I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH MY HINDU FRIENDS WHETHER THEY BELIEVE IT TO BE EVEN A REMOTE POSSIBILITY THAT THESE BOOKS ARE NOT REALITY-BASED BUT JUST FICTION WITH COLORFUL CHARACTERS. MOST OF THE WESTERN HISTORIANS BELEIVE THIS . EVEN IN INDIA IN THE HISTORY BOOKS IT IS WRITTEN THAT RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA WERE COMPOSED IN SOME PARTICULAR ERA . NEITHER IS IT MENTIONED THAT THESE EVENTS ACTUALLY HAPPENED NOR IS THE DATE MENTIONED . MOST PEOPLE IN THE REST OF THE WORLD DON’T BELIEVE ALL THAT IS WRITTEN BUT INDIANS HAVE A HARD TIME FACING THIS TRUTH . THEY DON’T EVEN HAVE AN OPEN DISCUSSION. WE ALSO KNOW THE AUTHORS OF THESE EPIC TALES . ITS QUITE POSSIBLE THAT THESE HISTORIC BOOKS WERE THE EQVIVALENT OF "HARRY PORTER " OF THEIR TIME . NO ARCHEALOGICAL EVIDENCE HAS EVER BEEN FOUND . THE BATTLE OF KURUKSHETRA WHICH SUPPOSEDLY KILLED MILLIONS SHOULD HAVE LEFT ATLEAST SOME EVIDENCE . NOR DO THE CHARACTORS MENTIONED IN THESE BOOKS MAKE ANY SENSE . THERE IS THIS VILLIAN RAVANA WITH 10 HEADS .HOW CAN A PERSON WITH A SINGLE NECK HAVE 10 HEADS . NOWADAYS MANY HINDUS HAVE STARTED DEFENDING THAT BY SAYING THAT HE HAD WISDOM OF 10 PERSONS! BUT IN THE BOOK ITS WRITTEN THAT HE ACTUALLY , PHYSICALLY HAD 10 HEADS. THEN THERE IS THIS CHARACTER CALLED HANUMAN WHO IS A MONKEY BUT CAN TALK . ALONG WITH HIM THERE IS AN WHOLE ARMY OF MONKEYS WHO CAN TALK (VANAR SENA).THE HINDUS SHOULD REALISE THAT THERE IS ONLY 1 SPECIES THAT CAN TALK & THAT’S HUMANS. IF THESE HALF-MONKEY HALF-HUMAN SPECIES EXSISTED THEN WHERE IS IT NOW??? NO EVIDENCE HAS BEEN FOUND.
THERE R MANY OTHER POINTS THAT COME IN MIND BUT ITS SUFFICIENT TO SAY THAT HINDUS ARE LIKE THAT AMERICAN KID WHO EVEN AFTER GROWING UP KEEPS ON BELIEVING IN THE EXSISTENCE OF SANTA CLAUS!!!
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
You are wishing for their wreath to fall on you. I have dared for this many times and always been thrown in hell from their side. 
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
i have had discussions on this. you can look at my previous posts.
Besides, some hindus do mention that 10 heads of ravana signify different natures or wisdom. I am not really sure about this. This ramayana is claimed to have taken place 1,75,000 years ago, when humans were half human and half monkey. Again this explanation is attributed to one of your quetions.
ramayana does mention the a bridge between india and sri lanka. Google adams bridge you will find pictures of that bridge which was released by NASA and they acknowledged that it is man made. After carbon-dating of those shoals in bridge, it was dated as old as 175000 years old matching the time of ramayana. For mahabharata, there is birth place of krishna still preserved in mathura. His kingdom dwarka was submerged by sea at the dawn of this yuga. Google 'remains of dwarka' you will get an answer.
Besides, Many hindus themselves dont care about whether it is fiction or not. They just take it is as words of wisdom.
My personal opinion - i dont care whether it is or not. For me, it is the spiritual or philosophical aspect of hinduism that's interesting.
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
In Ripley's Believe it or not and many other Reality shows some Indian kids were shown with 3-4 feet long tails. Doctors said it was the result of a disorder in the dorsal spinal vestige or something like that (too technical, can't remember).
About Ravana, it was said that he had 10 heads of wisdom as mentioned in Valmiki Ramayan but converted to 10 physical heads in the Tulsi Ramayan (written many centuries later for common people).
ssingh's post was very good. I believe that the Ramayana and Mahabharata did occur many centuries BC. Its just that the recording mechanism was not so good in those days.
[QUOTE]
NO ARCHEALOGICAL EVIDENCE HAS EVER BEEN FOUND
[/QUOTE]
Mahabharatas mention Gandhara of the far west from whom came the evil Shakuni. Many historians are certain that this is present day Kandahar.
Also, the city of New Delhi was called Hastinapur or Indraprastha till the Muslim invaders and the British respectively. These names are the home city of the main protagonists in the Mahabharata.
