Re: raising mothers not wives
Who is telling girls not to get educated? Most people posting on this forum come from families where girls are getting educated. Its the people living in villages and slums in Pakistan that you need to speak to.
well ignorance is bliss!! but the reality is educated men and women do discourage women from pursuing higher education!
Re: raising mothers not wives
^^^ that's right and i agree with it 100% , but whenever u see a woman not highly educated , not working / career oriented and stay-at-home mom it's not always her parents or family's fault or something imposed on her , there're woman everywhere who do it by choice , and in doing so + running household + raising kids, still giving their best to the society .......... i take such woman in high regard too.
O! absolutely! I am not by any means suggesting that stay at home mothers who CHOSE to stay at home and not study an iota beyond the basics are in any way inferior mohters then those that chose to study!
not at all! men certainly have the luxury to choose to study or not! and some infact i bet alot choose not to study! i am simply saying that we are a society that when thinking about a girls future are more likely to consider whther it will have an effect on her marriagability! and I have actually heard alot of women! speak this way! I hear parents talk about it all the time! We dont want our daughter to be so highly educated that she cant find a good man! Its like women should keep themselves from achieving thier full potential in fear that they might out do all the men! all i am saying is that is not necessary! we should encourage all women to be all that they can! like i said in a healthy socety noth men and women need to be equals. The man doesnt have to be the more powerful in the relationship!
like i said ying and yang! both need to be outstanding for a healthy society! and i think we would fear a succesful women less, and encourage women to achieve thier full potential if we were raising mothers not just wives!
Re: raising mothers not wives
i mean if u look around women really do have this horrible conundrum to live with! the women in the west are all becoming better men! and hte women in the east are discouraged from ever outdoing the man!
hence we have these patriarchal society where the masculine values dominate - i.e. the yang (male) doesnt balance the ying (female)! and look what it does, we have societies that are overly aggressive. our values are agressiveness, objectivity, detachment, being unemotional etc etc! everyone is waring and conquering and thinking apathetic! its all very male values that are running our socio-political and economic systems! and really look at these systems! all over the globe they are screwed up! now the chinese would say our shi is out of order our ying and yang are no longer balanced!
I am just saying that they are not balanced b/c our values are defined by the male yang, and not the female ying! and if we encourage our women to be more engaged in all these affairs, i.e. the socio-politicla and economic affairs then the worlds chi would be better!
i mean is men can be bread-winners and fathers and still dominate these socio-political and economic systems then so can women be child-bearers, mothers and be involved witht he world!
clearly we dont want to follow the west into modernization, clearly we need to chart our own new futures! so i say.... we need to be a society that is raising mothers, not just wives, a society that is not afraid of a women being all that she can be
Re: raising mothers not wives
What is the bloodly obsession with education...im doing a degree at a top uni so i can earn some top cash...am i learning anything...nothing i couldnt have learnt by reading a book...education is a certificate...its no indication of life skills or your ability to do anything...i go to an upper class uni and ui shudder to think what kind of mothers these spoonfed women will become...the girls who got D's at college had life skills and were significantly more intelligent than most people i meet at uni...
Being an academic doesnt mean your intelligent...it just means you want to work...Educations a sham...girls want one not to learn but cos they want to earn like us guys do...
well maybe so to you! i am using my education to make the world better! not to make tons of money! and infact women dominate the public interest sector - which means that most ppl doing goody two shoe save the world work on this planet! yup! women!!!!!! so we women are infact using our education to heel the world! not to make $$$$'s!
Re: raising mothers not wives
My discussion was actually regarding the importance of education as a general thing...if you want to go into a practical field or you want to go into work then by all means get a degree...
What im saying is that if a girls doesnt want to work a degree isnt the be all and end all in terms of education...education really is a waste of time in terms of making someone clever...fact is you be intelligent without a formal education...the only use a degree serves is if you actually want to work...if you dont want to work then its a waste of time...
Re: raising mothers not wives
Good for you if your doing something you want to do...thats a benefit that women have...there is no pressure on you to seek jobs that dont want to just cos you need to be the breadwinner...
There are plenty of jobs id do but the ones id like to dont pay enough for me to be the breadwinner thats why most men end up doing what they are supposed to do rather than what they want to do...
Re: raising mothers not wives
educated women are the back bone of men in their lives (period)
Re: raising mothers not wives
Good for you if your doing something you want to do...thats a benefit that women have...there is no pressure on you to seek jobs that dont want to just cos you need to be the breadwinner...
There are plenty of jobs id do but the ones id like to dont pay enough for me to be the breadwinner thats why most men end up doing what they are supposed to do rather than what they want to do...
yea i agree! in fact there was a study done on this! women make less mone then men! so this guy wen ton and did a study of why, and he found out that b/c women dont have the responsiblity that men do women were taking on public interest job so even though they were int eh same profession, and did the same work as men, were getting paid less!
but yea its true we measure our guys by the amount of money they make in society!
we need some sorta mans right activist to take this up though:D
Re: raising mothers not wives
My discussion was actually regarding the importance of education as a general thing...if you want to go into a practical field or you want to go into work then by all means get a degree...
