lol… Ignorance is shown at its height by your post. Thanks.
Kakey,
If you read carefully, it says Parliament is debating a bill to extend quotas to IITs. So as things stand they are exempt.....
I did read carefully. Its your turn now. :)
Why are you guys marketing 'made up' stuff, coming up with senseless statistics and absurd comparisons? Just stick to the point that quota system based on population is unfair and can only be acceptable if it benefits socially and economically under-privileged classes. I think we all agree on it.
[quote=“TheRealDeal, post:81, topic:215526”]
Muhajir ‘culture’??
Pathans, Sindhis, Balochis, Pathans, Punajbis have a long and ancient culture. ‘Muhajirs’ do not.
Chewing paan and speaking Urdu is hardly a ‘culture’.
Thats not a RealDeal buddy
they had there identies and culture back in India, and the migrate in Pakistan with a lot of secrefies, and they still mainting and keeping there culture.
if a paan and only speak urdu is big DEAL for you
then I dont believe the culture of LASSI, DHOTI, NASWAR etc.
shame on such thoughts bro.
A Punjabi friend said it right.
Quota system as understood or managed in Pak, is in fact a "Khota system".
Seriously!
Anyone who lives in urban areas, or anyone who has gone to big name schools in urban areas should never ever never ask for any bakhshish, or Khota system bheek.
If we must have preferential treatment in jobs or schools then it should be reserved for "under-privileged regions of Sindh, Balochistan, and may be may be FATA. Everyone else should be accepted only and only on merit.
If some one from Lahore, Multan (or other areas of Urban Punjab) asks for Quota, then he/she should be given a ride on a khota until he quits asking for the bheek of preferential treatment.
Similarly anyone from urban areas like Peshawar, Charsadda, or Abbotabad asks for a preferential treatment, he/she too should be given khota treatment.
And last but not least anyone from Karachi or Hyderabad even mentions the quota, should be given a certificate to be an authentic ***ta.
Thank you.
Re: Quota system-is it justified: split from Karachi blood bath
I am going to ignore Real Deals posting.
But I do see a consensus here. Everyone, except Asif accepts the system as it stands is wrong. We all except that there does need to be someform of affirmative action for the REALLY backward regions. Now my next question is, if we a bunch of internet nerds with lots of faltoo time can come to this consensus, why can't our politicians.
Re: Quota system-is it justified: split from Karachi blood bath
For once you make sense Posh Spice.
[quote]
If we must have preferential treatment in jobs or schools then it should be reserved for "under-privileged regions of Sindh, Balochistan, and may be may be FATA. Everyone else should be accepted only and only on merit.
[/quote]
Very well said.
Icon,
My lot are orignally from Rohtak, (they would love to speak like Lukhnawis!!!), and I can tell from personal experience, that the Shaukat administration tried there hardest to keep the Ambala Division refugees (non-Punjabis like Meos etc from East Punjab) out of the province. Sarah Ansari has written quite a bit on this.
Rohtak and ambala division is part of present haryana state in india.Majority of muslim refugees from haryana,indian punjab,himachal,jammu-kashmir and rajasthan were mostly settled in punjab province of pakistan.There might have been some exceptions but they were rare.
There is also another story which goes that gandhiji had persuaded the meo muslims of mewat district to stay behind india.
Another thing is that most mohajirs who came to punjab mostly got assimilated with native people just like the kashmiris who came to punjab a few generations ago got integrated with punjabis.
I am going to ignore Real Deals posting.
But I do see a consensus here. Everyone, except Asif accepts the system as it stands is wrong. We all except that there does need to be someform of affirmative action for the REALLY backward regions. Now my next question is, if we a bunch of internet nerds with lots of faltoo time can come to this consensus, why can't our politicians.
Politicians will quit talking if we quit begging them for khota oops Quota.
For some of us MQM wala Karachites, the real bone of contention is the the khota system used federal jobs.
And this makes the rest of us really really sad.
For people living in big cities like Karachi or Lahore, federal jobs are like pittance compared to the world of opportunities we have! Literally!.
For most of us urban youth in Pak, our English skills, our mild manners, allow us an open access to 1000 times better income possible in this global village. And we don't even have to step outside our cities to achieve that.
Just imagine. Tourism (both leisure and medical), AND as providers of professional services for ~180 million Pakistanis, and 2+ billion Indians, Chinese, Iranians, and CIS people, we could be making $100+ K right here in middle of Karachi and Lahore.
But NO!