In its scope, the Mahabharata is more than simply a story of kings and princes, sages and wisemen, demons and gods; its author, Vyasa, says that one of its aims is elucidating the four goals of life: kama (pleasure), artha (wealth), dharma (duty) and moksha (liberation). The story culminates in moksha, believed by many Hindus to be the ultimate goal of human beings. Karma and dharma play an integral role in the Mahabharata.
sums it all up !!
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
Why would you even want to argue with people who worship figures they make with their own hands.
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
Besides, some hindus do mention that 10 heads of ravana signify different natures or wisdom. I am not really sure about this. This ramayana is claimed to have taken place 1,75,000 years ago, when humans were half human and half monkey. Again this explanation is attributed to one of your quetions. ramayana does mention the a bridge between india and sri lanka. Google adams bridge you will find pictures of that bridge which was released by NASA and they acknowledged that it is man made. After carbon-dating of those shoals in bridge, it was dated as old as 175000 years old matching the time of ramayana. For mahabharata, there is birth place of krishna still preserved in mathura. His kingdom dwarka was submerged by sea at the dawn of this yuga. Google 'remains of dwarka' you will get an answer.
Besides, Many hindus themselves dont care about whether it is fiction or not. They just take it is as words of wisdom.
My personal opinion - i dont care whether it is or not. For me, it is the spiritual or philosophical aspect of hinduism that's interesting.
There are many short commings in ur reply :
1: as i said its only now that hindus , after numerous discussions , started to say that 10 heads mean wisdom of 10 people , but in Ramayana it is clearly stated the presence of 10 physical heads . i have seen the serial & and remember that Rama tried to cut of his heads numerous times but the heads would keep on coming back .it was only after Ravana 's brother told Rama to hit the arrows in the Ravana's navel that he was killed . hence the saying" ghar ka bhedi lanka dhaye " so he did infact had 10 physical heads.Which could only be a work of fiction . ( remember in Harry Porter the dog guarding the chamber had 3 heads. cos its fiction)
2 : then u say that ramayana took place 1,75,000 years ago . Reallyyyyyyyy
it is the first time that i have heard this figure . before the release of the pics by nasa the figure we used to hear was around 5000 to 7000 years ago. so how come this sudden additional 1,70,000 years come from . i will tell u cos nasa said that the shoals in that "bridge " r 1,75,000 yrs old .so now hindus have started saying that ramayana is that much old. anyway there is consesus that it was written about 2500 to 3000 yrs ago . so r u trying to tell me that it was passed on to the generations for 175000 yrs before it was put on paper . do u even urself believe in this .
3 : now u r saying that 175000 yrs ago man was half-man half-monkey .yes but at that time man was not civilised , didn' speak , didn't write could not have led a social life .meaning no wife and no kingdom , no nothing nada zip.
so there's no question of waging a war across the sea to get the wife back.
besides wasn't this the time when dinosours roamed on the earth. if ramayana is as old as u say it is there should have been a mention of them.
4 : regarding Mahabharta it is mentined that it took place after the 50th generation counting from luv & kush(sons of Rama) so it should basically be around 173000 yrs ago . but the remains of dwarka were about 5000 yrs old.that is the diff of 168000 yrs or about 8000 generations. r u kidding me!!!!!
5: if the remains of london are digged after some thousans of years it doesn't mean that harry porter is real.if u write a novel about a character living in NY it doesn't mean that since NY is real the character must also be real.
6 : and i don't get what spiritual or philosphical aspect can u get from either tale(except GITA ).in ramayana its a story of a prince, he gets married ,has to go to jungles for 14 yrs , wife gets kidnapped by Gabber singh OOPS (ravana)
assembles an army of monkeys , goes to sri lanka ,defeats the villian ,comes back home .all's well that ends well.
the other one is even worse .Teaching u to get what's yours at any cost even if u have to kill ur brothers( 100 of them)
finally if u say that majority of indians don't care if its fictional or not ,i'll interept that as some indians do know that it is fictinal . then, would u rest ur case of building the Rama temple in Ayodhaya . since fictional character's birth place are also fictional.
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
Is it allowed in Islam to read, analyse, beleive other religions scripture ?
These may impress you and lead you away from Islam !
Why dont you understand that neither Islam is science nor Hinduism is mathmatics. Both are faiths and have elements of facts & fictions.
Jai bajrang bali ! Ya ali !! Guppion ko dikha sahi gally (rasta )!!!:D
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
^ so you are hearing this argument of approximately175000 years for the first time?.
Our scriptures mention about 4 yugas. Sat yug, treta yug, Dwapar yug and kali yug. Each have a time period of many years. pretty much of that mentioned here. Rama time is at the Treta yug. Krishna's time at the end of dwapar yug. We are in kali yug. I hope this explains. and Dinosaurs became extinct 65 million years ago.
