Questions for desi atheists

[Ghost14]

Re: Questions for desi atheists

@psyah

Peace Ghost14

The prophets did not need convincing and certainly were not convinced by miracles … it was reason … Muhammad (SAW) doubted his miraculous encounter with Jibreel (AS) he was not convinced by it … rather it was reason of Khadijah (AS) that gave him comfort and remove his doubts. The Qur’an addresses this response … it is an age old question … “If God exists, or if you are from God then prove it” … In one account either Abu Jahl or Abu Lahb asked Muhammad (SAW)to prove that he was a prophet by telling him what was in his hand … He picked up a rock earlier …

Muhammad (SAW) said, I’ll better than that … I’ll get what is in your hand to tell you who I am, and the rock spoke … “O so-and-so the man who you address is the Prophet of Allah (SWT)”

He threw the stone and cried magician … magician … miracles don’t prove the truth of God. There is another reason why God does not show Himself to us … In the account of Musa (AS) God revealed a glimmer of His reflecting Light on the mountains and they became rubble and the mere suggestion of that Light sent Musa (AS) unconscious. We in this world are living in a temporal system and our temporal bodies and existences cannot render sheer infinity … the attempt of doing so will be catastrophic. Our human existence makes seeing God impossible. And had we seen Him, our choice to worship Him would carry no weight … we would fall into unrelenting worship we will be unable to resist and unwilling to resist His Light and we will fall prostrate … One of the punishments on the Day of Judgement to those who were too arrogant to worship God in this life will be prevented from it on that Day … when their whole selves will be forcing them to submit, but the chains they will be in will prevent them and keep their backs straight … On that Day there will be no choice but to submit … so we should be wise and CHOOSE to submit in this life … Why ask out of arrogance show me a sign and then if you do not accept then surely the punishment should be increased … Such was the case of earlier generations they saw clear proofs but in their denial they were destroyed.

Who are we to question the Wisdom of God?

Again, you haven’t explained why prophets believed in the teachings. A cynic might say that the prophets made up the teachings as they went along. I find it convenient that God’s teachings are only ever revealed to one man.

And you should question any teachings that tell you to take a certain view on things. For example, if you are a Muslim or Christian, you automatically have to regard gays as sinners. They could be the most charitable people you’ve ever met, but the belief system you hold to be true tells you how you must view them.

It’s not arrogance to question. It’s encouraged. And if questioning is not encouraged, then religion is nothing but a cult. If I am a certain way, then according to religion, God made me this way. I’m not disrespecting anyone, but following a belief system that defines your view on many issues on life is a big step, and if this belief system is better than one I can reason for myself, then I need some proof or reason to follow.

@psyah

Then you can’t expect to see or feel God when you have already shut Him out due to arrogance … The Qur’an tells us this - read the story of Adam’s creation and how Iblis responded … Know that Allah (SWT) is upset with you when you can’t realise your own folly and it makes your further away from Him. Even logically speaking if God made us and sustains us, then what right do we have to demand anything from Him … we should be submitting and then we wil see …

Let me tell this short metaphor I thought up some years back …

**When we let the bright lights shine the stars are denied their navigation …

**The street lights although give us a lot of sight at night on the streets, but they will not tell us which way to go, they will not tell us the bearing on a greater scale … Rather the light pollution will block out the stars …

When we switch off these street lights we suddenly see more stars and they are beautiful but they also navigate - they are signs … in fact the Arabic word for “qur’anic verse is one word for star” the Qur’an is a set of constellations - beautiful and guiding lights … only when we switch off the bright street lights - our own biases, arrogances, and open ourselves up to receive guidance then we will see the stars and receive guidance … try it if you can! Just give in to the assumption one day and see what happens … can you develop a Love for God can move one step towards Him so He rushes towards you?

I have a problem with this view: “you must open your heart”. So you have to make yourself believe? How do you know what you “feel” is real? Children know there is a monster under their bed. Schizophrenics *know *that the world is out to get them. Just because it’s a reality in your head does not mean it’s real.

@McPendo

A Jew once asked the prophet why Allah created the material world? The Prophet replied, *“I was a Treasure unknown then I desired to be known so I created a creation to which I made Myself known, then they knew Me.” *

To me this suggest that God the creator of what we see and the unseen created this universe so that he maybe known. He existed throughout the eons and wanted his creation to know him and worship him. But the sort of dogmatic worship that Hindus and buddists do is only ritualistic. What God is trying to say is that “Look i exist i am here, who is it that will break away from their material bonds on this earth and search for me?” He is a treasure therefore he is not easily discovered. Many Sufis have also contemplated this and they came to conclusion that in order to discover God you must break away from the bonds which hold you down to this earth. And this is not only in Islam this is prevalent in many other Hindu spiritual techniques. In which the novice opens up his or her’s “Qi” in order to experience the ultimate truth that exists in this universe. You simply can’t experience God through Dogmatic techniques and simple recitations. What religion makes easier for us is to exist and live a “good” life in this world and prepares us a sort of default entry in to the after life as “Good people”. Now if you must experience something more mystical and spiritual you have to give up your ties to this world and be willing to show this force this power in the universe and beyond it, that you’re willing to give up everything for this mystical experience. Rationalists will never understand this because they’ve wired their brains to think God in material terms.

Rationalists don’t doubt religion because they’re materialistic, they doubt religion because there is no proof. Religious stories themselves speak of miracles that convinced the original believers and yet, all these miracles just happened to have occurred a long time ago so we just have to believe (without proof!) that they happened.

All these minor nitpicks about religion are basically all about why you believe in religion. The fact is there is no proof. We must perform philosophical and verbal gymnastics to make arguments about why religion is true.

And I don’t even care if people believe in a religion. It’s when religion dominates their life and their views on the world, and they are not open minded enough to even try to see other arguments, that religion causes problems.