Studies on the image of blacks in medieval Persian literature reveal that in both Arab and Persian writings, blacks are depicted as stupid, untruthful, vicious, sexually unbridled, ugly and distorted, excessively merry, and easily affected by music or drink. Nasir al-Din Tusi (d.1274 CE), a famous Iranian philosopher, wrote: “If various kinds of men are taken and one placed after another, like the Negro from Zanzibar, in the South-most countries, the Negro does not differ from the animal in anything except the fact that his hands have been lifted from the earth, except for what God wishes. Many have seen that the ape is more capable of being trained than the Negro, and more intelligent.”
Re: Are Muslims Racists??
Al-Kisa’i writes in his chapter on Noah:
It is said that one day Noah came to his son and said, “My son, I have not slept since I boarded the ark, and now I desire to sleep my fill.” So saying, he put his head on Shem’s lap and went to sleep. Suddenly a gust of wind uncovered Noah’s genitals; Ham laughed, but Shem jumped up and covered him. When Noah awoke he said, “What was that laughter?” Shem told him what had happened, and Noah grew angry with Ham. “Do you laugh at your father’s genitals?” he said. “May God change your complexion and may your face turn black!” And that very instant his face did turn black. Turning to Shem, he said, “You covered your father: may God shield you from harm in this world and have mercy upon you in the next! May He make prophets and nobles of your progeny! May He make bondswomen and slaves of Ham’s progeny until the Day of Resurrection! May He make tyrants, kings and emperors of Japheth’s progeny!” And God knows best.
This provides the theological justification for racism in early Muslim society. It is commonly assumed that the genre of “stories of the prophets” didn’t have much of an effect on scholars and jurists. However, the famous Al-Tabari, for example, cites no less than six Prophetic traditions which seek to support this story.
Stereotyping blacks and considering them inferior creatures is quite broad-based. No one is immune from this malady, it seems. But this is the first time I have heard this story about Noah. Weird.
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*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Stereotyping blacks and considering them inferior creatures is quite broad-based. No one is immune from this malady, it seems. But this is the first time I have heard this story about Noah. Weird.
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Its in the bible too, that story... Genesis...
^ Well, there you go. Its not muslim-exclusive.
Sher, what are you talking about? I would like some examples of ("This provides the theological justification for racism in early Muslim society") since you state it so emphatically.
The "famous" At-Tabari has not written just a single book. From what I recall, 1-2 of his works explicitly state at the beginning that the stories are presented without any chain of narration, and should not be deemed authentic. So "the 6 cited prophetic stories" do not convince me.
Blank statements, with little or no proof, show a person's lack of research. Its obvious that you want to discuss racism against blacks by muslims, and the justifications provided for this. The discussion can only be carried further if you bring solid proof.
Islam has never separated human beings. The only line is between believers and non-believers. Any distinction on the basis of color were purely cultural and not based on any religious rulings.
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*Originally posted by ammarr: *
Sher, what are you talking about? I would like some examples of ("This provides the theological justification for racism in early Muslim society") since you state it so emphatically.
The "famous" At-Tabari has not written just a single book. From what I recall, 1-2 of his works explicitly state at the beginning that the stories are presented without any chain of narration, and should not be deemed authentic. So "the 6 cited prophetic stories" do not convince me.
Blank statements, with little or no proof, show a person's lack of research. Its obvious that you want to discuss racism against blacks by muslims, and the justifications provided for this. The discussion can only be carried further if you bring solid proof.
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Wow,,,, Solid Proof..... It is in many of the books written by famous Muslim scholars and surely enough there were people who respected these scholars and beleived in what they said. If you need a "solid" proof of what is written in these books by Muslim scholars is true then I would be needing a proof of what is written in Quran is true. I am sure you would say that what is in the Quran can not be questioned b'cos Quran is the word of God. Well,,, where is the "Solid" proof for that????
Re: Re: Are Muslims Racists??
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Originally posted by Sher: *
**This provides the theological justification for racism in early Muslim society. *
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"Theological" justification ? Wonderful how you sidesweep everything that is in the Quran, and go for one random example.
Re: Re: Are Muslims Racists??
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*Originally posted by Sher: *
[Al-Kisa’i writes in his chapter on Noah:
It is said that one day Noah came to his son and said, “My son, I have not slept since I boarded the ark,
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According to the Quran Noah's son was not a believer and he drowned in the flood/storm. This story you have mentioned is baseless.
From the Quran. Chapter 11:42-43.
42. So the Ark floated with them on the waves (towering) like mountains, and Noah called out to his son, who had separated himself (from the rest): "O my son! embark with us, and be not with the unbelievers!"
43. The son replied: "I will betake myself to some mountain: it will save me from the water." Noah said: "This day nothing can save, from the command of Allah, any but those on whom He hath mercy! "And the waves came between them, and the son was among those overwhelmed in the Flood.
