Question for all

I am a shia and I have a simple question for all sunnis out there.

It’s not intended to offend anyone so please think about this logically, I just have a question and I would like an answer to it. I know all sunnis wonder how shias can believe what they believe, and all shias (including me) wonder how sunnis can believe what they believe.

There are certain things I am really shocked about, totally confused about how a normal sane person can not understand certain things and that is why I am asking all sunnis to please answer this question.

If I say about this gup shup website, that “if I log out of this website I will go to a website that is informative” this means that I am accusing this website of not being informative RIGHT, if this site was informative as well, and I still used this sentence then it won’t make any sense and it will make me look like someone who’s not familiar with laws of linguistics.

Now the question in Quran surah Tehreem ayat # 5

"It may be, if he divorced you, that God will give him in exchange consorts better than you,- who submit (their wills), who believe, who are devout, who turn to God in repentance, who worship (in humility), who travel (for Faith) and fast, - previously married or virgins. "

This ayat is about Hifza and Ayesha (all sunni scholars agree)

Now if God is saying clearly in Quran that if Rasool Allah divorced them God will give in exchange wives that submit their wills (so Ayesha and Hifza didn’t submit) wives that believe (Ayesha and Hifza were non-believers) and so on and so forth.

I know all sunnis won’t agree with me, but can you explain it to me that what’s wrong with my logic?

One more thing I know a lot of you will get upset and start questioning shia beliefs but lets discuss this first please, and sort this out for me.

Re: Question for all

^ when Allah says in the Quran that "ahle-bait, Allah wishes to purify u and take away dirtiness from u", does it mean that the ahl-e-bait r not pure and have dirtiness????

Allah has told u that the wives of the Prophet (saw) r "mothers of the believers" and ur logic says that they r non-believers....
do u wish to challenge Allah's words or do u wish to say ur logic is better than His????

think 1000 times before saying anything against the wives of the Prophet (saw)....
no one likes to hear bad about his wife, and if ur case if presented before the Prophet (saw) on the day of judgement, and he gets angry over u for calling his wives non-believers, what do u think shall then save u from Allah????

Re: Question for all

yes armughal, the ayah does state that Allah was performing the purification and the cleansing, and if those acts werent done for no reason, then the previous state was impure and with uncleanliness. If the verse quoted is about the two wives mentioned I dont see you refuting his argument with this, because you're not making much of a point here. Neither is your point about the Mother of the Believers valid, because in Islam if you find something unislamic about your mother, you are not supposed to abide by it. And finally your third argument is also a non-sequitur, because if he believes certain of the wives of the Prophet to be in disbelief, obviously he is also believing that the Prophet would not side with a disbeliever over a believer on the day of judgement.

I am unaware of this surah's context Curious One (i am also shia). Could you give the basis for saying all sunnies agree its about Bibis Ayesha and Hafsa?

Re: Question for all

Damn!! U good Muslim man....Belonging to a Sunni family myslef, I find your views about Islam to be thoughtful and well researched. Keep it up....

Re: Question for all

gracias :-)

Re: Question for all

.

:eek: deja vu!:mudhosh:

Re: Question for all

Google it bro, its in all sunni and shia tafaseers.

Here is translatoins of ayat # 3 and 4 in same sora, (Tehreem),

3. And when the prophet secretly communicated a piece of information to one of his wives-- but when she informed (others) of it, and Allah made him to know it, he made known part of it and avoided part; so when he informed her of it, she said: Who informed you of this? He said: The Knowing, the one Aware, informed me.

4. If you both turn to Allah, then indeed your hearts are already inclined (to this); and if you back up each other against him, then surely Allah it is Who is his Guardian, and Jibreel and -the believers that do good, and the angels after that are the aiders

After this is the ayat that I quoted in my orignal question. All school of thoughts agree that the two wives mentioned in these ayats are Ayesha and Hifza.

Now for people who are getting upset I just ask of you to please correct me and tell me where am I going wrong? Ok if you wonder how can I say Ayesha and Hifza were non believer then tell me exactly what is it that God is saying in that ayat. I am not forcing my views on anyone, just asking a questoin, and if you have better understanding of this issue then please enlighten me.

Re: Question for all

Let’s say I have a car. The car is fast, powerful, comes with GPS navigation, all time 4WD, and a 6 year warranty. But it’s automatic suspension sometimes lock up.

