Questions, Questions, Questions : Passion of the Christ

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Firstly I would start with my questions.

Beginning with the Christian perspective:

  • When “Jesus” was on the cross, the said “O Lord, why have you forsaken me?” ← something like that. This really puzzled me. I mean they way he was saying this etc. What does this imply? What does it really mean?

  • Why was “Mary” and the other girl wiping his (“Jesus’s”) blood on the floor with those white cloths?

  • It’s weird that when “Jesus” was paraded, a girl approached him to give him water and a guard kicked the cup away and then when he’s about to die they soak a sponge and let him wet his mouth. Why?

  • Also who was the lady and the man whom accompanied Mary when they stood under the cross where “Jesus” was crucified?

  • Why did the ladies covered their heads in the movie? Is that what christians women used to do?

  • There were two other guys who were crucified next to “Jesus”. Who are they and why were they crucified. Also why did “Jesus” say to the other guy who was crucified on his right that he’d go to heaven with him?

Now on the Islamic perpective

We know Hazrat Isa (a.s.) did not die, was Judas (what’s his Islamic name btw?) the person who was crucified in his place? Did the people not realise later whom they had crucified?

Also if Hazrat Isa (a.s.) had been their captor, was he also beaten badly before Allah saved him?

And was Hazrat Mariam(a.s.) alive when he was taken prisoner(if he was)?

On a side note, considering what I have heard of this movie this and that, I thought I would freak out and cry.

I am glad I didn’t :o considering the kind of person I am. It wasn’t that graphic though. I just forward the part where they were gonna pierce him with the nails coz my little bros were watching with me. {I told them not to watch but they insisted}

I got emotional at the point where “Jesus” falls down when he is carrying the cross and there are flashbacks to the time when he’s a kid and he falls and his mom “Mary” runs to him and keeps saying “I am here… I am here”. :frowning: I just so reminded me of Hazrat Imam Hussain (a.s.) when he was on the fields of Karbala and how his mom would have been.

The scene on of “Mary” was heart breaking – the way all along she looked at her son usually silently and at times she would break down, again it reminded me of Hazrat Fatimah (a.s.) and Hazrat Zainab (a.s.) seeing their beloved Hazrat Imam Hussain’s (a.s) get killed.

All along “Jesus” was being beaten and dragged along the street, it just reminded me of Hazrat Zainul Abideen (a.s.) Especially when they put the chains and that piercing thingie on his head.

And then there was a scene where “Jesus” said: “Forgive them father, they do not know” it reminded me of the incident when Hazrat Muhammad {pbuh} went to a village to call them to Islam, and they threw rocks at him, then Gabriel came down and said that Allah says: “by your command, the two mountains shall close on them” - the Holy Prophet {pbuh} said: “Oh My God and beloved, they do not know” Something like that.

And also when one of his followers was going to place the cup of water near his lips, and the Roman soldier kicked the Jug, it just so reminded me of Sakina (Hazrat Imam Hussain’s (a.s) daughter)

Literally, the whole movie just reminded me of Ahlu Bait (a.s) and their suffering.

:frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

2

all those who love Allah strive hard in His Way so His Name wud be held high....
and more often than not they r tested with such severe punishments....

many prophets (as) were martyred by bani israel including Zakariya (as) and his son Yahya (as)....

even Prophet Muhammad (saw) went thru a lot of suffering for the sake of Islam....
as did his companions....
and his family....

the most moving part in the movie, for me, was when Jesus cries out on the cross "forgive them father... they do not know"....
my mother watched the movie with me and she was crying with tears....

3

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
all those who love Allah strive hard in His Way so His Name wud be held high....
and more often than not they r tested with such severe punishments....

many prophets (as) were martyred by bani israel including Zakariya (as) and his son Yahya (as)....

even Prophet Muhammad (saw) went thru a lot of suffering for the sake of Islam....
as did his companions....
and his family....

the most moving part in the movie, for me, was when Jesus cries out on the cross "forgive them father... they do not know"....
my mother watched the movie with me and she was crying with tears....
[/QUOTE]

Surprise, surprise.

