Radicalization of education in Pakistan

[Med911]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

I remember what mushtaq yousafi once said ...

he said that had we shown same amount of passion in teaching our kids science that we showed in teaching them about medieval arab muslim scientists (jabir bin hayan etyc) , we would have had some real pakistani scientists by now at international level :)

kaya sahiee baat hai!

Yeah, this system they have created in Pakistan is just senseless. No education might be better then the drivel they are taught in some of these so called schools.

Best bet for a kid growing up in Pak... Invest in a computer with internet connection and rely on YouTube and Google for an education. It would be superior to what you learn in Govt schools by far.

[Med911]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

if there is one scientist our young students would feel excited about that will be dr abdus salam because he was pakistani and a noble prize winner...but hey he does not count!

oh wait, he got nobel prize because he was qadyani..western conspiracy against us i guess!

Absolutely... This is how religion hinders learning in Pakistan. Why read about Abdus Salam, he wasnt Muslim (according to them) so his accomplishments are not worthy of being taught. Its insane. As if only Muslim accomplishments are worthy of learning about. What a dishonest and myopic view of the world.

[phoenixdesi]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

Yeah, this system they have created in Pakistan is just senseless. No education might be better then the drivel they are taught in some of these so called schools.

Best bet for a kid growing up in Pak... Invest in a computer with internet connection and rely on YouTube and Google for an education. It would be superior to what you learn in Govt schools by far.

but youtube gets banned all the time as well!

koi aik masla hai

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

According to the Education Minister KPK the changes in curriculum were made in 2006, hence by MMA government of JI/JUI. And now these are the two parties jumping the most against them.

[Med911]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

but youtube gets banned all the time as well!

koi aik masla hai

Well, thats the other tragedy of Pakistan. Every avenue for learning is closed because some shortsighted beard decides that because there is ONE video that is UniSLAMIC all of it should be banned.

The right in Pakistan conspires too keep Pakistan as ignorant and uneducated as possible.

But really if a person truly wants to learn, technology is such that no ban can stop them. You can now view lectures from ivy league Universities in the US for free... I mean, its unheard off in Human history, where people have this level of access to education.

[phoenixdesi]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

According to the Education Minister KPK the changes in curriculum were made in 2006, hence by MMA government of JI/JUI. And now these are the two parties jumping the most against them.

actually that is a good point...i do remember that. Apparently JI/JUI made those changes under Musharraf influence

[psyah]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

Your Children should be taught Ayahs and their meaning by the clergy, not govt schools. Why should it be the role of a simple village teacher too impart religious education? Should he be teaching ABC, 123, or teaching the Koran?

Peace Med911

Actually this is what is causing the split in society ... To have a separate institution for religion and a separate one for worldly education is the very problem that Pakistan is witnesses king today after 50 years of exactly that ...

[psyah]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

[quote]
The Jamaat confuses culture with religion and tries to enforce its ignorance on the rest.

Take its insistence on having the greeting ‘Good morning’ removed and replaced with Assalam-o-Alaikum. If Pakistanis were Arabs, and spoke Arabic, this suggestion would have some merit. But that is not the case.

In KP, people greet in Pushto, not in Urdu or Arabic. What happened to ‘starhay mashey, khwar mashey’ or ‘pakher raghley’? Should we give up our rich cultural heritage because it does not fit the curriculum designs of the Jamaat?
[/quote]

Good Morning? Ae keri Pakistani zubaan ae?

We have been saying salaam ever since Islam came to the region ... Saying good morning is a reflection of the times when we were colonised ... Go figure ... I think the blogger has come from a line of people who wanted to keep their British masters.

What makes it worse is that his argument of Salam not being relevant for the area ... But how is saying good morning any more relevant?

[psyah]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

Well, thats the other tragedy of Pakistan. Every avenue for learning is closed because some shortsighted beard decides that because there is ONE video that is UniSLAMIC all of it should be banned.

The right in Pakistan conspires too keep Pakistan as ignorant and uneducated as possible.

But really if a person truly wants to learn, technology is such that no ban can stop them. You can now view lectures from ivy league Universities in the US for free... I mean, its unheard off in Human history, where people have this level of access to education.

With all the work arounds why complain about the education system?