What im saying is that if a girls doesnt want to work a degree isnt the be all and end all in terms of education...education really is a waste of time in terms of making someone clever...fact is you be intelligent without a formal education...the only use a degree serves is if you actually want to work...if you dont want to work then its a waste of time...
Again Naughty! its not about what you think, i am discussing social perceptions here!!!
I am taking on society and you dont get it!!!!
Re: raising mothers not wives
it depends, how supportive of a husband or a brother or a son or a father are you to women in your life, to support their working and treat them as equals in sharing the burdens of labors outside of the house in earning a livelihoods.
makes sense?
Good for you if your doing something you want to do...thats a benefit that women have...there is no pressure on you to seek jobs that dont want to just cos you need to be the breadwinner...
There are plenty of jobs id do but the ones id like to dont pay enough for me to be the breadwinner thats why most men end up doing what they are supposed to do rather than what they want to do...
Re: raising mothers not wives
it depends, how supportive of a husband or a brother or a son or a father are you to women in your life, to support their working and treat them as equals in sharing the burdens of labors outside of the house in earning a livelihoods. makes sense?
it does to me dushi...:)
Re: raising mothers not wives
Ms farwah.raza
I am sorry to say but Just like your earlier post, this one is also incoherent… Oh and badly aimed 
Level of education has no direct co-relation with women psyche … but role of a mother has.
In education quality matters, and it is scarce in Pakistan
Unless, you are talking about the situation few decades ago, you are totally wrong !
You need to update your informaiton **In urban Pakistan more girls pursue highier education, than boys… be it medical school, Universities, Law colleges etc. This is a hardcore fact. **But the sad part is that most of these highly educated women dont attain this higher education to build their careers. Instead, they do it for getting degree. Parents dont bother much as in pakistan a person used to get masters degree around the age of 22, which is pretty young. Incase of MBBS, add three years. Also those getting professional education, 30% 40% of them dont go into profession, because they land in marraige where finance matters are taken care of veru well… which is again very unfortunate for the country as a whole.
Like i said the situation is quite opposite than what you are fanticizing here.
In todays’ urban pakistan, girls get highly educated more than boys. Often it is a situation in a proposed nuptual where guy is a simple graduate and girl has a masters degree. The reason is quite simple as boys are expected to be the bread winner for family…girls have no such liabilities… So boys are forced into workforce or included into business as early as possible, unless they are very bright and very good in acadamics.
So, basically you need to do some ‘first-hand’ study of the structure of pakistanic urban society. Better arguments and discussion can take place only when you have factual knowledge, not just wild imagination 
Re: raising mothers not wives
Oh my god!!! its like u are purposefully misreading me!
Where did i once say that girls are not getting educated! When did i once say that a woman who is not highly educated makes a bad mother!!!
What I am saying is that [and i know this is fact - b/c this is based on first hand knowledge] often when women are deciding whether to pursue higher education or not, they are told well u have to get married so choose a career wisely.
i dont need a first-hand study of the structure of the pakistani study!!!
I have first hand experience! I have read articles, i have heard people talking, and maybe if u were not so defensive, you would admit that when people are discussing if girls should pursue higher education! Okay now imagine a room full of people discussing if women (in general) should pursue higher education, how many of those ppl will say well they should not b/c they have to get married. So there is no sense in them studying for the next 6-8 yrs to become doctors!
Actually i think it would be worth it to open a post that asks this very question, i have not seen one yet! but i think one should open a post that asks this very question, and lets see how ppl respond!
so anyway my point is code red, when people say women should not get educated b/c they have to get married, i am just saying re-consider! we are rasing mothers not wives!
the fact that inspite of all these cultural barriers we still are outdoing men in practically every field! well…what can i say maybe we r just better beings!
hahahah
no but seriously! in Pakistan there are more female medical students then men? really… in the US i think last year was the first year, when there were more female med students in teh country then men med students!
Re: raising mothers not wives
'the fact that inspite of all these cultural barriers we still are outdoing men in practically every field! well....what can i say maybe we r just better beings! '
I assume you were joking when you typed this...**
**
Re: raising mothers not wives
duukdukh,
you are right, they do and that is why young women who are educated must educate these women to know their right to safe and dignified lives as women as as Mothers.
whoever sees this as a threat to his or her own ignorance is but an ignorant and yes to become an alert Mother, today and always, a woman must be educated.
people only GLEEN to the independence that comes with a given woman's going to obtain her education enables her to be that way (and as a consequence become employed or able to 'raise money or revenue'.
but, people forget that all self respecting and strong helping and helpful women in the role of a Mother, and even a better half, must be on equal footing.
no one is sitting around and waiting for the next order call to be given to have a Mother render a service by handing a plate to each family member, even though she did more than she should ever do - buy it, cook the food, and then clean up the left over.