I thought you'd say it's haram to watch a movie like that. :p

Infact when I was watching this movie. ALL ALONG I was thinking about how Hazrat Imam Hussain (a.s.) and his family. One reason is here in this movie one person is suffering alone, on the fields of Karbala and in the streets of Shaam, little kids to old people were tortured and humiliated. That's unbearable.

My mom watched a bit only but my lil bro who's 8 to my eldest sis, we all watched it. My mom just kept saying that we shouldn't cry. I think at some point we came close to crying but none of us really did.

I better save my tears for sacrifices greater than this.

And.

You did not answer any of my questions. :(

4

Why cry over depiction of events that didnt really happen ? atleast not like they were depicted ?

We cry because the movies move us, but is it not wrong to get moved by something thats depicting a fundamental event in islam wrongly ?

I dunno what im saying :) I havnt watched the movie and i donot have the desire to watch it either.

5

^
watched it just for the sake of 'hearing their side of the story'....

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Re: Questions, Questions, Questions : Passion of the Christ

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by little human: *

[li]Why did the ladies covered their heads in the movie? Is that what christians women used to do?
[/li]
[/QUOTE]

There were no christians back then. Just jews. Clearly you didnt watch the movie carefully enough.

7

i thnk that movie shoud not be seen at all. for will you see any movie that showed the face of muhammad rasul allah :saw:?? no you wont and we are ORDERED to treat all the rasuls same and thus we should be offended by the movie that shows eesa (jesus) rasul allah :saw: as well.

wallah o alam

8

I get what you are saying. Thus, I said I am glad that I didn’t cry.

So "Jesus"s followers * were called Jews? “Mary” was a Jew?

It could be the Jews also covered their heads, but I was asking about the Christian perspective on this.

:mudhosh:

It depends on how you view it.

When I watched, I had in my mind this is “Jesus” {Not Hazrat Isa (a.s.), “Jesus” as in the person Christians believed to be the son of God} and these events are as per the Christian perspective.

When I finished watching, I looked up from the Islamic perspective what had happened.

It’s good we watched. Coz my siblings all were curious to know what had happened according to the Islamic perspective.

We all learned something that day.

By the way, anyone knows the answers to my questions :o Where do the christians here disappear to when I need them. :-/*

9

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by little human: *

So "Jesus"s followers * were called Jews? "Mary" was a Jew?

It could be the Jews also covered their heads, but I was asking about the Christian perspective on this.

/
[/QUOTE]

If christianity was already present at jesus' time, than his life was pretty worthless. Mary was jew, everyone he knew was jew (with the exception of romans) and he himself was a jew. He wanted to bring change to judaism, thus he got crucified for it (not killed, i hope you know). Since jews didnt want to have any change in their religion, they collabrated with the romans to get him crucified. Christinaity came into being some 50 to 100 years after his "death".*

10

Dear little human,

It is working for a while, but soon it would vanish, you would find RAham, karam, weeping for all, but for family of Rasoul; so much so people concoct stories to ignore the real facts. They would give importance to Yazeed's instance of asking for forgiveness ,to prove he was pious, and they ask for his forgiveness by saying Rahmat ullah aleh or Raziallah hou Taalla.

I do not know ahlal Baite Rasoul were so unlucky or those who ignore them and want that there may not any one left in the world , who recognizes them and love them as Rasoul had asked in Quran.

When i have read every ones reply above and your post I really could not control my self , on the BEKASI of grand son of Rasoul, that why shall people hate him, his family, his children, his father , his mother and love those who hurt them all the way after the VESAL of prophet Mohammed.

Why all muslims can not be ASHKBAR on WAQETAL KARBALLA.? Why shall people ignore that Quran says RAH HE KHUDA MEI SHAHEED HOUNE WALAY ZINDA HEIN UN KOU MURDA MAT KAHOU.

