salam
only submitters reject the second part of kalima and they do not accept hadiths or suuna.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/
[This message has been edited by iqra_786 (edited November 23, 2001).]
what about shias kalima? i have researched it loooot of time...how? by asking shia kids, as i know all adult shias are master liars about their faith, cuz they know if waht they believe in is revealed they will be declared kafirs. they know that too. any way, there was this 10 yr old kid in our school bus in khi. and i knew he was shia cuz there was a whole big flag thing on his house flying constantly. i asked him to recite the kalima, he recited the regular la ilaha illa mohammed ur rasool ulllah, but then i said no, recite the real kalima, and he was kinds shocked and said we are shais. and i said yes recited ur kalima and he recited la ilaha illa mohammed ur rasool ullah ali u wali ullah wa khalifa wa bil akhir or something like that. and my best friend was also shia and i confirmed it with him. so now if we are debating the name of mohammed SAW in the kalima, waht about shias???? they have the name of ali RA...knida amazing rite?
Good point Thandy Mazaq..
Let's follow the logic with which we eliminate Shia's kalima as 'wrong'.
Ali WAS one of the Shabah. He was the Last Caliph too.
So adding his name is not 'factually' wrong.
However you maintain it's wrong to add it in a kalima? What compels you to arrive at that conclusion??
iqra,
I wouldn't dwell on the site you posted. It doesn't even know the difference between a Prophet and a Messenger.
The site conveniently ignores that Qur'an itself places an emphasis on numbers. The Universe is based on Mathematics.
Qur'an also mentions stars many times and Allah swears by the stars too.. Today's common 'Islamic' consensus would be not to 'study' stars.
As far as I know 'submitters' are not 'followers' of some person. He couldn't be less important in the equation. Islam means to submit (and not 'peace' as most sub-continent deenyaat books teach us). So all Muslims are submitters.
If you believe in Allah. You are a submitter. Plain and simple.
I also know these submitters don't 'disregard' sunnah. They only question the authenticity of the books that have reached us detailing the Prophet's life and hence maintain that it's safe to stay with the Qur'an whose authenticity is unparalleled and Allah Himself promised to keep it safe.
Also the Prophet's life was in any case a manifestation of the Qur'an. He conducted his affairs around what was revealed to him in the Qur'an, which immediately exposes the many lies attributed to him in the history books we received which narrate stories in which they accuse the prophet of acting and saying things totally different from what is mentioned in the Qur'an.
Allah Knows Best
These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?(45:6)
[quote]
Originally posted by ThandyMazaq:
*what about shias kalima? i have researched it loooot of time...how? by asking shia kids, as i know all adult shias are master liars about their faith, cuz they know if waht they believe in is revealed they will be declared kafirs. they know that too. any way, there was this 10 yr old kid in our school bus in khi. and i knew he was shia cuz there was a whole big flag thing on his house flying constantly. i asked him to recite the kalima, he recited the regular la ilaha illa mohammed ur rasool ulllah, but then i said no, recite the real kalima, and he was kinds shocked and said we are shais. and i said yes recited ur kalima and he recited la ilaha illa mohammed ur rasool ullah ali u wali ullah wa khalifa wa bil akhir or something like that. and my best friend was also shia and i confirmed it with him. so now if we are debating the name of mohammed SAW in the kalima, waht about shias???? they have the name of ali RA...knida amazing rite? *
[/quote]
salam
shia kalima is exactly the same as sunni kalima, the kalima under which we all muslim unite. Its recommended to shais to add the extra line at the end ‘Ali is the wali of Allah’. Similary in their adhan its recommended to add Alis name as well.
salam
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
*The site conveniently ignores that Qur'an itself places an emphasis on numbers. The Universe is based on Mathematics. *
if I remember correctly, Submitters believes a couple of the verses of the Quran to be false, because of the number 19 proof! But Allah Himself protects the Quran! To say that two of the verses should be removed is rejection of the Quran, which again is the rejection of one of the fundametal beliefs of a muslim.
*As far as I know 'submitters' are not 'followers' of some person. He couldn't be less important in the equation. Islam means to submit (and not 'peace' as most sub-continent deenyaat books teach us). So all Muslims are submitters. *
islam means submission towars the creator Allah which brings peace.