There is no education system issue here ... The issue here is a desire to be like the West and resistance to the censorship ... It is simply ultra-liberalism here ... Nothing else.

[kakaballi]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

...... You should be glad there are people like me who have left fish bowl and seen the world outside it.....

Such ungrateful people!!! Pakistanis should really be thankful to people who have left the fish bowl and let us know how much it stinks.

You make a lot of sense and I agree with all you say about education in Pakistan but the way you address Pakistanis is really disrespectful.

[COLD_FIRE]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

How about teaching your children basic science, basic math and basic everything else isntead of injecting your religion where it has no place being. Teach your children Islam at home or madrassa. Teach you childrens morals yourself, dont leave it to the school. If you dont teach your children any morals, then you shouldnt be having them.

Western mindset depleted? Thats dumb considering the West is light years ahead of Musim "society" in terms of development. You can thank Western society for much of the comforts you take for granted today. Immunization anyone?

You teach the same of Abdus Salam what you would of OTHER scientists. Inspire children by telling them that he was a PAKISTANI Scientist and what he contributed to Science.

Any teaching of history would cover the BIG important societies of the world. Greeks and Romans are hugely influential, and you cannot understand the modern world without understanding how they influenced it. If you dont cover them, you arent teaching proper hisotry.

yEAH, that does make Americans less literate. And its a shame. But then again, Pakistanis have no place comparing themselves to Americans.

Teach them about muslims by all means, but dont negelect thousands of years of history prior too it and after.

Being muslim FIRST has done nothing for the betterment of Pakistan or mankind. How about teaching your children to be human first and contribute to society instead of giving them a bias myopic view on existence.

Its a shame that it takes a Pakistani to LEAVE Pakistan to see the reality of the world... You should be glad there are people like me who have left fish bowl and seen the world outside it. Its tragic that you want to limit your children by hindering their learning.

By the way, our ancestors were Hindu aswell, the nation of PAKISTAN was at one time part of a Buddhist kingdom. Thats also a part of Pakistan heritage and history. Why isnt study of that part of Pakistan's history not mandatory like Islamic studies?

I dont know what to say, have read both of ur posts and it seems somehow you are mixing politics with religion with educational system all in such a random manner it seems like no child in Pakistan has morals, or knows ABC or hell is even entitled to be called a human being.

As I have already quoted up, u dont have the clarity of argument in the first place.

**Being muslim FIRST has done nothing for the betterment of Pakistan or mankind

**There right there, lies your problem, as i said, end of discussion. Adios.

[Med911]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

With all the work arounds why complain about the education system?

There is no education system issue here ... The issue here is a desire to be like the West and resistance to the censorship ... It is simply ultra-liberalism here ... Nothing else.

Work around are for those with the means to use them and the motivation. That point is an aside.

God forbid we should be like the west, i mean I hate sanitation, clean drinking water, electricity, health care, etc etc. Lets stick to being Eastern! Should we be Chinese, Japanese? Perhaps we should emulate the Arabs. The Saudis are a great example. We should behead someone regularly and hang theit bodies for public display just like them! I dont think you people even know what it is you want. Just repeating the cliche of the "evil west" and nothing more. Remind me Psyah, where did you grow up again?

[Med911]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

I dont know what to say, have read both of ur posts and it seems somehow you are mixing politics with religion with educational system all in such a random manner it seems like no child in Pakistan has morals, or knows ABC or hell is even entitled to be called a human being.

As I have already quoted up, u dont have the clarity of argument in the first place.

**Being muslim FIRST has done nothing for the betterment of Pakistan or mankind

**There right there, lies your problem, as i said, end of discussion. Adios.

Because in Pakistan, POLITICS, Religion and education ARE all mixed. Recall it was a RELIGIOUS right wing POLITICAL PARTY objecting to to something in the EDUCTION SYLLABUS.

The point is simple. DONT mix religion with basic education. It has no business being there. That was what the JI people are doing, injecting religion into govt schools. Why they should do so is beyond me. But people think their children need to be indoctrinated with theology even as they are learning subjects tat should logically have no connection with religion.

Clarity in this case is subjective I suppose. But when we dont even agree on the basic premise of what role religion should play in a society, then I suppose any argument i make would seem unclear.

