so ny you changed your mind on having nude molvies in your cult? since u can get a chittar parade for it? you change your colors so fast… kinda reminds me of the crooks from across the border.
ny, so because a liberal goes to jail for indecent exposure.... and jail is real, you have to follow the law of land.
what about stuff that there are no rules and laws and no jails for. for example, Muslims are told NOT to lie and cheat and there is also some hell time promised for those who do that.
now for a liberal like urself where do you get the motivation for speaking the truth and not cheating etc.?
I am laughing my *** off on mundyaa's remarks. Yar you telling me about contradicting myself is so hillarious...look at who is saying it.
are you claiming that anyone can wear anything that they want in a guwardwara and can NOT wear anything and he/she wont be forced to get out or shunned in a deragatory way? <<
YES VERY POSITIVELY. That's exactly what I am saying with only 3 conditions to shoe respect to the holy place as listed by me in the other thread. Cover your head, take off shoes and don't be in possesion or influence of any drugs/intoxicants.(if one misses some of these conditions and enters the Gurdwara none kills him/her. E.g. lot of people sometimes in hurry forget to cover their head and when realize half way thru the hall return back to get the rumaal to cover it. its human to err and if not intenional is not disrespectful).
I went to this most fundamentalist/pro-khalistani/anti-indian Gurdwara in the the whole World....now don't ask me where it is:)...I saw many girls in pants and jeans....and one of the ghuppoos was with me and we did not notice any one being thrown out.
Mundyaa, main thing is that you refuse to comprehend that there is a difference between letting people choose something in their personal life and forcing it on them no matter how good it is for their own good. I have no problem with having a dress code and protocol to enter a religious place be it Mosque, temple or church.....in fact there is always a formal or informal protocol to enter these places....and people knowingly or unknowingly follow it.
Covering ones head and taking of shoes to enter a Gurdawara is an act of respect but same may not be true while entering certains Churches.
As for nyahmadi doing a parade in the gurdawara(being nude, you meant)... can you do that at your work place? If they let you spend your lunch break being nude at work some day, come to the Gurdawara and I will make sure no one chheRh chhaaRh you and throw you out when you prostrate in there.
ChannMahi
ps: I answered the questions as best I could....honestly and respectfully as I promised....I am outta here.
Mundyaa, stop sounding like a broken record. You are getting very boring now. Whatever happened to stupid Mundyaa? Trust me you are not the only one who laughs at you.
Well my original point to this article was to compare the outer form of sikh ritual, (long hair, kanga, turban etc, with some of the rituals in islam, which might seem pointless to those who come here regularly and abuse our religion.
Chan says that the appearance is important to distinguish between other religions, to which I would say why do you feel the need to distinguish if it is the inner core which is important?
Still, I am not here to question sikh religion...I know a few sikhs and to some it is very important and others not so much. Same is true of muslims and hindus as well.
Now...Chan and Rani seem to think that muslims are killed for not following the religion, but I think they are jumping to conclusions. That is not the case.
Xtreme I for one don't believe for a moment that Muslims are being killed for not following their religion fundementally everywhere. I was only refuting Mundyaa's claim that such fundamentals are ok to be forced on people. I will condemn anyone who does that in any religion...unlike some of our friends who try to justify the enforcement. My references to killing or getting killed part were exaggerated to make my point. I hope ppl understand that and don't make any assumptions about it.
ChannMahi
. I was only refuting Mundyaa's claim that such fundamentals are ok to be forced on people. I will condemn anyone who does that in any religion...unlike some of our friends who try to justify the enforcement. <<<
oh please. so you condemn the Police which enforces indecent exposure laws here in US? Afterall they are enforcing these laws on liberals like you arent they?
do you condemn sikhism if it tells sikhs to do anything? what is the use of such a religion that fails to impact the lives of its followers, then? how is that different from animals who are also liberated and follow no morals, religion etc.
if you dont beleive anything should be enforced onto a human being then how do you stop people from lieing, cheating, nudity etc. How do you stop rape, murder, robbery and other acts? or you are all dependent on local Police to do that for you?
I don't know which planet you live on but on Earth, >98% of the people never commited robbery, rape and murder.