Sher, if i read a books review and start writing my own review without reading the book, it would make so sense.
Sher, there is theological justification for stupidity in evey religion, so what's the point? The point is that there is also a lot of good in religion, the over arching messages are basically good in every religion. Nitpicking and posting verses to prove or unprove the validity of religious thought is dumb.
If someone uses the quran to help buddhist kids in Sri Lanka, that is a great thing. If some one uses the upanishads to teach a muslim boy of what it means to be dutiful to your fellow man, it is all good.
Some things that are written are contexual of the time they are written in...so there are some irregularities but that doesn;t mean that the impact of the overall teachings is wrong. Whether Quran is god's word or whether it is a collection of human and spiritual knowledge at that time is not the issue, the issue is that over a billion people believe n something, there must be something of value in the scripture to make it valid. Just like there are 2 billion christians and almost a billion hndus. People are not attracted to divisive thought, theya re attracted to what brings them together. that s what religion provides. Religious practices make them feel a sense of belongng to a collective. ther is nothing wrong with that.
Faith does not need proof. That is why it is called faith. Otherwise it would be called the universal truth. So stop trying to lament that atheism is the best religion because it is not. Trust me...when your balls are in a vice, even atheists will remember allah or vishnu or jesus or yahweh....
Re: Re: Re: Are Muslims Racists??
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*Originally posted by MyStiCaL_MisS: *
According to the Quran Noah's son was not a believer and he drowned in the flood/storm. This story you have mentioned is baseless.
From the Quran. Chapter 11:42-43.
42. So the Ark floated with them on the waves (towering) like mountains, and Noah called out to his son, who had separated himself (from the rest): "O my son! embark with us, and be not with the unbelievers!"
43. The son replied: "I will betake myself to some mountain: it will save me from the water." Noah said: "This day nothing can save, from the command of Allah, any but those on whom He hath mercy! "And the waves came between them, and the son was among those overwhelmed in the Flood.
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Do you know which son of Noah you are talking about... ? by the the story I mentioned was from a Muslim scholar which in turn was introduced to Arab culture from Genesis along many other myths ofcourse. Arab people did beleive in those stories.
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*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Sher, there is theological justification for stupidity in evey religion, so what's the point? The point is that there is also a lot of good in religion, the over arching messages are basically good in every religion. Nitpicking and posting verses to prove or unprove the validity of religious thought is dumb.
If someone uses the quran to help buddhist kids in Sri Lanka, that is a great thing. If some one uses the upanishads to teach a muslim boy of what it means to be dutiful to your fellow man, it is all good.
Some things that are written are contexual of the time they are written in...so there are some irregularities but that doesn;t mean that the impact of the overall teachings is wrong. Whether Quran is god's word or whether it is a collection of human and spiritual knowledge at that time is not the issue, the issue is that over a billion people believe n something, there must be something of value in the scripture to make it valid. Just like there are 2 billion christians and almost a billion hndus. People are not attracted to divisive thought, theya re attracted to what brings them together. that s what religion provides. Religious practices make them feel a sense of belongng to a collective. ther is nothing wrong with that.
Faith does not need proof. That is why it is called faith. Otherwise it would be called the universal truth. So stop trying to lament that atheism is the best religion because it is not. Trust me...when your balls are in a vice, even atheists will remember allah or vishnu or jesus or yahweh....
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Thanks for that BUT I know all that and of course I am not trying to impose atheism onto anyboy I am just trying to find out more about how far people would go to prove that their religion is THE BEST and others are not worth a pence
Yeah but this thread is not whether one religion is the best. Anyone who says that is devoid of minimal intelligence. This is about your pissing on islam using a stupid premise. So what...if one verse in the quran depicting a historical tale narrated someone's belief a thousand years ago shows a racist attitude. Does it mean that people should stop giving to charities that builds homes for the poor in afghanistan, because there are verses in the quran that also suggest helping the poor. What is your fking point?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Are Muslims Racists??
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*Originally posted by Sher: *
Do you know which son of Noah you are talking about... ? by the the story I mentioned was from a Muslim scholar which in turn was introduced to Arab culture from Genesis along many other myths ofcourse. Arab people did beleive in those stories.
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The son which was mentioned in the quran, which i believe was the only son he had.
The persian and arab philosophers youve mentioned were they muslims or zorastrian and idol worshippers?
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*Originally posted by Matsui: *
So what...if one verse in the quran depicting a historical tale narrated someone's belief a thousand years ago shows a racist attitude.
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He never mentioned anything from the quran, so cut it out...
if what you say is right, then bring it fwd...
:)
^ jesus you guys are defensive. 
Here I am agreeing with you and there you go again proving him right. Good job yet again.
That means Mr Matsui, it is not me who is pissin’ about It is you. You don’t know Jack and yet talking like you know everything about every religion. You tel me what is your fking point.