Adios indeed. If you cant debate a statement then why not shut your eyes and run away! So is the problem with Pakistan. Logic and reason are sacrificed at the alter of religiosity. Being Muslim first has meant blasphemy laws, and extremism, and injustice towards all those who dont fit the popular definition of muslim and other minorities. So what good are you referring too? The indians are taking pictures from Mars, and Paksistanis are obsessing over "Good Morning."

[Med911]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

Such ungrateful people!!! Pakistanis should really be thankful to people who have left the fish bowl and let us know how much it stinks.

You make a lot of sense and I agree with all you say about education in Pakistan but the way you address Pakistanis is really disrespectful.

Im a Pakistani. Im not some foreign agent who is being overly harsh. I take no pleasure in making such a claim, but its often the case. As I said, its a SHAME that Pakistani have to leave the country to understand the world.

That being said, When people make these claims that somehow their morals are superior to the WEST (whatever that means) then a dose of reality is certainly called for. Are you telling me i should be polite when people say that the WEST is corrupt and the Pakistani morality is something we should be proud off? The same society that turns a murderer into a hero, and takes pride in proclaiming some as Wajabul Qatal.?

And BTW, my post was in response too:
"And IF you had been living in PAKISTAN, again we would not be having this kind of discussion to begin with. Eliminating IF's and But's help shed better insight to the argument at hand. Trust me."

I think my response is appropriate. I wouldn't have used "I" in the sentence, if statement weren't in reference to ME... You should try to read things in Context.

[Med911]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

Good Morning? Ae keri Pakistani zubaan ae?

We have been saying salaam ever since Islam came to the region ... Saying good morning is a reflection of the times when we were colonised ... Go figure ... I think the blogger has come from a line of people who wanted to keep their British masters.

What makes it worse is that his argument of Salam not being relevant for the area ... But how is saying good morning any more relevant?

English, whether you like it or not, is the global lingua franka. To say otherwise would be dishonest.

And too try to supplant it is a disservice to children. So its relevant to the extent that it is important to introduce Children to ENGLISH words and phrases. starting with simple words and phrases prepares them for more complexity later on, "Good Morning Teacher" being one of them.

Also the fact that its another example of the religious right in Pakistan trying to inject religion where it really shouldnt be. You would be niave to believe that this isnt another example of JI forcing their ideology. So its not just about trying to put "English" culture on a pedestal, its about religion once again exerting its influence in places it shouldnt. But then it is Pakistan.

Beyond that, its a waste of time and resources to concern oneself over such things. You imagine how much of their resources have to go into reprinting all these books?

[kakaballi]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

.....I think my response is appropriate. I wouldn't have used "I" in the sentence, if statement weren't in reference to ME... You should try to read things in Context.

Saw the post you were responding to. My apologies for taking your comments out of context.

[psyah]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

Work around are for those with the means to use them and the motivation. That point is an aside.

God forbid we should be like the west, i mean I hate sanitation, clean drinking water, electricity, health care, etc etc. Lets stick to being Eastern! Should we be Chinese, Japanese? Perhaps we should emulate the Arabs. The Saudis are a great example. We should behead someone regularly and hang theit bodies for public display just like them! I dont think you people even know what it is you want. Just repeating the cliche of the "evil west" and nothing more. Remind me Psyah, where did you grow up again?

My brother ... Why take things out of context?

Be like the West in terms of sanitation, yes ... But where are we emulating these? We are not ... We are emulating the "good morning" and the "night clubbing" ... When I said ultra-liberal that is what I meant ... Clean drinking water, electricity, health care, etc are not examples of ultra-liberalism ... If only we followed the West in the good things ... No ... We wanna follow them in the things that fuel our nafs ... That is my contention ...

And to be strict about it sanitation, cleanliness is from Islam ... We left it and the West took it up ...

Hadith: Qala RasoolAllahi Sallalahu Alaihi Wasalamma ... Al-Islam-u Nadhzeefun, fatanadzhafu, fa innahu la yadkhulil jannata illa nazdeefun ... rawah-u-Tabarani

Islam is Clean ... So cleanse yourselves, verily none shall enter paradise except the clean. Al-Tabarani.

In addition we have tahara, we have eating with the right hand and not with left hand ... It is one of the topics in the article ... The liberalism wants to do away with it ... They want us eat with any hand we like ... So come on ... Be fair in your challenges ...

