Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

[Twinklestar]

@ninjamummy

@garamasala

Also, ninja, it is your responsibility to prevent your daughter from being treated like a piece of meat. You have to instill a sense of self-respect and self-worth in your daughter. You have to protect her from being in a position where she has to take off her hijab in a back room somewhere to be ogled by some women like cattle. This is so demeaning! If the women want to see her, have a little party and invite these women to your house. Let her dress up and and play the part of hostess. Here she will be in her comfort zone and on equal footing with these woman (except for age). You should tell her that she should consider this very much like an interview. These may potentially be her family, so you/she should politely ask questions to figure out how compatible you are:

temperament- does the future MIL let you talk? bossy, opinionated? asks questions about your daughter’s interests? is she a polite guest in your house?
how supportive they are of a career/education- are other women in the family working?
closeness among family members- do other family members come along, visit often, are talked about fondly and respectfully?
value for children- does nani/dadi gush about her grandchildren?
financial preferences- are they showy? into keeping up with the Jones? designer clothes?

Desi girls do NOT marry a boy, they marry into a family! You and your daughter should make your own list. Write it out. You should be specific and keep in mind that some things are deal-breakers and some are just minor annoyances. Analyze the pros and cons and also do istikhara.

My daughter believes 100% that when Desis marry, it is a union of 2 families. She comes with her family, he comes with his.

Here are some total ridiculous remarks: (upon hearing those comments we put an end to all further talks etc)

"Aap ka ghar chota hai, hamara beta kaha betih kah. (You house is too dang small, where will our prince sit…)

“We have one son, and five daughters, we are looking for girl who vill take care of mother when son is doing residency”

“Aap ki beti tori see healthy hai; kya bohot khana khatti hai” ((Your daughter is a bit on the heavy side, does she eat too much:)

" We are looking for hijabi girl as they are better/easier to keep under control"

Mashallah you and your husband are doing a great job! Usually people put their best foot forward during the rishta process. If this is their best behavior then you definitely don’t want to go forward.

I would not compare woman to cattle. both sides the family have right to be choosy. Most of would not marry our daughters to someone who we don’t consider financially unstae and and unattrActive. Spouses should feel physical attraction towards each other.t. That is def. important. Of course pure physical states traction is not the be all and end all but it def matters more in the beginning.

[krmaml1]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

Like another poster said, *Aap un kay liye accha sa Maulana kyun nahi dhoond latay.
*
Non Mullah guys are shameless and want to see their prospective brides heads and faces bared and undignified. Why would you want to marry such shameless guys?

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

If you want to be so religious, maybe learn about the religion. Prophet (SAW) was ok with a woman removing her niqaab and showing her face to a suitor so he could figure out if he wanted to marry her.

Attraction is a huge issue. What if she has hair that makes her look awful, and that makes him less attracted to her? You want to wait till AFTER THE WEDDING for the couple to figure this out?

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

There is a hadith where the prophet told a man that yes, he has the right to see the woman before marrying her - the woman in question was completely covered, face included.

That negates the little post above from some Q and A advice forum. Those responses are not based in evidence.

[Sara516]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

@PyariCgudia

There is a hadith where the prophet told a man that yes, he has the right to see the woman before marrying her - the woman in question was completely covered, face included.

That negates the little post above from some Q and A advice forum. Those responses are not based in evidence.

yeah but the daughter in the post is wearing hijab and not niqab, so her face is visible.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

It’s the same concept. We can even argue that hadith is testimony that the niqab isn’t a necessary item of clothing if it can be discarded for a suitor. Point is, the prophet was ok with some exposure to make an important life decision.

Anyone who denies that appearance matters is being unrealistic. If a guy sees your daughter’s hair…guess what? BIG WHOOP.

[SaeedinPakistan]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

@PyariCgudia

If you want to be so religious, maybe learn about the religion. Prophet (SAW) was ok with a woman removing her niqaab and showing her face to a suitor so he could figure out if he wanted to marry her.

Attraction is a huge issue. What if she has hair that makes her look awful, and that makes him less attracted to her? You want to wait till AFTER THE WEDDING for the couple to figure this out?

@PyariCgudia

There is a hadith where the prophet told a man that yes, he has the right to see the woman before marrying her - the woman in question was completely covered, face included.

That negates the little post above from some Q and A advice forum. Those responses are not based in evidence.

@PyariCgudia

It’s the same concept. We can even argue that hadith is testimony that the niqab isn’t a necessary item of clothing if it can be discarded for a suitor. Point is, the prophet was ok with some exposure to make an important life decision.

Anyone who denies that appearance matters is being unrealistic. If a guy sees your daughter’s hair…guess what? BIG WHOOP.

How about providing some references. Links to authentic religious websites would do.

[Captain_Obvious]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

@ninjamummy

I have no idea what to do here. My daughter wears hijab, as do I.
Someone comes to see your daughter ie rishta and have obviously seen her wearing hijab. What to do when the other party requests pics of her without hijab to show to the ’ guy" or other folks? Or even asks that she remove her hijab so their son can see what she looks like ? I have spoken with family (Ami) and friends, but way too many differing opinions.

