Quran and sunnah is enough for us to be successful

Society Religion & Philosophy
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This is true to a large degree.

However I'd not call "Bukhari's rumors".

Imam Bukhari did his thing by collecting whatever he could. But he never made it obligatory to follow down to the every letter.

As I said earlier, Ahadees are an interesting read to see how early Muslims were trying to evolve and adapt.

The problem is not with Ahadees.

The problem is with today's Muslims who put Hadees first and Quran second.

If you read Holy Quran, MOST of the things are clear as a day. But we still want to go and be the blind followers of Sharia (the word of Men like Imam Hanifa) instead of seeing the light through Quran.

And yes if some of us are utterly dumbfounded and totally lost after reading a specific topic in Quran, it is OK to go check out what Imam Bukhari collected.

Thus the problem is the priority we place and not veracity of ahadees.

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Re: Quran and sunnah is enough for us to be successful

For those people who think that hadith or scholars are put before Qur'an when we look to hadith and scholars.

Firstly, one must understand the process of legacy. Legacy is something that we take from our teachers, who in turn have taken from their teachers, going all the way back to Muhammad (SAW) or his companions (RA).

It is hence legacy that we try to uphold when we are confronted with the verses of Qur'an.

Just like our teachers have taught us and their teachers have taught them ... the Sahabah used to be listening to Muhammad (SAW) narrating verses of the Qur'an. They used to form understandings immediately like any human would, but look at the humility and desire they had to be 'correct'. They used to submit those understandings as secondary to the understanding of Muhammad (SAW).

When RasoolAllah used to ask them "Do you know what this means?" they used to reply,
"Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (SAW) know best" ... i.e. they wanted to hear what the real authority said about the topic rather than formulating their own understanding from it.

We can indeed do the same. Our teachers ask us what we understand, we ask to know the way it is supposed to be understood. Now we can read a verse from the Qur'an ourselves, but it is not putting hadith before Qur'an if we consult hadith for the meanings given to those verses by the pious predecessors, Sahabah and the prophet (SAW) himself.

Rather infact we are upholding a tradition his legacy by submitting our own understandings to see what understandings on those verses came before - even for the clear verses.

If we say that the priority is Qur'an and then hadith we should only say this when we are comparing two opposing rulings, knowing that either the Qur'an or Hadith will have a context in which they differ. However, to obtain a deeper meaning of a verse from the Qur'an we must go to the hadith.

We should forsake our common sense in favour of hadith, but where hadith is silent then we should use that common sense. The Qur'an is where we take the initial concept from.

When some people say we follow Qur'an and not hadith ... really they are saying:

We follow Qur'an the way we understand it and not the way the prophet Muhammad (SAW) or his companions understood it. That is what they really are saying.

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peace psyah,

What I'm going to say is not "personal judgement", but purely a comment on the use of "legacy".

So hear me out. OK?
**
Do you know what Amr ibn Hishām used to tell Mohammed pbuh?

--- He would say,I love you, and I care for you. You are my family, my tribe, My nephew.

my dear nephew! Why are you bent upon proving that our "legacy" is bad. Do you think our fathers, and forefathers, and fore-fore-fathers were idiots?

Please respect them, they have been been the caretaker of the Allah's house for centuries upon centuries.

Do you think they were all wrong?

He would say O Mohammad pbuh ---

----- Please stop spreading this message of yours, that no man made interpretation should be accepted.
-----Don't tell us that we the Quraish should be in direct conneciton with Allah swt.
----- Respect the legacy of our family, our tribe etc.
**

Psyah,

do you know that Amr ibn Hishām became rigid, and said, I don't care what you say Mohammed pbuh, I'll continue following my legacy, my teachers, my teacher's teachers, all the way upto Ibrahim pbuh.

And precisely due to his staunch opposition to adapt and change, Amr ibn Hishām was known as?

you known his given name? Don't you?

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Peace burqaposhx

I had a feeling someone was going to bring this topic up when I mentioned the term 'legacy'.

The difference in what I am saying and in what you have said is an ocean.

1) The legacy refered to by Amr ibn Hisham (above) is the legacy of idol worship. It was not that his reasoning was wrong, rather it was sound, and there is a basis and purpose for tradition in Islam, however he was saying this legacy trumped the authority of Muhammad (SAW), there he was wrong. I am on the other hand talking about the great legacy of Islam.

2) Their basis for legacy was family and age old traditions, our basis for legacy is to refer matters to the knowledgable and pious predecessors. There is a world of difference in here alone.

3) Also the method of Sahabah is well documented. They used to wait until they heard the interpretation of Muhammad (SAW). If not legacy then at least we should follow their excellent example and 'wait' to interpret matters from Qur'an until we have heard what our authorities and in turn their authorities have said about the issue first.

4) Scientifically it is sounder to first get background data before we draw conclusions.