yes, mothers may do this out of love naturally for their child or the spouse, but taking advantage of a woman in the role of a Mother in not fair.
women have the right to education and there may be an even greater benefit in being educated since one is more able to be of help, at least in today's times.
dushwari
farwa , there're such narrow minded families who think that way , but the girls/ woman from such families need to rise and fight for their rights, no one could do anything for them , they need to make a diffrence by themselves
Re: raising mothers not wives
I did not blame you for either kind of statement. I am only responding to what you are saying
Maybe you are confusing higher education with ‘professional’ education
What you are saying, is perhaps true for ‘Non technical / Non professional education’ higher… For instance masters in political science, envirnmental sciences, urdu, islamiat etc. These non lucrative sort of education and parents prefer marraige over this type of education
On the other hand medical , engineering , business , telecom, CS etc are highly sought after education in pakistan. People usually encourage women of family to acquire it (if they are on merit ) even if they have to face hardship of going to far flung areas.
You must be kidding. No sane person would stop his daughter from becoming doctor if she gets admission in a medical college (which is btw, tougher than climbing K2, in Pakistan ). If he is narrow minded or jahil type then he wont let her do F.Sc. A doctor has much higher prospect of catching good match than others.
And my point is that people encourage their girls and boys to go into career oriented field of education. This type of education requires lots of dedication, caliber and hardwork. Only the cream of student get admission. So you are wrong when you say people discourage girls from attaining this kind of education. Infact it is most prestigious thing for them to show off in the family
But there is other type of education where people who dont get admission in good school… they get admisson, for getting degree. Now people gererally dont prefer to wait for their daughter to get the ‘extra education’ if they see an appropriate match in sight. Which is a right thing to do.
So I dont see your slogan ’ raising mothers not wives’ has any practical value
How does a girl with degree Masters in political science, islamiat or urdu can be a better mother ? Only if you acquired education in the field of home economics, psychology or parenting etc. then your argument holds some practical value.
Re: raising mothers not wives
Educate a man and you educate an individual -- educate a woman and you educate a family. ~ A.Cripps
Re: raising mothers not wives
code red, wild imagination is not womens’, it’s but sadly most mens’ little trivial game they play, if anything.
suffice it to say that even when men are given the factual knowledge, they just do not see it.
i agree with what you said, now a days, a less educated man may get married to a clearly more educated woman, and therefore, there is hardly ever any mental compatibility, due to complex on the man’s mind – same is true for an educated man to be married to a less educated woman for control issue’s sake.
and the marriage is but useless if, as an institutive unit within the society’s good and the bad
, a strong team of husband and wife do not know how to have and keep a family and partnership for life with contentment.
for that, both of them must focus on their careers – women nor men can be denied their right to study or work – and taking care of the house and the couple of kids, and the man himself, is technical W O R K, albeit hardly ever unacknowledged and recognized in the right ways, if at all. reassess the lopsided parallels which you dearly tried to draw above.
& of course women do become better moms, when they have their education with them – and are able to work, as women who value education and self reliance, are better students and better professionals be it law, medicine, religious scholarly work, social work or education.
Dushwari
Re: raising mothers not wives
Firstly I am talking about the US! where education is big bussiness. and if u have money or are eligible for loans you can go to school. Not necessarily a good school but u can go to school. You may not get into med school, but u can aspire and spend over $100,000 just in your undergraduate years studying mostly literature and math! then maybe u get into med school and then if u do get into med school, good possibility you may not make out of it!
in any event, so yea i figure in pakistan where getting in to med school or professional school is like winning a lottery parents probably don’t mind!
but here, where everyone can go to college, if they can afford it or are willing to take out loans, then people do think twice!
I do know ppl who in the US atleast would much rather marry their 19 yr old daughter if she has a good proposal then send her to school, or allow her to go to school, even in cases where she has been accepted to good schools. to those people who do these things (and u can call them jahil - but doesn’t make it any less true) in any event, my slogan is addressed to such ppl! Maybe u are not one of them, and its great that u have not come across other ppl like that in Pakistan.
Sometimes i think that the migrant families to the US are a lot more conservative then the families in Pakistan. I think we are a lot less progressive. in part b/c we keep the traditions we come here with. So if we migrate here in the 80’s then we keep the cultural traditions of Pakistan during the 80’s and even though everyone in Pakistan is now living and progressed into the 21st century, we are still stuck in the 80’s!
So my slogan does make sense! its not aimed at Pakistani’s in Pakistan! Its a general observationa nd response to what i see around me! bot based on any scientific studies or statistics! just personal experience!
Re: raising mothers not wives
seriously i hear ppl discussing how they should not educate thier daughters b/c guys do not like to arry very educated women!!!
thoughts ppl?:D
**Most Mothers prefer Sons over daughters, you are right Mothers need to be educated and made to realize they are the main source of discrimination against Women.......:) **
I started a new thread with this statement. You may want to comment there