*If you believe in Allah. You are a submitter. Plain and simple. *
if u believe in Allah u r muslim, very plain and simple. U could also be a submitter to satan, submitter to certain person, submitter to ideology, submitter ot culture etc depending on whowot u submit.
*I also know these submitters don't 'disregard' sunnah. They only question the authenticity of the books that have reached us detailing the Prophet's life and hence maintain that it's safe to stay with the Qur'an whose authenticity is unparalleled and Allah Himself promised to keep it safe. *
we all msulim agree with this. We all need to question of authority of the books. And Quran is the only sources that protected by Allah (swt) and whichever contradict quran we reject that.
*Also the Prophet's life was in any case a manifestation of the Qur'an. He conducted his affairs around what was revealed to him in the Qur'an, which immediately exposes the many lies attributed to him in the history books we received which narrate stories in which they accuse the prophet of acting and saying things totally different from what is mentioned in the Qur'an. *
totally agreed! There are hadith which were made up by enemy of islam and attributed lies abt them, reducing them to the level of original human being as well as saying they commits sin, forget to pray etc etc.
wassalam
[al-Ahzab 33:40.1] Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Apostle of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.
[Al-Imran 3:19.8] Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allah then surely Allah is quick in reckoning.
[al-Ma'idah 5:3.107] Forbidden to you is that which dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine, and that on which any other name than that of Allah has been invoked, and the strangled (animal) and that beaten to death, and that killed by a fall and that killed by being smitten with the horn, and that which wild beasts have eaten, except what you slaughter, and what is sacrificed on stones set up (for idols) and that you divide by the arrows; that is a transgression. This day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear Me. This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Tranlslation by M.H.Shakir.
[This message has been edited by MyStiCaL_MisS (edited November 24, 2001).]
Miss, it'd be nice if you'd add something from your point of view to forward the argument. Do you think the Kalma recited today is correct? incorrect? no opinion?
qalima is correct.
but since mr.Aahmed doesn't want any hadith, theres no point arguing.
Cuz the hadith which is known as 'ummul hadith'(mother of all hadith') makes it all clear.
im not a scholar, cant say more.
allah alim.
All is the Beloved and the lover is a veil
The Beloved is alive and the lover is dead (RUMI)
[quote]
Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
**Good point Thandy Mazaq..
As far as I know 'submitters' are not 'followers' of some person. He couldn't be less important in the equation. Islam means to submit (and not 'peace' as most sub-continent deenyaat books teach us). So all Muslims are submitters. **
[/quote]
Submiting to God is a worthwhile pursuit I think. It's very hard for humans to live up to God's commands.
Why can't a submitter and a follower = the same in Gods eyes?
I know close to nothing about Islam or most Major religions. Only what I hear/feel in my heart when I pray. Does god think less of someone who submits to his rule? I think not. Nor do I believe he thinks less of his followers.
Hypocrits?? Aren't most all Humans hypocrits? Say one thing..do the other? Do as I say? not as I do? seems like a fact for a human being...this is why I like your Islamic idea of jihad (as a struggle) Jihad is (in this respect) a very honest view of human life.
Let's recap.
aahmed has a question. why do we take the Prophet's name next to Allah in a kalima.
His argument that what about previous messengers? How would their Kalima go?
There hasn't been much factual evidence provided in response. People have argued that the Prophet Muhammad was held in high esteem by Allah. I agree (obviously). But that is no argument to make a kalima not present in the Qur'an or instructed by Allah.
Many have outrightly declared Mr. aahmed a kaafir if he does not add the second part of the Kalima. I still don't see any proof from them though.
It would help if people will post their sources which tell them to recite this particular Kalima.
The 'Shahada' is 'bearing witness'.
Here's what Allah has to say about bearing witness to his oneness and the Prophet being an apostle of Allah.
(Al-Imran 3:18) ALLAH bears witness that there is no god but HE **- and also do the angels and those possessed of knowledge, maintaining justice; **there is no god but HE, the Mighty, the Wise.
Here Allah gives us the foundation of belief. There is no God but HE (la ilaha illa howa)
(an-Nisa' 4:166) But ALLAH bears witness by means of the revelation which HE has sent down to thee, that HE has sent it down full of HIS knowledge, and the angels also bear witness; and sufficient is ALLAH as a Witness.
Allah doesn't NEED us to be a witness. Angels bear witness, and men of knowledge too BUT ALLAH as witness is sufficient.
What about bearing witness to the Prophethood of Muhammad?
