Rape

[PyariCgudia]

I’m sorry, this might already have been posted.

But if a woman is raped, and she points to the person who did the crime…does there need to be 4 witnesses for her side of the story to be accepted and for the criminal to be locked away (or stoned or whatever the punishment is)?

Were there rape cases during the time of the Prophet and how did he handle them?

[Khatmal]

Re: Rape

yes offcoarse witnesses are needed

[Wise_One]

Re: Rape

i would like to know that too.

[armughal]

Re: Rape

this issue has been confusing for me as well…
but the thing is that without a wtiness (and in absence of the modern medical advances), how cud u be sure that the woman is not just simply lying…

or maybe the 4 witnesses cud be testifying that the woman indeed is of good character and the man she is pointing at is indeed of such a bad character that he cud have carried out such an act…
that still wud be very doubtful…

[Prelude]

Re: Rape

armughal i thought atleast you'd know better about this. The four witnesses are required when a man and a woman are accused of adultery i.e. consensual sex.

For rape i.e. forced sex however, a woman's statement alone is sufficient. And that is one of the reasons why men are advised not to flirt or whatever with women because in Islam a woman has enough power that if she wants to screw you over (for example accuse you of raping her) she very well can without requiring proof.

Now its a different story how many so called muslim states decide to implement that law.

[armughal]

Re: Rape

^
so if a woman has a grudge against me, she can cimply claim that i raped her and thats it for me???

[Prelude]

Re: Rape

Sorry this post is a bit long but if youre looking for answers, read on.

Okay i was a bit harsh when i said a woman wouldnt need proof. What she doesnt need to do however is provide four witnesses. Her complaint is to be entertained and investigation at the highest level to be carried out before a verdict is passed out. And once proven guilty, the rapist will be handed his punishment and it involves physical punishment. There is no bail. A rapist cannot buy his way out of this.

I just finished reading this exhaustive article and if someone who really really really wants all his/her rape questions answered then this article answers them all in extreme detail: http://www.crescentlife.com/articles/social%20issues/rape_laws.htm

It basically outlines Islamic laws on this matter, and how our male dominated Pakistani society has twisted and turned these laws to further oppress women and empower tiny willied men.

For those who dont want to bother reading it, heres a quick summary.

1. Theres primarily two forms of punishable sexual acts. Zina and Hiraba.

2. Zina means adultery i.e. consensual sex between a man and a woman.

3. Hiraba is a wider term which means taking of something by force, be it land, belongings etc etc.. or even a woman’s chastity.. without the owner’s/woman’s consent.

4. Zina is a sin committed against Allah. Those who commit Zina, Allah will take care of them Himself. Therefore it is not entirely necessary to punish Zina committed in privacy. If a man and woman feel like gettin it on in private and no one finds out about it.. well worry not cuz Allah is watching them and He will punish them accordingly.

5. The only way Zina can be punished is when four people (MEN OR WOMEN regardless) publicly testify that yes mr so and so and ms so and so did indeed commit Zina.

6. The 1 man = 2 females theory is total bullcrap. It has been constantly repeated and emphasized in the Quran that Man and Woman are equal. An excerpt from the article further explains:

Bearing Witness: Exclusively Male Testimony. We have reviewed the strict Qur’anic quadruple testimony standard of proof for zina cases, and Islamic evidence law regarding the nature of the testimony requiring upright, sane witnesses, and testimony obtained without violation of privacy.48 The Zina Ordinance of Pakistan, however, adds a limitation on the admissibility of evidence which we have not yet addressed: the witnesses must all be men.49 That is, the standard of proof in the Zina Ordinance for zina or zina-bil-jabr is either confession or testimony by “at least four Muslim adult male witnesses” (P.L.D. 1979, 183; Bokhary 1979, 182; Major Acts 1992, 12).

However, the Qur’anic zina verse setting forth the original four-witness requirement is not exclusive to men.50 This verse refers to these four witnesses with the Arabic masculine plural, “shuhada” (“witnesses”), which grammatically includes both men and women, unless otherwise indicated.51 The inclusion of the word “male” in the Zina Ordinance thus prompts the question: was this interpretation taken from Islamic law or is it a Pakistani cultural gloss on the rule?