This rishta stuff is new for me, and driving me insane. Why is it so complicated and just so demeaning?

It looks like you’ve made your decision. However, what I would say in this type of situation is that once you’re serious enough about the rishta, you can have the guy see her in person once it gets to that point. I’d also be hesitant about sending a daughter’s picture, which they would want not only to show to the potential guy but also to other people.

[Hmmna]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

@PyariCgudia

There is a hadith where the prophet told a man that yes, he has the right to see the woman before marrying her - the woman in question was completely covered, face included.

That negates the little post above from some Q and A advice forum. Those responses are not based in evidence.

please provide a source for the Hadith I have not heard of this one, it would be important to add to our knowledge from sahh ahadis

and I would b vey wary of someone so superficial. What if the woman gained weight afterwards or something else?

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

It’s not about superficiality. You should find some pleasure in someone’s appearance.

And yeah if she gains weight…then she prolly needs to lose it. You can call that superficial. I call it taking care of the body God loaned you.

[majesty]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

@PyariCgudia

It’s the same concept. We can even argue that hadith is testimony that the niqab isn’t a necessary item of clothing if it can be discarded for a suitor. Point is, the prophet was ok with some exposure to make an important life decision.

Anyone who denies that appearance matters is being unrealistic. If a guy sees your daughter’s hair…guess what? BIG WHOOP.

For those who do hijab it is a BIG issue. Face nikab is not farz so that makes sense in allowing to remove it. Citing this to draw a conclusion that it would allow a woman to undo something farz is illogical.

[canadiandesigirl]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

@Aukhan

It’s easy find a like-minded mullah for her.

Yea, lets put labels now on a person who is comfortable with a hijabi wife.

PCG, honestly illogical like the poster above said.

[Hmmna]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

@PyariCgudia

It’s not about superficiality. You should find some pleasure in someone’s appearance.

And yeah if she gains weight…then she prolly needs to lose it. You can call that superficial. I call it taking care of the body God loaned you.

Well as I said before It shows a difference in values. Hijab may not be important to you but it is to others. I have refused proposals bcz they wanted pics where I was laughing, sitting demurely, with hijab and without! And this from people who came for the proposal bcz I was hijabi in the first place.

I would never agree to marry someone who is not of the same mind set that I am.

after my marriage my looks have taken a hit, I have had nasty outbreaks of acne, and bcz of ongoing hormonal issues I have put on weight, my husband is still there and still attracted to me thank God I dnt repulse him now I am no longer as pretty as I was.

And PCG u still didn’t quote your hadis.

anyways I am out of this discussion as the OP no longer needs our input.

[ninjamummy]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

Everyone has a different thought process, and the posts here are indicative of that.

My daughter says that in a traditional rishta, everyone is on their best behaviour, and one never gets to know the other person,his family, their true likes and dislikes, who they really are. She finds it demeaning if 20 questions consist of what she can cook,if she can cook, what her domestic capabilities are, or that since she wears hijab she must have no faults, and that she in incapable of thinking/or doing anything on her own. (sorry, but my DD is in a Masters program in a very highly competitive field). It is marketing in the end. She is worried as a few of her friends are married and some already divorced, most marriages were of their own liking, and they are not yet 25 years old.

She does not have an issue sitting with the ‘guys’ family(females only) without her hijab only if/and when talks become more serious. I spoke with one of our Imams who is is non Desi.and has quite a few daughters. His advice was that she has the right to observe her hijab , until talks are more serious, as he himself took that stance with his daughters. My daughter has the right to that decision, and we respect her for that, in no circumstances will we push it beyond her boundaries.

For those who have an issue with hijab, am sorry you feel that way. No need to put someone down for their beliefs. As parents we are not looking for a ‘mullah’ for her, we are looking for someone who will be her life partner, through thick and then, through better and worse, who will respect her for her thoughts and beliefs and vice versa. not too much to ask , is it? Obviously it does not always work out that way, but one can hope.

Anyways, this topic will not just benefit me, but countless others who are/were in the same dilemma.

Thanks..

[Captain_Obvious]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

@ninjamummy

Everyone has a different thought process, and the posts here are indicative of that.

My daughter says that in a traditional rishta, everyone is on their best behaviour, and one never gets to know the other person,his family, their true likes and dislikes, who they really are. She finds it demeaning if 20 questions consist of what she can cook,if she can cook, what her domestic capabilities are, or that since she wears hijab she must have no faults, and that she in incapable of thinking/or doing anything on her own. (sorry, but my DD is in a Masters program in a very highly competitive field). It is marketing in the end. She is worried as a few of her friends are married and some already divorced, most marriages were of their own liking, and they are not yet 25 years old.