[an-Nisa' 4:79] Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from God; but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thy (own) soul. and We have sent thee as an apostle to (instruct) mankind. And enough is God for a witness.
Once again Allah tells us that HE sent down Muhammad as a Prophet and HE himself is enough for a witness.
Now ALLAH also used this 'bearing witness to the Prophet' phenomenon as a whistle blower for the hypocrites.
[Muhammad 47:30] And if WE pleased, WE could show them to thee so that thou shouldst know them by their marks. And thou shalt, surely, recognize them by the tone of their speech. And ALLAH knows your deeds.
(al-Munafiqun 63:1) When the Hypocrites come to thee, they say, "We bear witness that thou art indeed the Apostle of God (nashadu innaka larasul ullah) " And God knoweth that thou art indeed His Apostle, and God beareth witness that the Hypocrites are indeed liars.
(al-Munafiqun 63:2) They have made their oaths a screen (for their misdeeds): thus they obstruct (men) from the Path of God: truly evil are their deeds.
[al-Munafiqun 63:3] That is because they believed, then they rejected Faith: So a seal was set on their hearts: therefore they understand not.
The matter was not accepting the Prophet as God's apostle, but of rejecting Faith. What Faith? That there is no God but ALLAH. The hypocrites were only hiding behind the screen of an 'oath' bearing witness to the Prophet as God's apostle, for which Allah has already said that HE is enough as a witness.
Further clues why Allah only wants His name ALONE to be mentioned.
[al-Jinn 72:18]** "And the places of worship are for God (alone): So invoke not any one along with God;**
For someone with a Kalima which adds the Prophet's name, and then uses it in salaat, this poses an issue doesn't it?
And when Allah wants ONLY His name.. what do his devotees do instead?
[al-Jinn 72:19] "Yet when the Devotee of God stands forth to invoke Him, they just make round him a dense crowd."
[al-Jinn 72:20] Say: I only call upon my Lord, and I do not associate anyone with Him.
How clear will it get? Do NOT associate ANYONE with Allah. For those following the Prophet's Sunnah, this should be the last verse they need. If the Prophet always called upon Allah by never associating ANYONE with him, why do you do it?
If you are foaming at the mouth by now and ready to declare me a kaafir and stone me to death.. I understand.
(az-Zumar 39:45) And when Allah alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who believe not in the Hereafter are repelled, and when those beside Him are mentioned, behold! they are glad.
It's late at night so I'll continue tomorrow Inshallah with Allah's chosen way to declare one's faith.
These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?(45:6)
[This message has been edited by PakistaniAbroad (edited November 25, 2001).]
The kalima, also known as the shahada is the first pillar of Islam. It has been so from the first day.
Before I start my reply, I reproduce a passage from a reply in islam-qa.com.
The second part of the Shahada “i.e., Wa Ash-hadu anna Mohammadan abduhu wa rasuluh” means that Prophet Mohammad (Peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) is the servant and chosen messenger of Allah. No one must have two opinions about this matter. In fact the Muslim has to obey the commands of the Prophet (Peace and blessing of Allah be upon him), to believe him in what he has said, to practise his teachings, to avoid what he has forbidden, and to worship Allah alone according to the message revealed to him, for all the teachings of the Prophet were in fact revelation and inspirations conveyed to him by Allah.
There are many reasons for the shahada to include the second part. The evidence does not have to come from the Qur'an, it can come from the second primary source, ie., the Sunnah. The sunnah confirms that this is the shahada from the beginning and is the first step the person takes to confirm that he is a Muslim.
First of all we need to realise that there is a big difference betweeen Rasool Allah and the other Prophets. He came for mankind while they came for their people.
Secondly, belief in the Message through his Sunnah is incomprehensible, as the above passage states, if the shahada does not include belief that he is the Messenger of Allah.
Thirdly, to doubt or create doubts about a thing of such paramount importance, it is not sufficient to just raise a question. We need to come up with some daleel to prove our point. It is befitting non-believers to raise such arguments on basis of logic. It does not suit a believer to raise questions about basic issues. These are things that we have to accept from the evidence we have been given.
Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.
Two points in response.
Firstly, Sunnah is as much a part of Islam as Qur’an. Anybody who denies this is not able to be a Muslim and raises many questions about himself/herself.
