Thanks for your opinion, obviously we both have different opinions as to the nature of Islam. You have done your job of explaining the consequences of my actions, but afterall, I have to bear mine and you have to be responsible for yours. Discussion b/w myself and MR. Abrar had concluded, and here you came (claiming your birth right to lecture me about Islam just as Dou Takey key Mullah do) As for your info, we had concluded that discussion, so there was no need for you to start it up again. As you said yourself "you are all allowed to have different opinions". I strongly suggest you follow your own uttered words by giving freedom of saying/action/opinion to others before you make any judgemental calls and start lecturing others of what you think is right and wrong.
If you do not know about Sipah-e-Sahaba, you damn know nothing about Pakistan!! How come you made a list of top ten traitors for a country, you know nothing about it!!!! Let me ask you a question what inspired you to declare them as traitors?? Can you substantiate your views about them??
You said descendants of Umyads are in hiding can you name only one descendent of Hashmites present anywhere on this earth??? Descendent I mean direct descendent of Prophet Mohammed PBUH not Muslims like you who even do not know that who was their fifth ancestor???
Do you know that tribe "Quraish" was sub divided between two clans, Hashmites and Umyads? Umyad was the most powerful clan of the tribe "Quraish". Hadhrat Abubakr Siddique, Hadhrat Umar, and Hadhrat Usman belonged to Umyads. Only Hadhrat Ali belonged to Hashmites.
Umar Talib and Farid had already provided an excellent and unbiased information about the history of Shi and Sunni in this forum. I do not know why you have chosen this contorversial topic again which can not be resolved by stupid people like you who have either very little or biased knowledge perhaps acquired from your prejudiced parents.
Just wanted to ask you, according to your knowledge & information, Do you consider "Syeds" to be direct descedents of Prophet via his daughter "Fatima" (who was obviously from "Hashmites")??? If not, do you believe that Prophet's daughter, Fatima's generation evaporated after Hazrat Hussain ??? OR do you belief that none of the descedents of Hashmites are in existence today???
As for going back to name names of ancestors all the way back to 1st hijra of Islam, I don't know about Coolio, but many people can do that..
[This message has been edited by Imranz (edited 11-05-98).]
Zarif
Of course I know about about Sipahe Sahaba. I called them sons of bitches in my previous posts. Read them before you reply and make conclusions. In my first post I said I am a Pakistani christian who is thinking to convert to Islam like most of my family has already. I will be a shia when I convert cos Syeds which I believe are true direct descendants of the Prophet are all shia. There is no Syed who is a sunni. I know many Hashmites in Pakistan. They are the ones who inspired me to convert to Islam.
[This message has been edited by Coolio (edited 11-05-98).]
I will be highly obliged if you name any one with proof that some one is direct descendent of Prophet Mohammad. I do not believe that today's Syeds have any relation with our Prophet. It has now become fashion to become syed and call themselves as "Muatebar". There are lots and lots of fraud syeds found every where. Leave others, can you name your fifth ancestor, from where he came? whether he was believer or not? etc etc.
Coolio,
The meaning of Islam is Peace. From your thinking, you seems to be a "fitna". Before you jump to any conclusion read thoroughly about Islam. It does not matter whether you want to be Shi Muslim or Sunni Muslim. The important thing is that you should become a good Muslim, because fundamentals of Islam is same for any Muslim belonging to any sect. You use bad words for Sunni extremists, what about Shi extremists, they are doing the same thing , killing of innocent people.
I agree with Zareef, coolio is fitna,he likes to play games,he uses the Islam,sometimes he acts like he doesn't even know the meaning of subhanallah,and sometimes he comes up with so deep topic like this one in religious forum,coolio you can post whatever you want but please don't use Islam,and why are you waiting to become muslim,be now, you don't know may be next minute you die.
Thanks for your response, obviously you have a right to form your own opinion regardless of its validity and I have mine. You are right that there are many people who faked being Sayyeds but even if you asked your Learned Alim or Mentor (if he has a thorough knowledge of Islamic history particularly of Prophet's descedents throughout history)I can firmly say that they would disagree with your notion of nonexistent of Syeds today. As you asked, leaving others, My fifth Ancestor was named Mohammad Ali, that is, Imran bin Jaffar bin Farzand bin Ikraam Hussain bin Asghar Hussain bin Yaar Ali bin Mohammad Ali, who was the Hakeem of Maharaja of Bharatpoor, he came from "Khool" (new name, Ali Ghar,India)before that his father/grandfather came when Mughal king came back to India from Iran. Before Iran, my ancestors were the descedents of Zaid Shaheed who was the son of Ali, who was son of Hussain, who was son of Fatima and I hope I don't need to explain who the Fatima was.