Why shall they forget that QURAN SAYS Cry more and laugh less.? Why shall not we (whole muslim ummah) decides and opts crying for his BEKASI and Sorrows and DARBADARI than to choose option to laugh for him getting shahadad (as one sect says).

Why Hussain , his father, his mother, his sisters ,his brothers, his sons and daughters are apparently so unlucky that there is one QOUM who works to decrease the people who are different from others due to the fact that they have choosen to be sad with the sorrows of prophet mohammed's family. They are treated every where, every muslim country as if loving them and getting sad on their problems is a sin, and for that they are not worth staying alive in this world.

What do they do? They only do not like three persons for the very reason that they have found in their SENA BA SENA ELIM that those three had made that family sad at different times
, and Rasoul's beloved daughter, injured first and later died due to their cruelity on her, just 6 months after the death of her father, who was a prophet Mohammed. She was just 18 years old then.

Why shall they not bear some sect to love Rasoul's family the way those people feel to express their love, to prophet and his family. What is the problem with these sects?

They even do not think that Rasoul has asked AJRE RESALAT to love this family. Why are these people in their heart so cruel on Hussain's family; that they do not care even for their AAqebat?

Whose fault? where muslims have gone wrong? why have they gone wrong?
MAAZRAT KAY SATH to all who do not agree to my point of view. Bye sokoon

Laughing and crying is FITRATE INSAN. Those who try to do against human nature they are doing wrong. Why ----????

11

Re: Questions, Questions, Questions : Passion of the Christ

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by little human: *
Firstly I would start with my questions.

Beginning with the Christian perspective:

[list]
[li]When “Jesus” was on the cross, the said “O Lord, why have you forsaken me?” ← something like that. This really puzzled me. I mean they way he was saying this etc. What does this imply? What does it really mean? [/li][/QUOTE]

Dear little human,

This website gives a catholic perspective on the ^.

http://www.americancatholic.org/Messenger/Apr2004/Feature1.asp

Sort of a long read… but the opinion here is that Jesus’ was reciting Psalm 22…

1.) My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me, from the words of my groaning?

2.) O my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer; and by night, but find no rest.

3.) Yet you are holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel.

4.) In you our ancestors trusted; they trusted, and you delivered them.

5.) To you they cried, and were saved; in you they trusted, and were not put to shame…

You can read entire Psalm 22 at ^ website.

At ^ website the opinion is:

Jesus makes his own the prayer of the psalmist, an innocent man who is suffering because of his fidelity to God’s will in his life…and these are not words of despair but an expression of faith.

12

The exaggerations in the films were basically the portrayal of "Satan" and the introduction of the idea of Salvation through the suffering of Christ. As the film claims to be based on facts, we have to see how honest it was to the biblical account.
Secondly, the words spoken by Christ do not speak for modern christian beliefs regarding trinity and salvation etc.
And i think that the gore factor was added to attract controversy.

13

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by I'm Kool: *

If christianity was already present at jesus' time, than his life was pretty worthless. Mary was jew, everyone he knew was jew (with the exception of romans) and he himself was a jew. He wanted to bring change to judaism, thus he got crucified for it (not killed, i hope you know). Since jews didnt want to have any change in their religion, they collabrated with the romans to get him crucified. Christinaity came into being some 50 to 100 years after his "death".
[/QUOTE]

Dear I'm Kool,

You wrote "Since jews didnt want to have any change in their religion, they collabrated with the romans to get him crucified."

Many of the peoples who practised judaism didn't accept Jesus as a messiah sent by God because they expected a messiah similar to the biblical David. This holds true today.

In the dark and middle ages the Church taught the idea that the Jews bare guilt for Jesus crucifiction.....creating predjudice and persecution which exists even today.

The modern Church renounces the idea that jewish people bear guilt for the crucifiction of Jesus. The Roman Catholic Church has made formal apology regarding these past injustices.

Modern biblical, historical and archealogical research theorizes that Jerusalem at the time of Jesus was a place of social and political unrest.

(Still is I suppose)

Social, religious and political unrest created conditions favorable toward Jesus crucifiction. Crucifiction was a Roman punishment for the crime of sedation (treason).