Secondly, the ayat quoted as evidence is an absolutely incorrect interpretation. It talks about the hypocrites and says that when they say the shahada, they are actually not telling the truth. It does not say that the people saying the shahada are the hypocrites.
Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.
"invoking anyone with Allah", "joining anyone with Allah" which makes up the "shirk" is strictly forbidden and regarded as "un-forgivable" sin. when Muslims say the kalima "la ilaaha il-Allah Muhammad-ur rasool-ul-Allah", how does it make up for "invoking anyone" or "joining anyone". No Muslim ask Mohammed PBUH for his sins to be forgiven, no Muslim asks Mohammed PBUH for his 'rizk' to be expanded, no Muslim uses Mohammad PBUH to pass his 'requests' (prayers) to Allah.
Why do people think of kalima in present form as "shirk"? "joining with Allah"? "invoking anyone with Allah" etc?
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?
[quote]
We need to come up with some daleel to prove our point. It is befitting non-believers to raise such arguments on basis of logic. It does not suit a believer to raise questions about basic issues. These are things that we have to accept from the evidence we have been given.
[/quote]
So where is your 'daleel'?
All you've expressed is your own ideas. where is the proof?
If you want people to 'accept from the evidence', at least present the evidence.
It doesn't behoove intellegent human beings to blindly follow their forefathers and not think on their own.
(Luqman 31:21) And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has revealed, they say: Nay, we follow that on which we found our fathers. What! though the Shaitan calls them to the chastisement of the burning fire!
These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?(45:6)
[quote]
Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
** So where is your 'daleel'?
All you've expressed is your own ideas. where is the proof?
If you want people to 'accept from the evidence', at least present the evidence.
It doesn't behoove intellegent human beings to blindly follow their forefathers and not think on their own.
(Luqman 31:21) And when it is said to them: Follow what Allah has revealed, they say: Nay, we follow that on which we found our fathers. What! though the Shaitan calls them to the chastisement of the burning fire!
**
[/quote]
I am sorry, this is not my idea. And, it is not my forefathers. This is the belief of the Muslims from inception of Islam.
When you raise doubts about a fundamental, you have to bring daleel. Not the one who is reproducing the fundamental.
The kalimah tayyaba, the shahada, whatever you call it is in all books of Islam. This is the first time I have heard of an ahmadee raising inconceivable doubts and then a person who professes to be learned in Islam supporting with flimsy arguments.
It is very easy to misqquote ayaat, but very dangerous as you are blaming people for something they are not doing.
Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.
[quote]
The kalimah tayyaba, the shahada, whatever you call it is in all books of Islam.
[/quote]
Good. so it'll be very easy for you to produce the 'source'. I'm waiting.
[quote]
and then a person who professes to be learned in Islam supporting with flimsy arguments.
[/quote]
If Qur'anic verses are flimsy arguments, then sorry, I don't have anything more reliable to offer as proof.
[quote]
It is very easy to misqquote ayaat, but very dangerous as you are blaming people for something they are not doing
[/quote]
once again.. tell me which ayat is misquoted. Bring solid proof as argument to the discussion table, your personal displeasure is hardly making any impression.
[quote]
Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
Good. so it'll be very easy for you to produce the 'source'. I'm waiting.
[/quote]
I shall not spoon-feed you. Do your own research. You claim to know everything. Also, when I give you names of scholars, you will just challenge their credentials.
**
[quote]
If Qur'anic verses are flimsy arguments, then sorry, I don't have anything more reliable to offer as proof.**
[/quote]
Goes to show your level of comprehension. There is a difference between evidence and argument. The evidence is from the Qur'an, so it cannot be wrong. But the argument is wrong when you say that I am following my forefathers and (mis)quote the ayat in support of your argument.
**
[quote]
once again.. tell me which ayat is misquoted. Bring solid proof as argument to the discussion table, your personal displeasure is hardly making any impression.**
[/quote]
Already dealt with above.
Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.
[quote]
I shall not spoon-feed you. Do your own research. You claim to know everything. Also, when I give you names of scholars, you will just challenge their credentials
[/quote]
Oh that's a convenient way of chickening out!
Stick to the debate sir. I have provided arguments trying to respond to the post. The question is why do we recite the kalima as it's popular today with most sects. What's the source? Where did it originate? Does it have roots in the Qur'an? And if yes, why do we add the second portion to it.
I'll disregard the rest of your posts as you appear to be arguing for the sake of it. Should you wish to disagree with my point of view, please feel free to present your argument with cogent proofs, not heresay.