I don't know if this Shajra thing is new to you, but I can tell you that many many muslims carry their family tree and have it linked way way back.
[This message has been edited by Imranz (edited 11-06-98).]
Imranz
i have always thought of M'uawiyah as a good sahabi. This is what my parents have always told me. They do say he did wrong by fighting against muslims but otherwise he was alright. One of my islamyat teachers also talked about him in a good way. And i beleived them without looking for the answers my self.This gave me an incentive to read history myself.
Now wasnt Hazrat Ayesha RA with M'uawiyah in that war?
Coolio
God knows why u labelled wahabis as kafir. Just coz of difference of opinion?
[This message has been edited by zainab (edited 11-06-98).]
I do not know the scope of your knowledge as to the Islamic History so I can't say anything. I do disagree with your parents as well as your teacher. I don't believe in believing biased books written by biased and unjust writers whether its on islamic history or any other matter. If you are responsible for the murders of several hundred muslims and other evil deeds, you are, in my eyes,not even good human let alone muslim or sahabi. Aayisha was not in that war b/w Muaviah and Ali, but she did fight a war against Ali called "Jang-i-Jamal" (Jamal for Camel, she rode on camel and came to fight Ali). You have a right to form your opinion and I have mine. If you think Muaviyah was good, then I guess you believe in Yazeed too. Did you parents/teacher say anything about Yazeed???
I don't know how much urdu you know, but below is one of the Ghalib's Qata:
Ye Ijteyhaad Ajab hai key ek Dushman-i-Deen
Ali sey Aa key Larey Aur Bhala kahey Ous ko
Yazeed ko tou nah tha Ijteyhaad ka Payia
Bura nah maaniyee Gar Hum Bura kahey Ous ko
Zarif
All extremists, whether shia or sunni are bastards. They misuse Islam for their own pleasure. Oh yeah, what is fitna?
Imranz
So you're saying that you are a Syed since you are descended from Fatima and then Mohammed? People shouldn't fake being syeds because that's a sin. People shouldn't lie about
being descended to Mohammed when you know you're not. If you're descended from Zaid shaheed then your last name must be Zaidi.
Naray Haidery
Ya Ali
[This message has been edited by Coolio (edited 11-06-98).]
I do not want to challenge the validity of your 'Shajra-e-nasab'. Your friend Coolio has raised a very pertinent question in her/his last post, if you can answer that question.
For me an ordinary person is more respectful who is true Muslim and practice Islam as far as possible than a so called syed who commits all sorts of sins and thinks that since he is a so called syed therefore his seven sins would be forgiven by Allah.
Your response to Zainab is incomplete and ambiguous.
Bibi Aysha requested Hadhrat Ali to take action against the killers of Hadhrat Usman (Shaeed), who were the important personalities in his army. Hadhrat Ali did not bring to task those killers due to some reasons, which triggered the war between Bibi Aysha and Hadhrat Ali. The first war is known as "Jange Jamal", which you have rightly pointed out in your post. Hadhrat Ali gave a crushing defeat to Bibi Aysha in that war. After this war, she went to Amir Muawya who was a powerful governor of Kufa, Beghdad, for help to fight against Hadhrat Ali. The second war was very tragic, about 70000 people died on both sides. By that time the government of Hadhrat Ali had become so weak that he was asked to leave the seat of Khilafat. But before the agreement was to be implemented, he was killed (Shaheed) by Kharijite while offering the morning prayers.
Ref: Women In Islam by Fatima Mernessi (She is a professor in University of Morocco). An excellent book to read .
I do not make claims that I don't possess. My last name is Zaidi, hence, the user name is Imranz as "z" for zaidi, if any of you care to look at my email address, in fact, our whole family name is Zaidi. Coolio, I don't need to lie about myself. I don't need to prove anything to you guys, the only reason I brought this up was the fact that Mr. Zarif was denying the fact of direct descedents of Prophet being in existence today. Anyway, Mr. Zarif, you did dodge my question of your belief that true Syeds are of non existence today. As my reply to Zainab, Mr. Zarif it was not ambiguous, if you are capable of thorough knowledge of Islamic history, I hope you can tell how Ayisha died and where is she buried as well as about Muaviah's burial place too?? Do you also know where Yazeed's burial place is?? I am sure all of that information is kept in Islamic history, right??