This topic has been going on for sometime and
although I myself did not participate in it but I read it with alot of interest. Yesterday we have having a bing rally in Hong Kong (Kowloon Mosque) where Imam Maki from Saudi Arabia came to Hong Kong to address us
on Khatme Nabuwaat and about 5000 people turn up for it.
Message of Someone else:
I believe you are not too happy with my small
posting since I was praising Mr Niaz for his hard work and time and nobody did for you so I’m not going to post again but my last time.
I’m not well educated and my religious knowledge is very low so I’m not being able
to engage in your debate but then I’m somehow
supporting this nobel work of Khatme Nabuwaat Movement financially so I believe I will have face infront of God Almighty and can count
myself among the aware muslim.
Finally, an advice to you and all brothers
and sisters that please visit the below
site as to learn the correct and complete
knowledge about Qadiani/Ahmadi.
www.irshad/idara/qadiani/reverts/balogun.htm
www.irshad/idara/qadiani/suttar/suttar.htm
May God Almighty protect us from all sort
of evil and idolators.
Ameen.
The sites you have mentiones and others just show a one sided view, and are made by the maulvis to spread hatred against Ahmadis. They associate wrong beliefs to the jama’at-e-ahmadiyya.
If anyone wants true and correct information abut the ahmadiyya community, please visit:
What ever one says or what ever those sites portray, its clear abvious that Ahmadies are not Muslims. They are using the name of Islam to discredit Muslims. They have been declared non-muslims many times, and have been proved wrong of their allegations by many scholars of Islam. They should call their creed with some other name, and not dishonor the name of Islam.
PS: Can you compare Muslim thinking aptitude with the westerns? I think later have more intellectual and analystic abilities than present day Muslims, yet they still deny Mohammad(sa) as a Prophet, Islam being superior than their faith and so on.
So is true at the advent of Islam. All the scholars and learned ones opposed Him(sa) and declared Him with derogatory titles like a terrible Magician, a con performer etc etc.
Moral of the story is Human’s declaration about other faiths carry no weight.
The Book is the measuring scale. Gauge it if you can.
[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited November 10, 2000).]
Watcher, I avoid to go into such discussions, the reason being, they will end up in bashing and nothing else. If you are interested in a rational way of discussion, open your Book and be my guest.
Above I just answered to your statement “ …and have been proved wrong of their allegations by many scholars of Islam…”
Being a scholar doesn’t carry any weight, for religion it’s all taqwa that counts.
Ahmadies “CLAME” they are Muslims. When I said proved wrong by scholars, I meant, proved wrong by them, in the LIGHT OF QURAN AND SUNNAH. They proved them wrong in the light of QURAN and SUNNAH, if you are a MUSLIM, you have to go by the QURAN and SUNNAH. Do you get the point Zalim?
PS: If discussion is between me and you, I don’t think bashing will occure. Its another thing, if you consider “written” material with references and proofs to be called bashing.
When you present everything with proofs and with facts, I do not think that is called bashing. The ones being bashed may use that word to escape the truth.
You know We(or anyone else for that matter)should not judge or call people kafir, non-muslim ect. because only Allah can judge or stamp a name on someone and frankly I think let Allah judge Ahmadies NOT me you or anyone!
Watcher,
Again you are trying to streotype Ahmadies as people ruining Islam and trying to break it!
OUR LORD! WE HAVE INDEED HEARD THE VOICE OF A CRIER(MESSENGER)CALLING TO THE FAITH: "BELIVE IN YOUR LORD" SO WE BELIVED. OUR LORD! FORGIVE US THEN OUR SINS, AND REMOVE FROM US OUR EVIL DEEDS, AND CAUSE US DIE ALONG WITH THE VIRTUOUS
Zalim, now I am going away for now. When I return we will do this.
Why don’t you work on proving that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a prophet?
Quran says, MOhammad is the last messenger. There is one point where you are denying the word of Allah.