A moral or an ethic that you need to force on people with a danda is not a moral and ethic. Acceptance has to come from inside one's heart after realizing that this is the right thing to do.
e.g., you and I know that rape and robbery is bad...I am sure because of that realization with in our hearts, we will never commit these two crimes even if the whole police and fauj on earth perishes. Now that is what cleaning ones heart of all the evil means.....let us clean it of lying, cheating, stabbing,killing, hating etc etc also.
chan, you and i know it COS of our religion not because its written in police handbooks. similarly lieing, cheating, robbing, raping etc are all evil acts that are punishable in Islam. eye for an eye.... in real world and for everything else thats immoral e.g lieing, cheating, nudity etc. is promised to be punished in the hereafter.
mundyaa,
I am sure Chann knows certain things are wrong not just because his religion says it -- there are other factors, family upbringing, education etc. You on the other hand look towards your religion in all matters -- there is nothing wrong in that. But some people donot follow religion blindly....its their choice ! How does that make their religion "useless" ? For some people religion is more than just a set of rules governing what is good and what is bad. There are athiests who are very good human beings too -- who donot lie, cheat, hurt other people. Where do they get their morals from ? Or do you think that atheists are immoral people and have no conscience.
bk, do i look like an athiest to you? so why dont you ask these athiests or liberals where do they get their morals from? athiests like ny and liberals non-followers of any faith like rani etc. have no answers to these questions.
cm, you got any stats to prove that 98% of the population aren't liars theives crooks robbers etc? in any downtown city of U.S there are a lot more theives than the numbers you have come up with. once again you have not answered the question... what good is a religion that fails to impact the lives of its followers in any way?
[This message has been edited by mundyaa (edited July 21, 2000).]
... what good is a religion that fails to impact the lives of its followers in any way? <<<<
Mundyaa, that is the most sensible thing you have said in a long time. Now look around in Islamic countries and see what kind of impact Religion has on people's lives. I totally concur with your “this” particular thought.
ny, this pathetic condition is due to lack of acting upon Islamic teachings and principles. regardless of their shortfalls a country with some Islamic laws like Saudi enjoys a non-existent crime rate.
Mundayaa...You keep attacking my values, I think I have better values then you do. I respect everybody and don't look down on people who don't share my religion and trust other people to do the right thing. I think you should examine your values you will find them very shallow.
P.S. Countries are not following Islam is an excuse you come up with everytime somebody questions about the condition of Islamic countries. Can you tell me of any Islamic country that is good place for muslims and non-muslims to live in and provides equal opportunity, and treats all its citizens equally.
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 21, 2000).]
Crime can be controlled with better police and judiciary system. Singapore and many other countries have no-existent crime rate.
If someone does not follow a religion or philosophy, how do you expect him/her to be impacted by it?
chanmahi, singapore has no crime rate... but you can find a prostitute for less than 5 dollars. you got a better example?
Mundayaa...You keep attacking my values, I think I have better values then you do. I respect everybody and don't look down on people who don't share my religion and trust other people to do the right thing. I think you should examine your values you will find them very shallow.<<<<
rani, im not attacking sikhism here.... actually defending it. and the values, morals etc. it has to offer to sikhs. speaking of shallow things... dont you think its odd that you are told to cover your heads to get a separate identity yet.... have nothing that says you should cover your body as well? like cm pointed out you can have long head hair, pubic hair a turban on your head..... and walk into a guawardawara with no clothes on and no one should have any problems with it? i dont know about you but not everyone enjoys the sight of long hair especially in the wrong spots. Isnt it disrespectful to others in a guawardawara who are there and are fully covered?
Mundayaa,
What is regarded as suitable attire is dictated by the society it has no spritual value...different societies have different different dress code..what is acceptable among dwellers of amazon i sure will not be acceptable in New York. There is no right or wrong.
Society takes on the values its most members are comfortable with.....if most members are comfortable with nudity and practice it then that becomes the norm and acceptable thing to do. This doesn't make anybody good or bad it just a survival technique. The problem arises when state or a religious body interferes and imposes dress code and use it as tool to subjugate a group of human beings.
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 21, 2000).]
rani says >>what is acceptable among dwellers of amazon i sure will not be acceptable in New York<<
but the million dollar question is that:
will the society of New York accept "what is acceptable among dwellers of amazon"
or
will the society of New York "interfere and impose dress code and use it as tool to subjugate a group of human beings"
Rani,
I have been to Malaysia 2 times and found majority muslims living peacefully with minorities like Christians and Hindus.
I had a life, now I have computer and modem.
[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
Can you tell me of any Islamic country that is good place for muslims and non-muslims to live in and provides equal opportunity, and treats all its citizens equally.
[/quote]
Can you name ANY country that treats all its citizens equally?