What does the verse above have to do with Stu's question. No is asking how men and women are viewed in the eyes of god. I hope allah views retards the same as he views homosexual mensa members. The question was around intelligence.
thanks,
CH
CH let me clarify that "Qur'anic Islam" doesn't have such ridiculous notions. it's mostly post Qur'anic literature that provides you such entertainment.
By virtue of being "more" intelligent, one does not automatically become superior to anyone else.
Intelligence is the wrong criteria being utilized in this discussion (IMHO). It's righteousness and piety that make one superior in the sight of Allah. Not intelligence (which doesn't automatically belong to one gender anyways).
O mankind! We created you from a<<
Is the word WE added due to translation? Is not there only one creator? or does he has helpers he used to create us?
Nadia, Fadi has asserted with references precisely about the lower intelligence and inferior status of women compared to men as by Allah's messanger. Instead of giving general quotes about how Quran treats all humans the same(which we already know very well) why don't you as a liberated muslim female refute his assertions and prove him wrong?
"Does Islam teach that women are less intelligent? Quite the opposite, Stu. In Islam i have finally discovered my liberation."
I'm sorry Nadia, but that politician-like dodge literally reeks of rationalization. Can you not see that? Again, I don't mean to belittle anyones beliefs, but (as I said before) let's call a spade a spade.
"We" is just the formalities. Queen English
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChannMahi: *
O mankind! We created you from a<<
Is the word WE added due to translation? Is not there only one creator? or does he has helpers he used to create us?
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChannMahi: *
Nadia, Fadi has asserted with references precisely about the lower intelligence and inferior status of women compared to men as by Allah's messanger. Instead of giving general quotes about how Quran treats all humans the same(which we already know very well) why don't you as a liberated muslim female refute his assertions and prove him wrong?
[/QUOTE]
ChannMahi, i think i have already done that. Anyways be that as it may, where in Fadi's posts do you see specific quotes from the Quran that state women are inferior to men? In the entirety of his original post in this thread, not a single verse from the Quran has been quoted. Please do point out to me what i should be responding to, as no tangible evidence for the inferiority of women, based upon the Quran, has as yet been provided by him.
Stu, Call it what you may. Did you happen to read Badawi's article? Any specific thoughts regarding that...? For my benefit, please explain how exactly i have undertaken a "politician-like dodge" so that i can avoid a repeat of that in this thread.
Nadia,
I think it is the intelligence comparison that this thread addresses and also is the question posed by Stu. Let's take it for granted that Islam does not say women are "inferior". Does it teach that they are less intelligent?
Thanks for a direct reply Seminole.
*Does it teach that they are less intelligent? *
No.
Does that answer your query? Can i put this question towards the originator of this thread, Fadi Ali; i request him to provide a verse, from the Quran (i know he will do this, manifestly with the appropriate reference chapter and verse), that specifically states that 'women are less intelligent than men'. Granted, a very simple request, but perhaps essential for laying down a foundation upon which to discuss this issue. If, in fact, Allah has Stated in the Quran that men are more intelligent than women, then we can proceed the discussion from there.
A Quranic ayat, stating this explicitly, will be much appreciated.
Thank you, Nadia. Your intelligence alone would disprove that theory anyway.
Women are no less intelligent then men, that is not Islam, both sexes have defined roles and different roles, but no less equal. Women are as able as men.
But that kafirs dare question the deen of Allah and our master makes me burn with anger.
Does the koran say anything about whether one is more or less intelligent at all?
Mo: hahahahahah...you crack me up son!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Thank you, Nadia. Your intelligence alone would disprove that theory anyway.
[/QUOTE]
Appreciated.
Thank you, Seminole:~)
>>...both sexes have defined roles and different roles, but no less equal.
Mo Best, i think i agree with your statement (if i am interpreting it correctly, not certain if my interpretation parallels how it was originally intended, but personally i agree with it as how i interpret it).
i might add that, i personally believe, according to Islam a man and a woman are never to be perceived of as in competition with each other, so it's not females versus guys. In a marriage between a man and a woman, for example - each partner's unique, individual aspects should not compete, but rather complement, the other partner. So it's not a question of who is more intelligent, and who isn't, who's better at performing a particular mental task and who isn't... personally speaking, i don't agree that that is what Islam advocates.
And i admit i'm slightly rambling in this thread:~/ But does the above make sense?
(...And, please, waiting for a direct Quranic quote. Muchas gracias in advance).
Nadia, The orginator of this thread went in details telling the stories and hadith but you are right no quote from Quran....like Stu, I was pushing you to challenge him exactly like you have done in last couple of posts...the fact that you did not challenge him in the beginning gave the impression that you might be un-willingly giving nod to his hotch potch stories. Only problem with that is that people believe in those hotch potch sotries with which they agree and discard the others.
Nadia-
I asked: Does Islam teach that women are less intelligent?
You answered: In Islam i have finally discovered my liberation.
My explanation for your benefit as requested: That's called a dodge because I clearly did not ask when and/or if you discovered your liberation.
The article you provided was nice, but I don't belive it is a representation of Islamic teachings today.
Chal,
Buddy why do I crack you up?
I know, I know the last bit of my post is emotional, but for some reason I go thru patches of strong belief and patches of weaker iman, I am not sure what it is.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mo_best: *
Chal,
Buddy why do I crack you up?
I know, I know the last bit of my post is emotional, but for some reason I go thru patches of strong belief and patches of weaker iman, I am not sure what it is.
[/QUOTE]
maybe it has to do with the time of the month.
lot of women wil protest following
From Rigveda] Stridharma regulates the rights and obligations of married
women, who even in traditional, patriarchal Hindu India were not simply
slaves of men. "Manu has some flattering remarks about the mother being
the goddess of the house and the gods showering happiness on the house
where the woman is honored." On the other hand, Manu also warns men
against woman, the perpetual temptress (Rigveda VIII, 68), and decress that
she should never be independent. "In childhood a female must be subject
to her father, in youth to her husband, when her lord(?!) is dead to her
sons. Though destitute of virtue, seeking pleasure or devoid of good
qualities, a husband must be constantly worshipped as a god by a faithful
wife."
koran says
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
[4.35] And if you fear a breach between the two, then appoint judge from his people and a judge from her people; if they both desire agreement, Allah will effect harmony between them, surely Allah is Knowing, Aware.
ChannMahi, alright your position made sense. i understand it now.
That's called a dodge because I clearly did not ask when and/or if you discovered your liberation.
Stu, No, you did not, you are right.
What about the rest of my post, the rest of my explanations? How have they dodged the issue?
The article you provided was nice, but I don't belive it is a representation of Islamic teachings today.
Forget about what Islamic teachings are today, or yesterday or hundreds of years ago. He is talking about Islam itself, not how it's interpreted over time periods. If we are going to discuss how differently that article's explanation differs from reality - that's a whole other, but no less worthy, thread. In this thread we are talking about whether or not there is a basis for this argument of the alleged relationship between gender and intelligence, in Islamic principles. In the Quran. It's not about whether or not those teachings are in application in today's Muslim societies or families. Manifestly they are NOT.
IMHO that article provides an articulate, well-referenced explanation of this issue. Any precise thoughts on Jamal Badawi's conclusions?