Few Questions:
If Mu’awiyah killed Hazrat Ali why do some Muslims say he was a good person and not a dumb ass?
If Yazid is the son Mu’awiyah why do all Muslims say he was a bastard?(I know about Karbala)
If the Ummayads were followers of Yazid and Mu’awiyah why do some Muslims say that they were good people and not sons of bitches?
What does SubHan Allah mean?
As far as I’ve researching about Islam I think that they all are burning in Hell.
Some of you may not know that I am a Pakistani christian converting to Muslim in few years.
Mu'awiyah didn't kill Hazrat Ali, but he was indirectly involved in the murder.
If you know urdu, let me give you two shairs of Ghalib representing his thought on Mu'awiyah/Yazid stuff:
Ye Ijteyhad Ajab hai key eik Dushman-i-Deen
Ali sey Aa key Larey Aur Bahla kheyhain Ous ko
Yazeed ko tou na tha Ijteyhaad ka Payia
Bura na maaneyee Gur hum Bura kheyhain Ous ko
Yazid was a bastard in every sense of that word.
Some of those muslims who said ummayads were good, well, they were illiterate, didn't posses the knowledge of history, Or they had to show them as highly good people in comparsion to Hazrat Ali's family.
You are right about them burning in Hell. My thinking is that they are the bottom level of Hell.
There are several islam related sites, If you care to find out, I can send you an email about the urls...
That was your opinion and you have a right to have such. But, I do have a right to call a Zalim, a Zalim. If I see and analyze event and someone comes out Bad, then the guy is Bad. I call a spade because I see it as a spade. You can restrict yourself by not raising your voice/comments about someone just because they were borned in Prophet's time. But for me, that qualification alone doesn't make them worthy of anything. Good deed is the criteria not just being borned in Prophet's time & being sahaba.
A question for you, Abrar, Do you respect Yazeed/his father & family???? the answer to this would definitely give me your opinion.
[This message has been edited by Imranz (edited 10-30-98).]
If you go to Jumma prayers, and listen to
the Khutba, you heard every week saying of
Rasool-ul-Lah ( Sal-lul-Lahu-Alaihi
Wassalam) a part of which says meaning more
or less "those who love my sahabah, love me,
and those who hate them hate me". So I have
not posted the message based on my opinion,
it is based on Hadith. May Allah give us
right understanding of Deen.
Following religion with open/logical mind is one thing than to follow any mullah blindly. You fall in the category where people believe in whatever they hear coming from mullah/moulana either because of,
1. lack of knowledge
2. lack of curiousity to find the validity of statements
3. Blind trust on other average men, i.e, mullahs/molvis
Have you ever thought about the validity of the hadith that you have quoted??? For what its worth, anyone in history could have written to protect certain personalities?? I DO NOT believe in Prophet who would put all his sahaba in the same category even when he knew that some of them did evil & wrongful deeds. IF you believe in such Prophet, thats fine. But I don't believe in this ridiculous/fabricated so called hadith where Right and Wrong would be same...
[This message has been edited by Imranz (edited 10-30-98).]
I think I did not clearify my point. My
piont is we cannot say someone( Muslim) is
in Jannah or in Hellfire. Because Allah Says
in Quran, meaning more or less, " I will
forgive any sin ,If I wants, except
'Shirk'".
So to induldge into a discussion which won't
do any good, it may harm, is a foolish act.
Why don't we discuss something which is
constructive.
Okay so you cleared your statement. But, let me give you an answer, even if Allah forgives Mu'awiyah/Yazeed, I am not going to forgive either one of them on the day of judgement. Have you heard other Quranic statments such as Be with Mazloom or Always fight for justice. Do Good things, and preach against Evils/evil people??????
By the way, you didn't answer my question in previous post, as to what do you say about Mu'awiyah/Yazeed?? Any comments??
This isn't destructive, you are just analyzing history as you have the right to do so.