I believe in the Qur'an as I'm sure you do too. If your source for the Kalima is outside of that, please do share it with us should you wish to discuss.
[quote]
Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad:
Oh that's a convenient way of chickening out! Stick to the debate sir. I have provided arguments trying to respond to the post.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; salaams to all
My apologize for not attending to this very important thread, which tries to deny Islamic teachings . I was hoping I will attend to it after Ramadan ( I refrain from discussing in this month) but I guess, some people are too blind to realize their follies and need to be exposed even in the blessed month as being blessed with foolishness.
For those who are blind and try to deny established norms….
Read!
6: 111 Even if We did send unto them angels and the dead did speak unto them and We gathered together all things before their very eyes** they are not the ones to believe unless it is in Allah's Plan: ** but most of them ignore (the truth).
6: 112 Likewise did We make ** for every Messenger an enemy evil ones among men and Jinns inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception.
[/quote]
If thy Lord had so planned they would not have done it: ** so leave them and their inventions alone. **
The above verses sums up why some individuals will NEVER get it, even after 1422 years of memorizing the shahadah by every generation of Muslims from the time the final prophet of Islam came into being they are people who will try to deny them. ** It is very disappointing but than again, they are needed in order for Muslims to understand Islam. **
The Shahadah is a declaration of faith. ** A person must recite the shahadah to convert to Islam. The shahadah in Islam is:: "I testify that there is no god but Allah and I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah." **
According to a famous saying of the Prophet Islam consists of five pillars which are as follows: affirmation of the faith (shahadah), ** that is, witnessing that La ilaha illa'Llah (There is no divinity but Allah) and Muhammadun rasul Allah (Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah); ** the five daily prayers (al-salat) which Muslims perform facing Makkah; fasting (al-sawm) from dawn to sunset during the month of Ramadan; making the pilgrimage to Makkah (al-hajj) at least once in a lifetime if one's financial and physical conditions permit it; and paying a 2 1/2% tax (al-zakat) on one's capital which is used for the needs of the community.
Hence anyone who denies this is denying Islam.
[quote]
The question is why do we recite the kalima as it's popular today with most sects. What's the source?
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; The Kalima that Muslims recite was taught by the Prophets and recited by all prophets and their followers according to the titles that those prophets were given by Allah (swt)
In short a person who submits to Allah (swt) must bear testimony of his faith . His faith is firstly to bear testimony that there is no god but Allah and secondly to bear testimony that he /she is following such and such prophet.
All testimony that established the faith in Allah (swt) has two parts , the two testimonies are (that is in the case of the final Prophet (pbuh) , "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger"). The wording for both testimonies and their usage are found in the Qur’an
The first part of what a believer has to testify is
2: 163 And your Allah is one Allah; ** there is no god but He ** Most Gracious Most Merciful.
Transliteration
Wa ila_hukum ila_huw wa_hid(un), ** la_ ila_ha illa_ ** huwar rahma_nur rahim(u).
11:14 "If then they (your false gods) answer not your (call) know ye that this Revelation is sent down (replete) with the knowledge of Allah and that ** there is no god but He! ** Will ye even then submit (to Islam)?"
Transliteration
Fa illam yastajibu_ lakum fa'lamu_ annama_ unzila bi 'ilmilla_hi wa alla_ ila_ha illa_ huw(a), fahal antum muslimu_n(a).
3: 18 There is no god but He: that is the witness of Allah His angels and those endued with knowledge standing firm on justice. There is no god but He the Exalted in Power the Wise.
Transliteration
Syahidalla_hu annahu_ la_ ila_ha illa_ huw(a), wal mala_'ikatu wa ulul 'ilmi qa_'imam bil qist(i), ** la_ ila_ha illa_** huwal'azizul hakim(u).
The second part of his testimony that a MUSLIM MUST accept and UTTER is:
47: 2 But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness and ** believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad-** for it is the Truth from their Lord He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.
48:29 ** Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah; ** and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer) seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Torah; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade then makes it strong; it then becomes thick and it stands on its own stem (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result it fills the Unbelievers with rage at him. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds Forgiveness and a great Reward.