We must use Shaitani and Kuffari concepts of ethnic and religious violence and eat the $hite on fighting like bee-aachis over a tiny tiny number of federal jobs.
Why on earth these MQM-walas in Karachi ignore the simple simple simple fact. That the internet revolution of 1990s, has made the federal jobs irrelevant unless you live in a federal capital like Islamabad, New Delhi, Washington DC etc.
For educated youth living in port cities like Bombay, Karachi, Dubai, Calcutta, New York, etc. only sky is the limit and that sky is way way higher than the ****ey slimy cesspools called federal government offices.
The day we realize this basic fact, we will quit fighting on pennies and starting making dollars. That's the day when Karachi and Lahore will be among TOP destination for the visitors from all over the world, and Dubai will be sending workers to our cities instead of us going over there asking for bheek.
I doubt the figures for Lahore, as there is tendency among urban Punjabis to claim Urdu as there first language. And secondly, what are the percentages, how much of Lahore is Urdu speaking.
Lahore has much more population then cities in seraiki belt,so i think the figure must be quite close to thier exact population.
As per official statistics urdu is spoken as first langague by no more than 8% of pakistans population.If the urban punjabis were included in urdu list then i guess the figure of urduspeakers should have been much higher then 8%.
Another thing is that most of the mohajirs who came to punjab mostly got assimilated with the local people just the kashmiris who came to punjab a few generations ago have integrated with punjabis.Shahbaz sharif is of kashmiri ancestry.
I doubt the figures for Lahore, as there is tendency among urban Punjabis to claim Urdu as there first language. And secondly, what are the percentages, how much of Lahore is Urdu speaking. I have several relatives in Multan, and Muhajirs occupy distinct neighbourhoods.
As far as I know, Lahore is one of the most homegenous cities in South Asia, so need for Bal Thakray or Shiv Sena like organization. My wife is Lahori Punjabi, of mixed Kashmiri and Arain background. My Susrali tell me even caste wise, its mainly Kashmiri (Butt Mir etc) and Arain (Chaudhary & Mian). Both these castes ape the Muhajir culture, teach there kids Urdu, eat Paan and listen to ghazals. My wife speaks better Urdu then me. I suspect a lot of the Urdu speakers in Lahore belong these communities.
LOL, I can assure you khan sahib, no one in Punjab would like to make a claim and that too false of being an urdu speaker.
As for caste wise its mainly jatts, kashmiris and arians that are dominant and proudly display their casts as surnames. They are also more successful in business, education and politics, hence they appear more prominent than the rest. Lahore has more than a million pushtoon sas well.
Its true that many Lahoris are very fond of eatign paans but no they don't listen to ghazals and they don't see any pride in being called urdu speaking
LOL, I can assure you khan sahib, no one in Punjab would like to make a claim and that too false of being an urdu speaker.
As for caste wise its mainly jatts, kashmiris and arians that are dominant and proudly display their casts as surnames. They are also more successful in business, education and politics, hence they appear more prominent than the rest. Lahore has more than a million pushtoon sas well.
Its true that many Lahoris are very fond of eatign paans but no they don't listen to ghazals and they don't see any pride in being called urdu speaking
Icon,
I know many Lahoris, and trust me a good number take great pride in saying they don't speak punjabi and just speak Urdu. Because my susraal are Arain and Kashmiri, I know both these groups more then say Jats. And trust me they take great pride in NOT SPEAKING Punjabi. And its just possible that some of them would put Urdu as there language when asked in a census.
Asif,
There are as many Haryana Muhajir in Sindh as they are in Punjab. In Simdh, they live in close proximity to Upwalas, and have been assimilated by them. While in Punjab, a similar process has happened, but I have been to Sahiwal, and the Haryanwi still feel a culture distance from the Punjabis, and few marriages.
On the quota system, it has become rallying ground for Muhajir nationalism, especially for blue collor Muhajirs, who have less access to good educational institutions. So I come to my orignal point, that before we look at any other issues such as political violence, bombs in Karachi or any other issue, it is important come back to the QUOTA.
Re: Quota system-is it justified: split from Karachi blood bath
Khan Sahib, i have spent 10 yearsof my jawani in Lahore. No real kashmiri will ever call himself urdu speaking. Those who enist themselves as urdu speakers ARE of 100,000 urdu speakers who are living there. Who do you think attends MQMs processions in Lahore and listens to Altaf Hussains telephonic khatab.
Now as for arains, that group is quite heterogenous and its easy for people to claim being arain, as there subcasts are not well defined like those of kashmiris, lohars,gujjars, jats and rajputs.