6. The idea here is that if you want to commit Zina, fine go ahead but dont do it in public (which is the only way 4 witnesses can be produced). Keep the filth out of public. Go do it in private and Allah will see to it you get your punishment.

the rationale for the strict evidentiary requirements for zina is an affirmance and protection of both female and male honor: unlawful sexual intercourse will be prosecuted by the state only when it is publicly indecent. Within the privacy of one’s home, the immorality of the act is something left between the individual and God.

7. Now, Rape i.e. Hiraba.

hiraba does not require four witnesses to prove the offense, unlike zina. Circumstantial evidence and expert testimony, then, presumably form the evidence used to prosecute such crimes. In addition to eyewitness testimony, medical data and expert testimony

SO, people please stop confusing rape and consensual sex. Please please. Thankyou.

[gupguppy]

Re: Rape

something i wrote in another thread last April...

"... as for rape... it all depends on whether you view rape in the same category as other sexual acts. It certainly differs from adultery and fornication in that the element of 'consent' is lacking. Various scholars have therefore placed rape in the category of crimes that are committed by one or more people causing public disruption, forcibly taking property or money etc. The rules for convinction will therefore be different and historically i believe different rules have been known to have been applied..."

[Prelude]

Re: Rape

Thankyou gupguppy.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: Rape

I heard a different version from someone a while back, though I can't recall what evidence he produced. He said that 4 witnesses is requires for a hudd punishment for rape - ie execution of the rapist.

An Islamic court could find a man guilty of rape without 4 witnesses to the act, but it then would not have the authority to order his execution and would be limited to other forms of punishment ie imprisonment, lashings, etc.

The taking of a human life is so serious that even for a crime such as rape, it could only be done if there was not only enough evidence to prove it was done, but also reliable witnesses to the act.

[Prelude]

Re: Rape

Maddy, no way is the 4 witnesses deal related to prosecution of rape. The 4 witness thing is for consensual sex only. Rape is dealt in an entirely different manner.

[gupguppy]

Re: Rape

@mAd_ScIeNtIsT

The taking of a human life is so serious that even for a crime such as rape, it could only be done if there was not only enough evidence to prove it was done, but also reliable witnesses to the act.

but you are saying there is already “enough evidence to prove it was done” even without the witnesses… the case is already proven surely… what additional value do the witnesses bring?

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: Rape

@gupguppy

but you are saying there is already “enough evidence to prove it was done” even without the witnesses… the case is already proven surely… what additional value do the witnesses bring?

True that . Like I said, this was an argument someone else gave.

Searching through islamonline.net, my usual source fo Fatwas, I encountered the following:

http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=117700

If a person makes an allegation of adultery against another person (male or female) he or she must produce four witnesses to support such an allegation; otherwise, he or she is guilty of slandering, which is a grave offense in Islam, for we are not to tarnish the honor of anyone.

A woman who has been raped cannot be asked to produce witnesses; her claim shall be accepted unless there are tangible grounds to prove otherwise. To insist that she provide witnesses is akin to inflicting further pain on her. If anyone refutes her claim of innocence, the onus is on him to provide evidence, and she may simply deny the claim by making a solemn oath, thus clearing herself in public. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “The onus to provide evidence falls on the one who makes a claim, and the one who denies (the same) can absolve himself or herself by making a solemn oath to the contrary.”

[leena]

Re: Rape

god is that really truth you know some of yours may get pissed with me yeh but you see i really aint botherd but look at this way you know even if theres no witness not even one let alone 4 so what happens then … but what im saying is that even if the rapist isnt found guilty or says hes inocence then i say let him rot in hell ..ooopss he may already will …

okay another observation is that i was thinking right, and i thought if som1 says "rape " people always think thats its a women…so i was wondering is there a case where a man has been assaulted by a women in a sexual way …that one of the thing i havent heard …have you guys?

[Antumul_alona]

Re: Rape

AOA WRWB,
I originally posted this at GupShup > Arts & Culture > Society, Culture & Literature > Politics of Rape in Pakistan.
But I don’t mind sharing it here as well.

I guess the issue gets confusing because of how the paki law works. Here are the islamic injunctions for rape and subsequent allegations for the rapist, also accusation on a chaste woman..or today man as well.