.

14

Someone like David :as:?

Meaning a great ruler, a king?, someone of great strength and wisdom?

I wonder who that could have been :slight_smile:

15

:slight_smile:

Someone capable of leading an army…perhaps.

The expected messiah was to liberate Jerusalem from Roman rule.

16

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *

:)

Someone capable of leading an army...perhaps.

The expected messiah was to liberate Jerusalem from Roman rule.
[/QUOTE]

I guess its too late for that now.
So why do you think the jews handed him over to the romans to get him crucified??? Some how him not being the messiah just doesnt quite do it for me.

17

What does Ahlu Bait (a.s) mean?
Sorry if its a dumb question..

18

Re: Re: Questions, Questions, Questions : Passion of the Christ

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
Sort of a long read.... but the opinion here is that Jesus' was reciting Psalm 22....

1.) My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me, from the words of my groaning?

2.) O my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer; and by night, but find no rest.

3.) Yet you are holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel.

4.) In you our ancestors trusted; they trusted, and you delivered them.

5.) To you they cried, and were saved; in you they trusted, and were not put to shame.......................

You can read entire Psalm 22 at ^ website.

At ^ website the opinion is:

Jesus makes his own the prayer of the psalmist, an innocent man who is suffering because of his fidelity to God’s will in his life.......and these are not words of despair but an expression of faith.
[/QUOTE]

good to see a human praying to The One True God asking for help and showing us how we all humans r helpless before the Will of God and that if a man as pious and close to God has to submit to the Will of God and face such hardship just so he may please His Lord than what do we have to go through to keep God happy with us....

19

many prophets (as) were martyred by bani israel including Zakariya (as) and his son Yahya (as)....

mughal Bhai, do you have a reference for this.

If I remember correctly, the only one martyred was John the Baptist. Though I could be wrong, thus the question.

20

little human,

According to Ahmadiyya Muslim belief, Hazrat Isa (as) was actually put to the cross but when taken down, he was still alive but unconcious. Later he migrated to the lost sheep of Israel (i.e. other tribes). I wanted to put this belief of mine up front, so you know where I am coming from and my biasness in the following answers.

When "Jesus" was on the cross, the said "O Lord, why have you forsaken me?" <-- something like that. This really puzzled me. I mean they way he was saying this etc. What does this imply? What does it really mean?

Hazrat Isa (as) was promised by Allah SWT that he will be saved. Therefore, he prophesized that he will show the miracle of Jonas [Matthew 16: 4]. If you didn’t know, Prophet Jonas was the one who stayed in the belly of a fish (presumably whale) and came out alive after three days. All traditions suggest he didn't die in the fish's belly. It is also reported in the book of Mathew that Hazrat Isa (as) prayed to Allah SWT in the Garden of Gethsemane that if possible he may be spared from this cup (of crucifixion) [Matthew 26 : 39] Now, when he was finally put to the cross, in anguish & anxiety he cried out 'Oh Lord, why have you forsaken me?' ..

Why was “Mary” and the other girl wiping his (“Jesus’s”) blood on the floor with those white cloths?

I do not recall such a tradition from Bible but I am not an expert on it. It might as well be movie direction addition?

It's weird that when "Jesus" was paraded, a girl approached him to give him water and a guard kicked the cup away and then when he's about to die they soak a sponge and let him wet his mouth. Why?

Historians disagree about this practice but the most prevalent idea is that the Romans wanted the criminals put on the cross to die of pain, not of thirst. While others argue that they were humane enough to at least give the person being punished, a last sip.

Why did the ladies covered their heads in the movie? Is that what christians women used to do?

It's a Judeo-Christian tradition from long. This is the very reason orthodox Christian women usually cover their hair. Catholic nuns do it for the same reason.

There were two other guys who were crucified next to "Jesus". Who are they and why were they crucified. Also why did "Jesus" say to the other guy who was crucified on his right that he'd go to heaven with him?

It is reported in the Gospels, the truth of which only Allah knows!