Legacy or tradition has a place in Islam, it is purified from the legacy that was used as an excuse to continue doing blind acts of wrongful worshipping of idols. We on the other hand are not doing anything blindly but it requires alot of research to find the opinions of the Salaf and study them.

To follow our immediate understanding of Qur'an is more like following what our parents say without questionning it, because both of these require less effort and no attempt to be correct.

Their form of submission was nested in the idea of going against their norms, our form of submission is to accept our intellects are limited.

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peace psyah.

I do not think Mohammed pbuh' family in particular and Quraish in general were idol worshipers.

Some arabs were worshipping idols, but many in Makkah were not. They would tolerate idol worshippers, but they themselves were not so.

Most of the Makkans followed Ibrahim pbuh's religion. The concept of Allah swt, and angels etc. were all part of their religion.

Do you think Hazrat Khadijah was an idol worshipper? Heck no.

Similarly many other companions were simply followers of Deen e Ibrahim pbuh.

So please update your knowledge before you accuse every Makkan in pre-Islamic period as "Idol worshippers", because they were not.

Thank you.

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Re: Quran and sunnah is enough for us to be successful

^ Well said! Monotheism had been around for a long time before Muhammad contributed his own knowledge to it. Khadija herself was of Hanafi school of thought, and she inspired Muhammad. Khadija's own family was Christian ( I think).

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^ one request MN... Next time you mention Hazrat Mohammad saw's name, do put a little (saw) or (pbuh) besides it... that would really mean a lot... have some respect.. cheers.

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Hz. Khadija(ra) was of Hanafi school of thought?
based on this alone i can say with surety that you do not know much history or truth for that matter. How can she be of Hanafi school of thought when it 'did not exist' during her time? Iman Abu Hanifa was born years after the Holy Prophet(saw)'s death. At the time of Rasulullah(saw) there were no such schools' of thought, there was only ONE school of thought. Or unless if you're trying to say that Hz. Khadija(ra) could see into the future and the differences arising and she chose the Hanafi school of thught that would come some 100 or so years later?

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Re: Quran and sunnah is enough for us to be successful

shame on those who speak without knowledge

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Re: Quran and sunnah is enough for us to be successful

ps: there are a few good educated posters here, mashallah :D

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Re: Quran and sunnah is enough for us to be successful

^like me:@:

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That's true.

Perhaps you wanted to say "Ibrahimi school of thought".

because

Hanafi school of thought takes its name after Imam Abu Hanifa ah, and thus came AFTER hazrat Khadijah pbuh (and not before).

Or perhaps you meant to say something entirely different and mistyped "hanafi" instead.

She certainly inspired Mohammed pbuh. She was an excellent companion. She was older, wiser, and operated a large successful "woman-owned" business. Thus pretty similar in "business sense" to, if not better than many modern day women business leaders.

I have not seen clearly any reference to Hazrat Khadijah's pbuh family being the follower of Eesah pbuh.

However one thing is for sure. Hazrat Khadijah ra was very much familiar with Eesa-hi pbuh philosophy.

In fact it is recorded by many, that she is the one who asked Mohammed pbuh to go visit a padri in Makkah. yes there used to be churches in Makkah until us Muslims destroyed them all.

After the first Wahi, and a visit from Hazrat Jibraeel ah, Mohammed pbuh was pretty stressed out. So when he came home, Hazrat Khadijah calmed him down, and (perhaps few days later) asked Him pbuh to go visit the padri and discuss with him the Wahi.

And theChristian padri was perhaps the very first "religious man" who reaffirmed to Mohammed pbuh that yes, Allah swt has indeed spoken to Him pbuh.

Thus there was a close interaction between Hazrat Khadijah pbuh and the local church leaders for sure.

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:hmmm: it’s my first time hearing anything like this…any reference u got there?

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:hmmm: I can’t believe that a learned person like you didn’t know about the early years of Wahi!

Local Esa-hi padri was (in some traditions) a cousin of Hazrat Khadijah pbuh.

And Christian priest’s name was Waraqah ibn Nawfal. Are you sure you never read about this important fact?

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I think you are referring to ‘Waraqa bin naufal’, a cousin of Hazrat khadija (ra)
but I think he was not a priest , may be christian and scholar of torah and injeel.

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Peace burqaposhx

Please pray that Allah (SWT) increases me in knowledge and indeed to be more accurate in expression.

Abu Jahl was indeed the mouthpiece for those idol worshippers from amongst the majority of the Qura'ish. He made the statement and it was that aspect to which I replied. It seems everything else I have written remains to be contested by you. So I hope we are at an understanding at least you know where I am coming from.

Thank you also.

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Re: Quran and sunnah is enough for us to be successful

burqa and mn working togather

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Peace shardmanny

Is that mn = men? or mn = 'iman? or mn = manny (shardmanny)

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Re: Quran and sunnah is enough for us to be successful

miss noland

wa alaykum as-salaam

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Aaah! I get it! .... LOL ... Now it looks like you saying wa'alaikum salam to Miss_Noland ...

hehehe Peace (salams)