1. No witnesses are required for the woman claiming rape against her from an alleged offender. She is will be considered a victim untill proven to be a liar. Normal methods of providing proof (DNA testing as well) as prevailant at the time will be used to prove/disprove her claim.
2. A pious woman being alleged as a fornicator must be subjected to 4 witnesses from the alleging party to prove she is a fornicator/adultress.
   The paki law it seems like that is messed up because it is using the wrong injunction in the rape cases. May Allah have mercy on those who came up with this twist as they have put the whole nation under oppression and the image of islam in shambles…
   See below for more explanation.

(ii) The Shari‘ah has not devised any punishment for the victim. She deserves all sympathies and will be dealt as justice demands. The Holy Qur’an requires four witnesses in two specific cases only: When someone alleges that a pious person is guilty of fornication or to establish that some lady is a prostitute. As Javed Ahmad (His research has been published in detail in the Sep2002 issue of the monthly-renaissance journal."]http://monthly-renaissance.com/septfeart2y2.html](http://monthly-renaissance.com/septfeart2y2.html)) Ghamidi has pointed out in his referred to research, apart from the two cases described above, Islam does not prescribe the need of four witnesses to prove a crime. A crime can be proven through all the means that are available to us including the ones which today science has made possible for us. So when a raped woman approaches the court for justice she will be dealt with as a victim. She will be provided with protection and moral and legal support. Obviously, the basic purpose is to punish the guilty not the innocent victim herself.
(iii) according to some jurists if a rape victim cannot prove her allegation, then she will be punished for qadhf. As stated in (ii), Islamic religious sources have not prescribed any punishment for the victim. It is only the understanding of some of the jurists.

WAllahu Alam

[OMG]

Re: Rape

*Capital punishment for rapist
*

The Islamic shariah prescribes capital punishment for a convicted rapist. The non-Muslim may be horrified at such a stringent punishment in this age. Many accuse Islam of being ruthless and barbaric. I have asked a common question to hundreds of non-Muslim men. Suppose God-forbid, some one rapes your wife, your mother or your sister and you are made the judge. The rapist is brought in front of you. What punishment would you give him? All of them said, "we would put him to death." Some went to the extent of saying, "we would torture him to death", If your wife or your mother is raped you want the rapist to be put to death. But if someone else’s wife or mother is raped, capital punishment is a barbaric law. Why the double standards?

** U.S.A. has one of the highest rate of Rape**

The United States of America is supposed to be one of the most advanced countries of the world. An F.B.I report in the year 1990 says that 1,02,555 cases of rape were reported. It further says that only 16% of the cases of rapes are reported. Thus, in order to know the actual number of rapes that took place in 1990, the reported figure should be multiplied by 6.25. We get a total of 6,40,968 rape cases that took place in the year 1990. If the total is divided by 365 the number of days in a year, we get an average of 1,756 rape incidents everyday.

Later another report said that an average of 1900 cases of rape are committed in U.S.A every day. According to National Crime Victimization Survey Bureau of Justice Statistics (U. S. Dept. of Justice) in 1996 alone 3,07,000 cases of rape were reported. Only 31% of the actual cases of rape were reported. Thus, 3,07,000 X 3.226 = 9,90,322 rapes took place in 1996. That is, an average of 2,713 cases of rape took place everyday in America in 1996. Every 32 seconds one rape is taking place in America. Maybe American rapists got bolder. The FBI report of 1990 continues and says that out of the rape cases that were reported only 10% of the rapist were arrested, that is only 1.6% of the actual rapes committed. Out of those arrested, 50% were let free before the trial. This would mean that only 0.8% of the rapists faced a trial. In other words if a person commits 125 rapes the chances that he will get a punishment for rape is only once. Many would consider this a good gamble. And the report says that of those people who faced trial 50% received sentences of less than a year’s imprisonment though the American law says rape carries a seven year sentence of imprisonment. For a rapist, the judge is lenient to first time offenders. Imagine a person commits 125 rapes and the chances of being convicted is only once, and 50% of the time the judge will grant leniency and give a sentence of less than a year!

Results achieved when Islamic Shariah Implemented
Suppose the Islamic shariah is implemented in America. Whenever a man looks at a woman and if any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he lowers his gaze. Every woman wears the Islamic Hijaab, that is the complete body is covered except the face and the hands upto the wrists. After this if any man commits rape, he gets capital punishment. The question is, will the rate of rape in America increase, will it remain the same or will it decrease? Naturally it will decrease. Islamic Shariah gets results.