Transliteration
** Muham madur rasu_lul la_h ** wal lazina maahu_ asyid da_u alal kuf fa_ri ruhama_u bainahum tara_hum ruk kaan suj jaday yabtagu_na fadlam minal la_hi wa ridwa_na_ sima_hum fi wuju_hihim min atsaris suju_d za_lika matsaluhum fit taura_ti wa matsaluhum fi injil jkazarin akhraja satahu_ fa a_zarahu_ fastaglaza fastawa_ ala_ su_qihi yujibuz zur ra_a liyagiza_ bihimul kuf fa_r waadal la_hul lazina a_manu_ wa amilush sa_liha_ti minhum magfirataw wa
ajran azima_
Thus the combination of both testimonies confirms the individuals faith in Allah and his chosen prophet.
This testimony has been further repeated at every call of prayer from the beginning it had been established .
Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 740 Narrated by Abu Mahdhurah
The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) taught him Adhan like this: Allah is the Greatest, Allah is the Greatest; I testify that there is no god but Allah, I testify that there is no god but Allah; I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and it should be again repeated: I testify that there is no god but Allah, I testify that there is no god but Allah; I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. Come to the prayer (twice). Come to the Prayer(twice). Ishaq added: Allah is the greatest, Allah is the Greatest; there is no god but Allah.
[quote]
Where did it originate? Does it have roots in the Qur'an? And if yes, why do we add the second portion to it.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; Bearing testimony is the foundation of faith in Allah, hence every prophet that Allah (swt) establish had their unique wordings to establish that testimony fro their followers
Their respective kalima of the earlier prophets can be found in the tafsirs and duas and not compiled in one particular book
Some of which are :-
La ila-ha ill-Allahu Adamu Safii-ullah
La ila-ha ill-Allahu Nuhun Najii-ullah
La ila-ha ill-Allahu Ibrahimu haliil lulah
La ila-ha ill-Allahu Ismaelu dhabi –hullah
La ila-ha ill-Allahu Musa kaliim-ullah
La ilah ha ill-Allahu Dawudu Haliifatu-llah
La ilah ha ill-Allahu Eesa roohu-llah
In the case of Prophet Mohammed the Qur’an testifies that even the hypocrites had tried to deceive others by uttering such testimonies
Read
63: 1 When the Hypocrites come to thee they say "We bear witness that thou art indeed the Apostle of Allah." ** Yea Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His Apostle ** and Allah beareth witness that the Hypocrites are indeed liars.
Iza_ ja_akal muna_fiqu_na qa_lu_ nashadu in naka ** larasu_lul la_h ** wal la_hu yalamu in naka larasu_luh wal la_hu yas hadu in nal muna_fiqina taka_zibu_n
Hence the testimony uttered by Muslims is what had been taught by Allah (swt) to all his chosen prophets and conveyed from the beginning by memory of each and every follower of that prophet in addition, there are numerous hadiths and Biographies of Companions that establish this fact.
For instance , read the Biographies of :-
Musab ibn Umayr
Rumaysa bint Milhan
Talhah ibn Ubaydullah
Read their Biographies, to find out how they embraced Islam and what are words they had uttered .
[quote]
If your source for the Kalima is outside of that, please do share it with us should you wish to discuss.
[/quote]
Ibrahim says; this is utter foolishness, the source for Islam is what is revealed in the Qur’an and what the prophet (pbuh) put into practice anyone who denies the teachings of the prophet (pbuh) is denying the prophet (pbuh) and in one sense denying Allah (swt) , since it was Allah (swt) who appointed him as a guide for mankind.
Read
4: 80 ** He who obeys the Apostle obeys Allah:** but if any turn away We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds)
81 They have "Obedience" on their lips; but when they leave thee a section of them meditate all night on things very different from what thou tellest them but ** Allah records their nightly (plots): so keep clear of them and put thy trust in Allah; and enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. **
Allah (swt) knows best.
Was salaam
Ibrahim
** Understanding is forever unattainable but it is the only quest worthy of serious attention. **
Jazak Allah khair, brother Ibrahim.
A man who wants evidence on the source of the shahada is just wasting time. The thread was started by an ahmadi and PA started debating on it. I remeber reading somewhere that the blunder that the Jews made was that they started asking questions about everything. Some people in our Ummah have also started asking questions that show ignorance. Unfortunately, there is arrogance attached also, which makes it difficult for them to understand.
Wassalam
Rabbeshrah lee sadree; wa yassirlee amree; yafqahoo qaulee.