Racial category

[ahmadjee]

Re: Racial category

Most forms I have filled out lumps up all Asians into one.

The ones that do differentiate between South Asians, Middle Easterners and East Asians, often list down countries too to make things clear. I think for one of my employers the optional racial disclosure form that I filled out had 'Indian subcontinent' as an option, with Pakistan and other South Asian countries listed in bracket.

If I had the option to pick Middle Eastern vs. Asian Indian, I would pick Asian Indian. Mainly because these forms/surveys are just trying to gather some statistics. Besides, I don't have any hangups regarding my roots, where I come from nor do I think being an Asian Indian is any better than being Middle Eastern or the other way around.

Disclaimer: I haven't read the rest of the thread.

[ssingh]

Re: Racial category

those arent real pakis, they are just indians pretending to be pakis to fool the paki viewers (40% of hindi channel viewership btw) about their racial heritage.

May be it is only that 40% who are like indians. The remaining, like people from NWFP and balochistan are afghan or central asians. Perhaps they should join their afghan brothers politically in future.... ;)

[labella]

Re: Racial category

in the uk there is a seperate category for asians and a whole list of pakistani options are available..they tend to have pakistani kashmiri and pakistani mirpuri as in my area there are a lot of kashmiri people..i usually tick other pakistani

[Mamaof3]

Re: Racial category

It doesnt matter what you look like, it all boils down to what you ARE - in your DNA. See the new thread on that topic, it really IS an important issue, even in a social sense. I mean if most pakistanis check the "caucasian" box, they do not classify themselves properly and cannot be identified should the need arise - like say theres a little enclave of pakistanis in a large town and they do not do well in school. This would be a flag raised when the census is done and the school district would and should be provided with extra funding to help fix the problem. Thats one of the more important aspects of the census. If they all checked "caucasian", it would just look like there is scattered and ill-defined trouble with students in that particular school district and no extra funding or assistance would be provided other than perhaps more scrutiny of the teachers and administrators. Thats just one small aspect of it but a very important one IMHO

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Racial category

in the uk there is a seperate category for asians and a whole list of pakistani options are available..they tend to have pakistani kashmiri and pakistani mirpuri as in my area there are a lot of kashmiri people..i usually tick other pakistani

yeah the reasons they have all those classifications in Uk is to figure out what is going on with demographic groups of interest.

as mamaof3 said, that info is used to figure out community needs, educational and social investments needed. being accurate is important.

The challenge that I will note is that in US teh forms are not standardized across diff fed depts and def not between fed and state and city. so what you write in one may be diff than what you write in another.

why dont they just make a desi checkbox

but then the debate will start whether afghanis, bengladeshis, srilankans and deep soth indians are desi or not.

[abdelyuuki]

Re: Racial category

The options we have here are :
Caucasian - White
African
Carribean
Middle eastern
Asian - Indian
Asian - Pakistani
Asian - Bengali
Chinese
Other

I'm a koshur speaking ethnic kashmiri, my family and I all always tick [Other] :P There are hardly any ethnic Kashmiris in UK...its flooded with Mirpuris who go around saying "Im a proud Jatt/Rajput Kashmiri" and call mirpuri/potwari kashmiri. I feel like crying sometimes

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Racial category

so what is teh diff between ethnic kashmiris and mirpur kashmiris?

PS: who is caucasian and who is errr whatever teh indians are :)

[Mamaof3]

Re: Racial category

Mr F is right, we've filled out so many forms for so many different reasons - school registration, passport issuance, early intervention, medical forms, etc....

and NEVER do they have the same categories! Right hand doesnt know what left hand is doing...SOME attempt is made but gov't agencies are notorious for not talking to each other and it really sux.

[abdelyuuki]

Re: Racial category

2 Reasons

1 - Pakistan has a mostly Muslim population 2 - Pakistan is in the North West Region of the Sub-Continent

So the Pakistani muslims are descendants from Arabs, Central Asians, Southern Europeans (Alexander the Great), Turks, Iranians, where as Indian muslims were Hindu converts

And thus we have fair complexion and have different body structure than Indians.

India is located in Central region of Sub-Continent and thus, Arabs didn't conquer lands that deep into India. And when Islam spread, it was mostly Hindus who converted into Islam. And thus, they never got any Middle Eastern/Central Asian/Southern European genes introduced into them.

And thus, when Pakistan was created, it was a mostly muslim country with people who were descendants of Middle East/Central Asia/Southern Europe

And that is the reason why Indians and Pakistanis look different and why Pakistani Muslims look different than Indian Muslims

I hope that answers all the questions :)

Pakistan has a 58% Punjabi population, these Punjabis call themselves Rajput,Jatt,Sudhun and then say that they have Iranian/Arab descent. That is a pack of lies, all of these people have hindu ancestors from India. Rajputs being from Rajasthan, Sudhuns being from northern Punjab etc.