...... On the quota system, it has become rallying ground for Muhajir nationalism, especially for blue collor Muhajirs,........I...
Perhaps we should see on this board at least, who are the blue collar Mohajirs and why they support khota system.
.............I come to my orignal point, that before we look at any other issues such as political violence, bombs in Karachi or any other issue, it is important come back to the QUOTA.
Pakistan's and even the whole third worlders are losing federal jobs under the strict guidelines from international funding agencies.
10-15 years from now, too few jobs will be left in the federal government offices. Most of the work will be done by contractors.
Why on earth will you continue to worrying about khota system more than bombs, violence, and above all ethnic filth?
Khan Sahib, i have spent 10 yearsof my jawani in Lahore. No real kashmiri will ever call himself urdu speaking. Those who enist themselves as urdu speakers ARE of 100,000 urdu speakers who are living there. Who do you think attends MQMs processions in Lahore and listens to Altaf Hussains telephonic khatab.
Now as for arains, that group is quite heterogenous and its easy for people to claim being arain, as there subcasts are not well defined like those of kashmiris, lohars,gujjars, jats and rajputs.
Fair enough, I'm going to be honest, and say my info is limited to my wifes extended family. So I admit my sample is limited.
I thought Arain were a fairly distinct caste, but once again I am not that hot on there origin, accept my father-in-law says that they are Palestinians from Jericho. They look Punjabi to me.
The quota system should be ceased because it is merely draging the country to ruin STOP IT
Re: Quota system-is it justified: split from Karachi blood bath
what about get a poll Mod ? about that KHOTA SYSTEM:D:
Icon,
Asif,
There are as many Haryana Muhajir in Sindh as they are in Punjab. In Simdh, they live in close proximity to Upwalas, and have been assimilated by them. While in Punjab, a similar process has happened, but I have been to Sahiwal, and the Haryanwi still feel a culture distance from the Punjabis, and few marriages.
So now we have harayanvi muhajirs too.I thought it was only the urdu speaking muslims who migrated from UP,CP,bihar and hyderabad who came to be known as muhajirs.Haryana used to be part of undivided punjab,i think they have more similarities with punjabis.Ranghari is the dialect spoken by haryanavis in punjab.
Icon, And trust me they take great pride in NOT SPEAKING Punjabi. And its just possible that some of them would put Urdu as there language when asked in a census.
Many Punjabi speakers in Lahore are known as Lahori Punjabi due to their use of a mixture of Punjabi and colloquial Urdu. And as for arains taking great pride in not speaking punjabi they should know that everyones strenght is their roots.
On the quota system, it has become rallying ground for Muhajir nationalism, especially for blue collor Muhajirs, who have less access to good educational institutions. So I come to my orignal point, that before we look at any other issues such as political violence, bombs in Karachi or any other issue, it is important come back to the QUOTA.
The MQM has been part of many coalition governments in the centre and provincial level in sindh,what have they done to reform the quota system being part of government.They have moved away from their original manesfesto.
Is it only muhajirs who lack access to good educational institutions?.My answer is no because most muhajirs live in urban areas and have better access to good education compared to their counterparts in rural areas.
So now we have harayanvi muhajirs too.I thought it was only the urdu speaking muslims who migrated from UP,CP,bihar and hyderabad who came to be known as muhajirs.Haryana used to be part of undivided punjab,i think they have more similarities with punjabis.Ranghari is the dialect spoken by haryanavis in punjab.
Asif,
Actually the Haryana Muslims have always had Urdu as their native language. Ranghari is just a dialect of Urdu, spoken by the local Rajputs and Jaats (most of whom became Muslim in the 18th Century). The city and town dwellers speak pretty standard Urdu. My village in Rohtak was only 20 miles from Delhi, and dialect is similiar to Delhi speech. Delhi is the cultural and economic hub of Haryana. The culture in western Up (Meerut, Aligarh, Rampur etc) is also similar.
Haryana was only added to Punjab as punishment in 1862. Now this does not apply to all Haryana, Sirsa people speak a language pretty close to Punjabi. On the other hand the Maalwai Punjabi is pretty close to Urdu, and easy to understand.
But those who come near Delhi, are pretty strong Urdu speakers, and have married extensively into people from Delhi and western UP.
Haryanwi people in Pakistan such as Dr Israr Ahmed (who I detest), Jamiludin Aali and Gen Moin Hyder are considered Muhajir.