We all have different opinions. I respect
your opinion about Yazid and Muawiah( R.A).
I don't want to prolong it because we will
never be able to convince each other about
this matter. As I say we always can discuss
something constructive, somthing which is
agreed upon.
I respect that you respect my opinion. As I think everyone has the right to express their opinions. If you don't wanna discuss this, that is fine. I went along this far since your views are in total contrast with mine and I had to backup what I have said about Coolio's questions. I would like to make one request though, If you are hesitant to discuss this topic, you could have said that you don't agree with what I said, instead of passing a general advice. Since obviously, general advice is just that, general. And in return you got my couple of other posts. As you can see that I have a strong opinion and I think I have a right to defend it..
I have said few things, which I think are
right. If we experss our opinion in such a
way that it serve the purpose as well do not
hurt others feelings, I think we will learn
a lot from this discussion group. I have
seen other postings, which finally ended up
someone disgrased our prophet (SAW). If we
have a little brain, we can stop that topic
far before it happened. I am not advocating
that filthy person who did it. I think he is
full of S. My point is don't give anybody
any oppertunity to do it in the future.
You can rest asure that I can never dream even in my farest imagination of ever disgracing Prophet. I held him on the highest rank. But I do have opinions about others which I have the right to disclose as well as defend as needed.
Coolio, Mu'awiyah had fought battle with Ali in which hundreds of muslims died, hence he was the one responsible for the murders of those muslims. Mu'awiyah wanted to become a king, and when Ali was murdered, he came to his capital, Shaam, and told muslims that I didn't get this leadership for Islam, I careless about Islam, all I want is for you guys to take me as a king. After he died, he left his Bastard son, Yazeed, to spread the destruction all over arab. Yazeed disgraced Kaba and so much other stuff that you wouldn't believe. His name is become so bad, that you would hardly see any muslim naming themselves, their children after him.
Oh yeah we don't wanna forget those sons of bitches. Because of these groups Muslims have been known as terrorists in the west. Are they really from the Ummayads?? I would have thought that descendants of those fagits would try to stay away from the faults of their ancestors. Instead they do the same retarded things that their ancestors did. But they are wahabis. And wahabis should be considered kafirs just like Ahmadis.
[This message has been edited by Coolio (edited 11-02-98).]
I don't know about direct descedasnts, but Sipa-i-Sahaba certainly follow the exact same trend of labeling "Shias" as Kafirs. If one would take an unbiased look at Shia minority throughout Islamic history, they can easily see that this sect has been through hell situations, so I think these sipa-i-sahaba should have at least read the history before caring out there mission of blashing Shias.
Comedians can't dare make fun of them since they know the consequence of that would be their dead body in some area or kidnape or some other illegal stuff. In Pakistan, its the rule of jungle, Whoever has the most power, wins the game (at least for that time)
You boyz got into a serious arguement here. Specially abrar & imranz.
For you guys my advice is that on a topic which has no meaning now, you guys a breaking a fard by being divided. That is not the islamic way. You are all allowed to your opinions but when these opinions become the reason for you to divide, it is better to compromise then to separate.
I think it was imranz that said he will not forgive them even if allah (swt) forgives them on the day of judgement. You have some nerve saying that cuz who the hell are you to hold a grudge against someone when allah (swt) has forgiven that person? Also, you sound like your so darn perfect but you are back biting here. Do you know the consequence of that my friend. That is equal to 36 act adultry with your mom and also eating the flesh of your muslims brother. Doesn't matter if he(back biting against the person) is dead.
Another obligatory act which you have broken is by swearing at those people. A muslim is not suppose to swear no matter what the situation is. Think about these with your mind and not judge them by your emotions.
By the way, I do not think at all, of you as being anywhere near perfect as you sound. So lighten up on your ego.
Thanks.
[This message has been edited by HomiD (edited 11-03-98).]
[This message has been edited by HomiD (edited 11-03-98).]