ONLY their religeon changed when the muslims invaded the area, their genes remain the same.

Yes some Punjabis will have Iranian or Arab blood in them, but the overwhelming majority will not and does not.

Pushtuns are Iranic, some Balochis are also Iranic, Sindhis are also natives to the region.

I'm ethnic Kashmiri, my ancestors were Bhuddists/Hindus of the Kashmir Valley, I'm extremely light skinned and so is my whole family, my mother is a natural red head! we're always taken for Turkish, Iranian or some other crap. But we know that we are natives to the Kashmir valley! It is absurd to say that just because you have lighter complexion you somehow have Iranian or other blood in you.

The majority of Rajputs are Hindus in India and are also light skinned just like their counterparts across the border in Pakistan. They are the same people, the only difference being that the ones in Pakistan somehow claim Iranian descent -_-...

P.S. Arabs are dark and generally not very good looking! (in my opinion :D)

[Mallika]

Re: Racial category

^very well written. Thanks for the info:)

[abdelyuuki]

Re: Racial category

so what is teh diff between ethnic kashmiris and mirpur kashmiris?

PS: who is caucasian and who is errr whatever teh indians are :)

Mirpuris -> Mirpur -> on the edge of the Potohar plains of Punjab, majority population identifying themselves as being Jatt. speak Potwari, follow Punjabi/Jammu culture. Hot climate

Ethnic Kashmiris -> Kashmir valley -> 7000ft high up in the himalyan mountains, have no castes, so there are no caste names (its unislamic anyway), speak koshur, culture vastly different to Punjab/Jammu. Alpine climate.

I personally dont think either are caucasian (I'd never call myself caucasian). Kashmiris are not 'Indian' either though so to speak.

[Mallika]

Re: Racial category

But a person from deep deep south india looks(in terms of features) different from a person from Gujarat and this person in turn looks different than a Parsi Indian who in turn looks different from a person from nagaland or mizroram(who tend to have more mongoloid features) who in turn looks different from a person from say Punjab or Himachal Pradesh. Still they all see themselves as Indians. It's incredible how diverse people in India are in terms of looks, culture and religion!! I love it:)

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Racial category

Mr F is right, we've filled out so many forms for so many different reasons - school registration, passport issuance, early intervention, medical forms, etc....

and NEVER do they have the same categories! Right hand doesnt know what left hand is doing...SOME attempt is made but gov't agencies are notorious for not talking to each other and it really sux.

I sense your pain...you are talking about forms, when we adopted the kids we gave all info and documents to homeland security to get permission

then we gave the same documents to consulate for teh visas

thenw e gave the same information to courts to finalize US portion of the adoption

then social security asked for all teh same info to give us social security cards

and passport people asked for all teh same info for passports..

but wait there is more...social security ppl want the kids documents plus pic id with old names and new names...what do they want as an official picture id with new name..a a passport

and what do the passport people need to issue a passport..a social security number..!!!!!!! otherwise IRS fines you 500 bucks per offense.

:)

PS: oh yeah everyone wants original documents..sheesh

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Racial category

i suggest all ppl to order those swabs and send them to that study which traces where your ancestors are from.

:D

[Shoor]

Re: Racial category

till how far back does the study trace one's ancestors?

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Racial category

till how far back does the study trace one's ancestors?

hmmm ameobas I think.

nyah I dunno..someone had posted a link here. I am thinking of doing it..question is, is it worth $100.

[Mamaof3]

Re: Racial category

Have u seen that movie with Winona Ryder as a child, mean ghost in it...name of the movie escapes me at the moment. Theres a GREAT scene in it where they show ghost "state workers", they're people who earned "hell" in their lives on earth and their eternal punishment is to be a paper-pushing government beaurocrat lol!

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Racial category

Have u seen that movie with Winona Ryder as a child, mean ghost in it...name of the movie escapes me at the moment. Theres a GREAT scene in it where they show ghost "state workers", they're people who earned "hell" in their lives on earth and their eternal punishment is to be a paper-pushing government beaurocrat lol!

beetlejuice??

[Shoor]

Re: Racial category

I don't think it's worth getting your cheek poked.

[Mamaof3]

Re: Racial category

about that study...I put the link in the "human race" thread...its really utterly fascinating. They go back to the dawn of time, starting with "Adam", take a look at the link and the study...we want to participate, havent dont it yet but we do really want to join in.