^ And just what aspect of this has no Mullah "yet dared touch"?
feel free to try.. just edumacate us laymen how marrying four wives leads to acting equitably towards orphans.
^ Here's the verse, with my explanations in square brackets...
"And if you fear [when wanting to marry female orphans] that you cannot act equitably towards [such] orphans [as regards their property and dowry], then marry such [other] women as seem good to you, two and three and four [and allow those orphans to marry other men]; but if you fear that you will not do justice [between even these other women], then [marry] only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course."
What say you about the verse?
it would help if ppl would put concept of polygamy (in islam) in perspective with sunnah.
here is what i intrepet of our prophet (pbuh) having more than one wife:
- you can marry a widow
- age is not a very imp factor in marriage
- proposal for a marriage can come from either the man or the woman
- you can marry a divorcee
- status is not imp in marriage
- if one of the spouse’s die the other can marry again
…
..
now you can intrepet the concept of polygamy in any way you want to.
the following site mentions about other religions allowing polygamy. also its a good read about polygamy in islam
Re: Re: Re: Re: Questions about having FOUR wives...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
according to Islamic Shariah it is not needed....
but going by Pakistan family law u need permission from ur previous wife....
lets make it clear again, according to the Shariah no permission is needed....
and u dont need a reason to marry another woman, no justification....
[/QUOTE]
ARMughal, according to Quran we have to be just with all wives, if one of the wives does not like the situation then we arnt being just on her. In my opinion the wife's opinion counts.
No. I think that gives us the reason for why you CAN NOT marry more than one woman according to the Quran. If you can treat them equally marry them, but since Allah indicates that you can not, then you should not marry more than one. Unless you seem to think you know more than Allah SWT.
Shouldn’t twist the text to fit what’s convenient for you.
^ There's a reconciliation between the verses in that they refer to different kinds of justice
... justice in material things and time... a man knows if he can give these things equally to more than one wife... if not he shouldn't marry more than one...
... justice in terms of loving one more than another... this is something a man may not be able to control... though he loves all his wives dearly he still has a special affection for one of them... this justice a man may never be able to achieve and isn't really blameworthy for, so Allah says no matter how hard you try you can't achieve this...
If we don't reconcile then Allah is giving permission for something which can't be carried out and that's a contradiction...
gupguppy wasnt twisting the text, but it is the people who dont want to accept the ruling of allah against their personal opinions against polygamy. the rasul of allah :saw: used to say that o allah dont take me to account for what is in my heart because he used to love ayesha 
more than his other wives, but he did not give her more in in terms of any other thing such as more time or better house or any other material things.
Is this the hadith, “O Allah, this is my division concerning what I possess, so do not hold me to account concerning what Thou possesses and I do not (i.e. the heart).” (Ahmed, Abu Dawud, al Tirmidhi)? I believe this is more likely a mursal hadith (one in which the link between a successor and the Prophet [saw] is missing) as al Tirmidhi pointed out in his Sunan (see also Tafsir ibn Kathir in his commentary on surah 4:129). Mursal hadith are generally regarded as a weak category of hadith unless certain other conditions are met…
… but yes, he (saw) loved Aisha not just more than his other wives but more than anyone else… Amr ibn al Aas asked him, “Who is the most beloved person to you?” He said, “Aisha.” (al Bukhari 5:14)
^^ So wait, how is that treating all wives equally?
^ read my reply to Sahar02 a few posts above.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gupguppy: *
Is this the hadith, "O Allah, this is my division concerning what I possess, so do not hold me to account concerning what Thou possesses and I do not (i.e. the heart)." (Ahmed, Abu Dawud, al Tirmidhi)? I believe this is more likely a mursal hadith (one in which the link between a successor and the Prophet [saw] is missing) as al Tirmidhi pointed out in his Sunan (see also Tafsir ibn Kathir in his commentary on surah 4:129). Mursal hadith are generally regarded as a weak category of hadith unless certain other conditions are met...
... but yes, he (saw) loved Aisha not just more than his other wives but more than anyone else... Amr ibn al Aas asked him, "Who is the most beloved person to you?" He said, "Aisha." (al Bukhari 5:14)
[/QUOTE]
well yes i was pointing to that hadith, but if u say it is weak, so i dont point to it any more but as u said, he did love ayesha more than any one else, but he still was just in terms of physical terms such as spending equal time with all and giving them all equal share. wallah o alam
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by MiniMe: *
Islam puts a strong emphasis on Haquoq Al Abad, but no where close to Haqooq Allah. So the way to Haqouq al abad is through haqouq allah.
[/QUOTE]
I have read that you should put more emphasis on haquq-ul-ibad then to haquq-Allah. (I dont remember if it was a hades or ayat).
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by gupguppy: *
What say you about the verse?
[/QUOTE]
This verse follows from 4:2 which is NOT talking about marriage.. orphans or not.
4:2] And give to the orphans their property, and do not substitute worthless (things) for (their) good (ones), and do not devour their property (as an addition) to your own property; this is surely a great crime.
PakistaniAbroad: The subject is established.. it's ORPHANS.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lusi: *
I have read that you should put more emphasis on haquq-ul-ibad then to haquq-Allah. (I dont remember if it was a hades or ayat).
[/QUOTE]
I think thats because Allah can forgive us haquq-Allah but stuff we have done to other ppl, we have to pay for
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Questions about having FOUR wives...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Maniac: *
ARMughal, according to Quran we have to be just with all wives, if one of the wives does not like the situation then we arnt being just on her. In my opinion the wife's opinion counts.
[/QUOTE]
sounds like extrapolation to me. no i dont think being just translates into asking for their opinion. if that was meant then the Book could easily have said explicitly that thier opinion counts and is binding.
when a vague word like justice is used, it is kinda obvious that it is going to be traditionally and self-defined by the guy himself. he gets to decide what justice is.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
This verse follows from 4:2 which is NOT talking about marriage.. orphans or not.
4:2] And give to the orphans their property, and do not substitute worthless (things) for (their) good (ones), and do not devour their property (as an addition) to your own property; this is surely a great crime.
PakistaniAbroad: The subject is established.. it's ORPHANS.
[/QUOTE]
So what are you saying... that when 4:3 does go on to talk about marriage it means that if you want to marry "two, three or four" they have to all be orphans?
kind of.. I don't profess to hold all the answers but i can spot an out of place interpretation.
the Orphan Clause has to be taken into consideration when trying to understand the rest of 4:3.. so yes.. in cases of polygamy .. it must be either be about the female orphans in your 'patronage' or widows.. it's not just a "license to marry" willy nilly... we just can't detatch it or assume the context never existed.
^ So on what basis are you bringing widows into the equation?