[Antumul_alona]

Re: Rape

@OMG

Capital punishment for rapist

The Islamic shariah prescribes capital punishment for a convicted rapist. The non-Muslim may be horrified at such a stringent punishment in this age. Many accuse Islam of being ruthless and barbaric. I have asked a common question to hundreds of non-Muslim men. Suppose God-forbid, some one rapes your wife, your mother or your sister and you are made the judge. The rapist is brought in front of you. What punishment would you give him? All of them said, “we would put him to death.” Some went to the extent of saying, “we would torture him to death”, If your wife or your mother is raped you want the rapist to be put to death. But if someone else’s wife or mother is raped, capital punishment is a barbaric law. Why the double standards?

U.S.A. has one of the highest rate of Rape

The United States of America is supposed to be one of the most advanced countries of the world. An F.B.I report in the year 1990 says that 1,02,555 cases of rape were reported. It further says that only 16% of the cases of rapes are reported. Thus, in order to know the actual number of rapes that took place in 1990, the reported figure should be multiplied by 6.25. We get a total of 6,40,968 rape cases that took place in the year 1990. If the total is divided by 365 the number of days in a year, we get an average of 1,756 rape incidents everyday.

Later another report said that an average of 1900 cases of rape are committed in U.S.A every day. According to National Crime Victimization Survey Bureau of Justice Statistics (U. S. Dept. of Justice) in 1996 alone 3,07,000 cases of rape were reported. Only 31% of the actual cases of rape were reported. Thus, 3,07,000 X 3.226 = 9,90,322 rapes took place in 1996. That is, an average of 2,713 cases of rape took place everyday in America in 1996. Every 32 seconds one rape is taking place in America. Maybe American rapists got bolder. The FBI report of 1990 continues and says that out of the rape cases that were reported only 10% of the rapist were arrested, that is only 1.6% of the actual rapes committed. Out of those arrested, 50% were let free before the trial. This would mean that only 0.8% of the rapists faced a trial. In other words if a person commits 125 rapes the chances that he will get a punishment for rape is only once. Many would consider this a good gamble. And the report says that of those people who faced trial 50% received sentences of less than a year’s imprisonment though the American law says rape carries a seven year sentence of imprisonment. For a rapist, the judge is lenient to first time offenders. Imagine a person commits 125 rapes and the chances of being convicted is only once, and 50% of the time the judge will grant leniency and give a sentence of less than a year!

Results achieved when Islamic Shariah Implemented
Suppose the Islamic shariah is implemented in America. Whenever a man looks at a woman and if any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he lowers his gaze. Every woman wears the Islamic Hijaab, that is the complete body is covered except the face and the hands upto the wrists. After this if any man commits rape, he gets capital punishment. The question is, will the rate of rape in America increase, will it remain the same or will it decrease? Naturally it will decrease. Islamic Shariah gets results.

Yes. Also 1 in every 6 children are solicited for sex on the web over here. The whole society is obsessed with illegal sex/rape.. There are sites that are just for freelance sex… women are assaulted and date rape is the most common form of rape. Girls/women don’t find the courage to turn their dates in to the law. And they complain about islam…
Allah we thank you for making us muslim when we did not even ask for it…

[minah_pa]

Re: Rape

Oh for crying out loud, this is the second time OMG has posted this, she also posted verbatim in another thread about a woman marrying a rapist. Still waiting to see if she has an actual opinion of her own.

So, if it is so that a woman's word is all that is needed, why is it that the woman who was gang raped by jirga decision is having such a hard time proving it and getting justice? It seems as though there is a HUGE gap between what everyone says is the way and the reality.

[Faisal]

Re: Rape

@minah_pa

So, if it is so that a woman’s word is all that is needed, why is it that the woman who was gang raped by jirga decision is having such a hard time proving it and getting justice?

Because the “jirga” in this case is comprised of a bunch of morons (judging by their decisions) who need to get their heads examined. And if anyone considers this particular “jirga” as a representative of Islamic thought and rules, they need to get over the misconception really quickly.

[Muslim_Queen]

Re: Rape

PCG witnesses are necessary for validity etc so some silly fool doesnt mess around for fun. However, if a woman is sure who he was , even from an Islamic point of view I am not sure whether a certain number of witnesses are a "must".

I'll see if I can get more info of such cases during the Prophet (SAW) time.