[Med911]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

My brother ... Why take things out of context?

Be like the West in terms of sanitation, yes ... But where are we emulating these? We are not ... We are emulating the "good morning" and the "night clubbing" ... When I said ultra-liberal that is what I meant ... Clean drinking water, electricity, health care, etc are not examples of ultra-liberalism ... If only we followed the West in the good things ... No ... We wanna follow them in the things that fuel our nafs ... That is my contention ...

And to be strict about it sanitation, cleanliness is from Islam ... We left it and the West took it up ...

Hadith: Qala RasoolAllahi Sallalahu Alaihi Wasalamma ... Al-Islam-u Nadhzeefun, fatanadzhafu, fa innahu la yadkhulil jannata illa nazdeefun ... rawah-u-Tabarani

Islam is Clean ... So cleanse yourselves, verily none shall enter paradise except the clean. Al-Tabarani.

In addition we have tahara, we have eating with the right hand and not with left hand ... It is one of the topics in the article ... The liberalism wants to do away with it ... They want us eat with any hand we like ... So come on ... Be fair in your challenges ...

Well the problem tends to be that people use the term "western" as blanket insult for anyone that believes there are things to be learned from Western societies.

I may not appear fair, but where in your response did you specify what parts of Western society are or are not acceptable to you ? I mean I could assume you support the good things of Western society, but then there are people among us who object to even those things.

The entire debate over what is "western" or "Islamic" etc opens up a debate we can never agree on. I mean the case of "clubbing" exemplifies to me the right to choose the way ones lives their own life. Now should my distaste for that lifestyle trump my my belief that we all have a right to choose how we live? and isnt a truly pious person the one who choose to not go clubbing because that is his own choice despite the temptation, and not one who does so because the choice is made for him by society? Agree to disagree.

Suffice it to say, Western society to me, for whatever its ills, still is worthy of emulating. I would rather deal with people "clubbing," then deal with people throwing hand grenades at school teachers because the students are wearing slacks and not Shalwar kameez (which if you hadnt heard, happened a few days ago).

One of my favorite quotes:
"I went to the West and saw Islam, but no Muslims; I returned to the East and saw Muslims, but no Islam."

Mohammad Abduh

[psyah]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

Well the problem tends to be that people use the term "western" as blanket insult for anyone that believes there are things to be learned from Western societies.

I may not appear fair, but where in your response did you specify what parts of Western society are or are not acceptable to you ? I mean I could assume you support the good things of Western society, but then there are people among us who object to even those things.

The entire debate over what is "western" or "Islamic" etc opens up a debate we can never agree on. I mean the case of "clubbing" exemplifies to me the right to choose the way ones lives their own life. Now should my distaste for that lifestyle trump my my belief that we all have a right to choose how we live? and isnt a truly pious person the one who choose to not go clubbing because that is his own choice despite the temptation, and not one who does so because the choice is made for him by society? Agree to disagree.

Suffice it to say, Western society to me, for whatever its ills, still is worthy of emulating. I would rather deal with people "clubbing," then deal with people throwing hand grenades at school teachers because the students are wearing slacks and not Shalwar kameez (which if you hadnt heard, happened a few days ago).

One of my favorite quotes: "I went to the West and saw Islam, but no Muslims; I returned to the East and saw Muslims, but no Islam."

Mohammad Abduh

There is a richness that you have not yet seen ... Hidden in clear sight ... A legacy better than anything "Western" ... And that is to follow Islam ... And that does not mean ... Following the West and it does. It mean doing as we are doing in the East, but rather returning back.

[Med911]

Re: Radicalization of education in Pakistan

There is a richness that you have not yet seen ... Hidden in clear sight ... A legacy better than anything "Western" ... And that is to follow Islam ... And that does not mean ... Following the West and it does. It mean doing as we are doing in the East, but rather returning back.

Im sure. But all things are great in moderation.

Do you think perhaps, that in their religious zeal, many Muslims simply lose the forest for the tree's ? And the beauty of Islam is thus turned onto a burden by those to shortsighted to understand that there is a more relevant truth which they either refuse to perceive or unable to...

Simply put, its not always easy to see the beauty in Islam when Muslims themselves are disfiguring it.