I would go to the dealer and tell him to give me a car that has an automatic suspension that actually works or fix the problem.

As a result I would get something which is fast, powerful, comes with GPS navigation, all time 4WD, and a 6 year warranty.

So, if I changed it, does my previous car stop remaining a car which was fast, powerful, comes with GPS navigation, all time 4WD, and a 6 year warranty or is my new one different than my previous car? Do we stop calling it a car?

I wrote before and will write again. It is not a person of nominal or average piety before Allah :swt: that He would mention them in the QUran and their innocence. They must have a tremendous amount of character and piety in them to garner a mention from Allah :swt: in the Quran…

The people mentioned in the Quran are of two types. Either they are Zaalimun of the highest order that Allah :swt: wished to make them an example for humanity or they were the highest in piety that Allah :swt: wished to make them an example for humanity.

Bibi Ayesha :razi:'s mention is of the latter type in which her innocence has been made known for the humanity. It was because of her piety that she garners an attestation of purity in the Quran.

So, what shocks, confuses and confounds me, is the fact that Shias would believe that Ayesha :razi: the mother of the believers, who has been mentioned in the Quran, would be taken by them as a Munafiq or a Faasiq.

How many Imams are mentioned in the Quran?

Re: Question for all

Prophet Muhammad (SAW) never divorced Aisha (RA) or Hafsa (RA). Yes, he (SAW) was upset with the two; however he decided not to divorce them and eventually forgave them.

What seems to be the trouble now?

Re: Question for all

correct me if i am wrong,
but her innocence is proved regarding the charges against her for a particular crime
it dosent mean that she couldnt ever go wrong,Infact her other mention in the Quran which is a reprimand proves that.

Re: Question for all

for those of who dont know

I dont want to divert this thraed but what happened?
who got divorced and why?

Re: Question for all

Here’s what I could find in Tafsir ibn Kathir:

Ref: Allah censures His Prophet for Prohibiting Himself from what He has allowed for Him In the Book of Vows

Re: Question for all

NO ONE got divorced.

Note to everyone, this better not turn into bashing Aisha (RA) or Hafsa (RA) thread, else I'm going to lock it down.

Re: Question for all

Shias dislike her mostly because of what happened during the caliphate of Uthman(ra) and after that.

Re: Question for all

Yes this is the kind of response I was looking for which actually address the issue I raised. Thanks for your reply lajawab.

Now while I appreciate the fact that you responded, I don’t agree with it completely.

In the above scenario for one you won’t be so upset with the dealer that you pbulish it in a newspaper ( while the ayat is in quran). Second you would go over to the dealer and

You won’t repeat the whole list of features and operational instruments and gadgets your previous car had, you will only list the faulty ones that weren’t operational. Since you are threatening to return your car “as Allah threathend with divorce” you will only mention the flaws in your car and not list all the items that you desire in your new car (unless they were not included in your old car and hence they can be identified as flaws in your old car.

Say I work for a company that is big on following a certain dress code. Now if I don’t follow the dress code but have all other qualities of a good worker including (hard worker, committed etc) and my boss threatens me that If I fire you I will hire someone who adheres to the company derss code, won’t mention that who is also a hard worker since I already have that trait.

In this ayat in question when the wives of the propehts are mentioned is god praising them or expressing his annoyance with them?? now which type of people would you like to include them in??

Re: Question for all

God was upset as well, as indicated by the ayats, and mentioned it "the incident" which annoyed and expressed his annoyance,in quran, if God forgave them as well, is that mentioned in quran ???? that God forgave them over this incident??

Re: Question for all

^^

Upset? Where in the Ayah do you see that Allah :swt: is upset?

The Holy Prophet :saw: may have been upset at something and consulted Allah :swt: for something, but it’s certainly a far stretch of your imagination to believe that Allah :swt:Himself would be upset at them…

It’s more like an advice to the Holy Prophet :saw: and his wives more than aything…

Re: Question for all

The Curious One, how about you first read the material I've posted out of Tafsir Ibn Kathir?

Allah (SWT) left it upon Prophet Muhammad (SAW) to decide as to whether to divorce the two or not.

Re: Question for all

One only threatens one when is upset, and God did threaten with divorce.

If it was a trivial matter of no significance do you think it will be in quran??

Re: Question for all

yes you are right I never questioned whether prophet divorced them or not, my oringal question was about how it says that God will give in exchange wives that believe.