressing something astonishing or surprising being played out. Some one more academic or with a quality vocabulary bank, may have used a better analogy. It shows his taste in language.
Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
Anyway, even if Sastry (Shastri) is correct about match winning performances that involve BOTH bat and ball, it is a meaningless Stat. A good all rounder can bat and bowl well. Some matches he does both well. Some he bats well. Some he bowls well. More often than not, he contributes.
So to put ou a metric of match winning performances with both bat and ball is going too far. Imrans stats are far superior if I recall. Abt 22 bowling average. Probably 30 plus batting average. No contest.
To best of my recollection Packer series was 1977 to 79? I think kapil debutted after 1979. So probably didn't get too much of a go at 2nd string players.
Sastry is too bombastic fir my liking. And his pronunciation of Chennai as Chenai is embarrassing. Indian cities and names being pronounced as westerners is phony. Though I think comparing Afridi six to a scud missile was probably meant as a compliment.
**Battingwise **there's little between Imran (Ave: 37.69), Botham (33.54) and Kapil (31.05), Imran was just more consistent. Hadlee was an inferior batsman (27.16)
**Bowlingwise **Hadlee (Ave: 22.29) > Imran (22.81) > Kapil (29.64)=Botham (28.40). Kapil's average slightly worse but Botham played most of his cricket on helpful (seaming) wickets
(ps. Among the 4 all-rounders, Imran is the only one who averaged 30+ with the bat in ODIs (33.41) as well)
Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
Whatever he meant, my point was that his vocab is a bit limited when it comes to expressing something astonishing or surprising being played out. Some one more academic or with a quality vocabulary bank, may have used a better analogy. It shows his taste in language.
Agreed.
Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
I have watched Imran throughout his whole career and what you have said about him is absolute rubbish. No one has ever accused or proved any drug related allegation against him. During his playing days he was arrogant yes but not a druggie. Over rated, obviously you know nothing about cricket.
I can understand PTI supporters are delusional when it comes to imran.
Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
I can understand PTI supporters are delusional when it comes to imran.
is that the best you can say. No need to argue any further. I am not even a PTI supporter, but your lack of cricket knowledge is obvious. Keep dreaming.
Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
I did a google search 2 days ago. Except for one guy who provided no evidence, there is no sign of Imran doing drugs. Not good to defame anyone without an iota of evidence. Also need to keep politics out of sports. (Other than Indo-Pak occassional verbal maar Peeth of course).
Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
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Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
I did a google search 2 days ago. Except for one guy who provided no evidence, there is no sign of Imran doing drugs. Not good to defame anyone without an iota of evidence. Also need to keep politics out of sports. (Other than Indo-Pak occassional verbal maar Peeth of course).
Lol you searched on google. :))) There are lots of secrets which google will never tell you.
Re: Ravi Satry’s take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
But you have to agree that Imran had two phases in his career. When he was a bowler he was a lousy batsman, more like Hadlee or even worst. Post 1988 he became good batsman but by then very little of Imran the bowler was left. Frankly speaking until 1988 anyone would have said Imran was a poor batsman than Kapil and Botham. So Shastri is right in what he said. I am not saying they were better all rounders that Imran but there are fewer instances of Imran contributing with both bat and ball in same game. I am not saying this yardstick is important but bases on this yardstick he is right. In my mind Sobers, Imran and Kallis make the top three all rounders of all time.
Re: Ravi Satry’s take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
^ slight correction: Imran was a good enough batsman in the early 80s & by 1985/6 a very dependable late middle order batsman.
[TABLE=“class: StoryengineTable”]
[TR=“class: head”]
Period
Tests
Runs
Average
100s/ 50s
Wickets
Average
5WI/ 10WM
[/TR]
Till Dec 1979
25
832
22.48
0/ 1
98
31.88
5/ 1
Jan 1980 to Dec 1988
48
2028
39.76
4/ 10
236
17.77
18/ 5
Jan 1989 onwards
15
947
72.84
2/ 7
28
33.53
0/ 0
Overall
88
3807
37.69
6/ 18
362
22.81
23/ 6
Post 1988 he was playing mainly as a batsman and captain. His pace had dropped and Wasim, Waqar & Aqib had arrived on the scene. Imran hardly bowled much during his last 15 odd tests.
Sobers and Kallis are the best batting all-rounders & Imran arguably the best bowling all-rounder. Sobers hardly ever won a test match with his bowling; bowling average of 34 is pretty ordinary. imo Kallis is a better bowler than Sobers but the latter perhaps a better (certainly a more dominant) batsman
Other genuine bowling all-rounders are Shaun Pollock & Keith Miller. **Pollock **is very underrated for some reason
Best allrounders in Tests (Qual: 3000 runs and 200 wkts)
[TABLE=“class: StoryengineTable”]
[TR=“class: head”]
Player
Tests
Runs
Average
100s
Wickets
Average
5WI
Diff in ave
[/TR]
Garry Sobers
Jacques Kallis
93
162
8032
13128
57.78
56.10
26
44
235
288
34.03
32.43
6
5
23.75
23.67
Imran Khan
88
3807
37.69
6
362
22.81
23
14.88
Shaun Pollock
108
3781
32.31
2
421
23.11
16
9.20
Ian Botham
102
5200
33.54
14
383
28.40
27
5.14
Richard Hadlee
86
3124
27.16
2
431
22.29
36
4.87
Chris Cairns
62
3320
33.53
5
218
29.40
13
4.13
Kapil Dev
131
5248
31.05
8
434
29.64
23
1.41
Keith Miller (Australia’s greatest all-rounder)
Keith Miller | Australia Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo
Re: Ravi Satry's take on Kapil/Botham and Imran
No wonder I don't have too many recollections of Imran doing well. Stopped following cricket in 82. Looks like his best years came after that.