She does not have an issue sitting with the ‘guys’ family(females only) without her hijab only if/and when talks become more serious. I spoke with one of our Imams who is is non Desi.and has quite a few daughters. His advice was that she has the right to observe her hijab , until talks are more serious, as he himself took that stance with his daughters. My daughter has the right to that decision, and we respect her for that, in no circumstances will we push it beyond her boundaries.

For those who have an issue with hijab, am sorry you feel that way. No need to put someone down for their beliefs. As parents we are not looking for a ‘mullah’ for her, we are looking for someone who will be her life partner, through thick and then, through better and worse, who will respect her for her thoughts and beliefs and vice versa. not too much to ask , is it? Obviously it does not always work out that way, but one can hope.

Anyways, this topic will not just benefit me, but countless others who are/were in the same dilemma.

Thanks..

I wish you and your family the best with this process. May Allah make it easy for you to find a good match for your daughter. Ameen.

[S_and_S]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

I think that people who are saying these families have a right to see your daughter, is absurd. It’s not even about religious sentiment but in my opinion more about ones self respect and dignity. You are doing an amazing job based on all of the things you have posted already. I do not find this normal what so ever. If a guy who wants to marry a hijabi but feels he should be able to see her before he choses to marry her is insane, there is no respect in my opinion in his mind for why the girl is in hijab in the first place. I don’t disagree that attraction is an important factor but someone who is marrying a girl with hijab should already know he won’t be able to see her till the decisions are made. This is one of things that comes with the territory, it’s the same thing as marrying your daughter into a family thinking they are good people only to find out regretful things about them later. It’s the same thing.

Hijab or not, once two people start interacting they know whether or there is a mutual attraction there based on those interactions. I have family friends who have married girls with hijab and never once heard this come up, none of my husbands fiends have ever asked for this, I feel if they are they shouldn’t be asking for a girl with hijab in the first place.

[krmaml1]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

@majesty

For those who do hijab it is a BIG issue. Face nikab is not farz so that makes sense in allowing to remove it. Citing this to draw a conclusion that it would allow a woman to undo something farz is illogical.

If according to her belief doing hijab is* farz* then its totally her problem. Not the guys problem.

[Cansu]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

@krmaml1

If according to her belief doing hijab is* farz* then its totally her problem. Not the guys problem.

How enlightening!!

Ever heard of awra. According to fiqh a woman’s awra is everything except her hands, face and feet while a man’s awra is everything from his navel to his knees (The Fiqh of Covering One’s Nakedness (Awra): A Detailed Explanation*).

So the next time any suitor asks a girl to take off her hijab and show her awra she can just ask him to take off his boxers. After all if he is so keen on seeing her awra he should be comfortable with showing his too.

Peace

[garamasala]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

kr and pcg, this conversation is not really about hijab. If we go there we are going off topic (hijab tends to do that a lot). It is about compatibility. Guys that share the same level of religious conservatism and practice as the OP will NOT ask to see the girls hijab-free (I only speak from a Hanafi perspective). More importantly, both the OP and her daughter find this distasteful. Can you agree that someone’s religious commitment and practice are a huge part of who they are and finding someone that is compatible on this level is important? I have family members who practice Islam in different ways. Hijab being one aspect. Another, gender neutral, example would be eating zabiha meat. When recommending someone as a potential spouse, I would consider the things that they value. Because regardless of how conservative or practicing anyone here is, I hope we can agree that it’s best to go into a marriage with a partner that values and shares your beliefs.

My argument is not from an Islamic perspective as much as it is from a feminist perspective. The OP and her daughter aren’t in Taliban controlled Pakistan. They freely choose hijab as a way to express their religious beliefs. That just happens to be a preference on their part. If you want to discuss finer points of hijab, start another thread! Yes, their daughter won’t die if she shows her hair, but if that’s something that is fundamentally against her belief system, why should she? BTW, if someone forced or pressured my non-hijabi family members to put on hijab or forced someone to grow a beard, I would be just as vocal in opposing that.

As a side note, It may surprise you to learn that many men have been plenty attracted to women and have even asked for their hand in marriage without ever seeing a strand of their hair. Hope you aren’t too shocked! Guy’s families who want a wife who is as ‘pure as the driven snow’ but aren’t as practicing as the OP’s family tend to ask for hijab to be taken off. They don’t really value the beliefs that led the OP and daughter to a life-long commitment to wear hijab and are therefore incompatible with the OP’s family.
More men for kr and pcg!

[krmaml1]

Re: Question in regards to rishta pics and hijab

@Cansu

How enlightening!!

Ever heard of awra. According to fiqh a woman’s awra is everything except her hands, face and feet while a man’s awra is everything from his navel to his knees (The Fiqh of Covering One’s Nakedness (Awra): A Detailed Explanation*).

So the next time any suitor asks a girl to take off her hijab and show her awra she can just ask him to take off his boxers. After all if he is so keen on seeing her awra **he should be comfortable with showing his too.
**
Peace

I would happily remove my boxers but I would inspect the girls genitalia as well.
You thought you are smart by equating uncovering of hair to taking off the boxers.