With regard to ayodhya, the point is not whether it is fictional or not. The point made is instead of a temple which is important to hindus was replaced by a mosque, which even your quran mentions about not harming other peoples place of worship?.....whether it is fictional or not, many hindus have deep emotions attached towards anything concerning rama or krishna. My solution to ayodhya dispute is construct both temple and mosque which will satisfy everyone. that's it.
you have also mentioned about killing 100 brothers. Yes it was done for justice or as a last resort.
Let me deviate from the topic a bit, even your prophet mohemmad faught many wars to justify something, right?.
Do you know anything about hinduism?....have you read vedas?have you read upanishads? . The tone which you present gives a different impression.
When i say philosophy, it doesn't have to be about ramayana or mahabharata. Vedas and upanishads are called shruti's. Nowhere in these two scriptures, are ramayana and mahabharata mentioned. These two are highly philosophical/spiritual in nature. I hope you got it.
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
Besides, 50 th generation thing you mentioned know, i accept there could be some faults with regard to time. We can as well thrash any thing mentioned in ramayana or mahabharata. I accept it.
You know what...i have read certain aspects of quran. The conclusion i have drawn about it is its simplicity and easy to understand. If you keep that as a yardstick to judge or define hinduism then you are up for a surprise.
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
bhaayio there have been numerous threads on this topic..why not just go through them yaar rather than having a live thread again and again!!
not that mera bill aata hai lol
par it seems like a constant criticism of a number of gupistan's members' religion!!
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
Although I do not mind tough questions been asked about hinduism, I do it myself with my friends, but I remember one thread where some tough questions were been asked about Islaam and it was deleted in 1-2 days (believe me there were just very simple questions, no complicated mathematics or no dates to remember, just simple logic questions). Lets see what will happen with this one.
Besides I do not want to discuss anything with a guy like truepakistani. Go look at the jokes forums and you will find some silly jokes he made about hindus and India. I could have written counter jokes in a second, but I think my country and my religion has taught me better than that.
I am hoping truepakistani is not a result of techings of Islaam, because that would very easily explain the terrorism in the world.
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
Correction: Humans as in homo-sapiens, our species, was never half human and half monkey, we are totally unrelated to the species such as homo erectus, and so on and so forth. (Discovery Channel)
Besides it would take more than 175,000 years to evolve from half monkey/half man to fully man.
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
A war over someone's wife?
Doesnt' that remind you of "the face that launched a thousand ships?"
is there a link?
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
Besides I do not want to discuss anything with a guy like truepakistani. Go look at the jokes forums and you will find some silly jokes he made about hindus and India. I could have written counter jokes in a second, but I think my country and my religion has taught me better than that.
I am hoping truepakistani is not a result of techings of Islaam, because that would very easily explain the terrorism in the world.
What tough questions were they? I dont mind answering misintrepretations and misconceptions about Islam (open a new thread), besides the Mods r incompetent. Anyway, I'd like to know what books have the stories that truepakistani pointed out, r they vedas? or something else.
Don't bring terrorism into this, which very kafir tries to bring out to insult Islam, ever try researching Islam, Islam comes from a root word that means peace or sumthng along those lines.
I'm sure truepakistani is trying to bring people to Islam, but insulting is not an effective way of dawah.
narayan, dont kid yourself, indian forums insult muslims as well, lol, there r so many anti-islam websites out there, I dont see muslims created hate websites, at least I have not come across one.
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
The evolutionary divergence between Chimps and Humans occurred between 5 million and 7 million years ago, an estimate that improves on the previous range of 3 million to 13 million years in the past.
175000 years back we were well developed humans.
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
Don't bring terrorism into this, which very kafir tries to bring out to insult Islam, ever try researching Islam, Islam comes from a root word that means peace or sumthng along those lines.
I'm sure truepakistani is trying to bring people to Islam, but insulting is not an effective way of dawah.
narayan, dont kid yourself, indian forums insult muslims as well, lol, there r so many anti-islam websites out there, I dont see muslims created hate websites, at least I have not come across one.
Go and read the jokes that truepakistani has made up about Hindusism, you will know where he is coming from.
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
I have come across anti-hindu websites run by islamic ones.
Besides, vedas dont tell anything about ramayana or mahabharata because these were created even before the time of rama. Ramayana and mahabharata are epics. That's the only thing i can answer for the time being.
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
So they aren't hindu holy scriptures, then why follow them? Vedas r the highest scriptures in hinduism, follow them, but if you do then you'll see the prophecy of Muhammad PBUH, the person who will clear and reinterate the true message of God.
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
im confused, i will see where who is coming from? you or sum1 else?
Re: RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA :FICTION?
I have only this answer right now .....
Bhagavad geetha....the central figure is lord krishna. Bhagavad geetha is also called as cream of vedas. Since it is consice, it suitable for a comman man.
Prophecy of mohemmad is even mentioned in puranas where everything starting from rama, krishna etc is mentioned. So now tell me what should we follow?
Vedas are called shruti's. They have the highest priority even before other scriptures. Indeed, i am following vedas. I would like to be called as a vedantist than as a hindu. I also want other hindus to follow vedas. But that doesn't mean that i am averse to what others are doing.