Shah Jahan, Allah judges other people, true. But, when someone denies the word of Allah(quran)how do you declare him/her Muslim? Either you say that Mirza Ghulam ahmad was a Prophet and disagree with Quran or either you say he was not a prophet and up-hold the word of Allah. Which one would it be, agree with quran or disagree with quran?
Just because, I posted stuff on shiaism, doesn’t mean you DISAGREE with me on every subject and try to degrade what I post. Thats is very bad my friend. That is one reason, we have slipt between us. Wake up already. Take care, take it easy.
Watcher, for the time sake forget about the Ahmadis. Consider they dont exist at all.
Now lets see how balanced Muslims are in their beliefs.
For your assignment, please pull out the meaning of “Khatam” as the LAST in line and time, from QURAN only. (We will talk about Ahadith later.)
Please also show any verse, which strengthen or supports the meaning of this verse.
Prove from Quran that no prophets can come after Mohammad.
Quote at least one verse aside the one you quoted above, so that the meaning can be elaborated.
I think we should take one step at a time…
PS: There is not a single verse in the whole Quran, which is left unsupported or has no parallel verse. You know better than me that each subject is revised several times in Quran,
Indeed it is “ ﻪﻴﻓ ﺐﻳﺭﻻﺐﺘﻜﻟﺍﻚﻟﺫ”.
Please shed some light in the same context.
[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited November 12, 2000).]
Watcher(he's gone right?),
You are a muslim NOT because you think Mohammed is the last. You are muslim coz you submit to Allah!
Hazrat Ibraheem was also a muslim(in Quran)not because he Knew that Mohammed was right but because he belived in one god and prayed to him only!
Let us look at Ahmadies good points!
1. they pray namaz!
2. have great knowledge of Quran
3. Refrain from anything bad
4. Peace on earth(and they mean it)
5. Want to be called muslims!
Let us look at the wrong side!
1. they do not think Mohammed is last!
Now it is for you to decide 5 or 1! look at the 1 or look at the 5!
OUR LORD! WE HAVE INDEED HEARD THE VOICE OF A CRIER(MESSENGER)CALLING TO THE FAITH: "BELIVE IN YOUR LORD" SO WE BELIVED. OUR LORD! FORGIVE US THEN OUR SINS, AND REMOVE FROM US OUR EVIL DEEDS, AND CAUSE US DIE ALONG WITH THE VIRTUOUS
Ahmadies are kafir, period......shah jahan....allah said who ever submits to Mohammad he has submitted to me...even if ibrahim or anyother prophet was here..he MUST have to submit to Mohammad and follow his teachings...other wise he or she is not muslim...
Jews and christians believe in ibrahim..they are not muslim...they believe in Allah(God)they are not Muslim until you obey allah and his last messenger Mohammad.
First you were...debating as shia with someone else..now you are debating us AHmadi? WHat you somekinda hindu or something????????
If you are shia..do you consider Mohmmad to be the last messenger????? idiot!
go read 2nd kalima...you will find your answer there! laterzzzzzzzzz
yOU become a muslim wehn you believe truly in the KALIMA meaning submitting to Allah and taking Mohammed to be his last prophet......(*keyword being Mohammed in regard to your "submitting to Allah ONLY")
Yesterday is history,
Tommorow is a mystery,
Today is a gift,
That's why we call it PRESENT!
I think I am debating with Watcher over here. If some wants to contribute relevantly, please feel free. Otherwise I don’t think it’s appropriate to just raise slogans out of hatred.
This debate is not pertinent to Ahmadis or their beliefs or the fatwas against them.
To recollect, I have asked to testify what Muslims believes in.
Q. By the way chaukedar jee kya Allah nay aap ko zameen pay darogha bana ker bhaija hai? (read sura al-ghashia)
Lastly, as onaizah, dude and chaukedar directed towards the point that the Kalima, “ La-illaha ilalla muhammed-dur-rasoolillah” refers to the finality of Prophethood.
Q. If I may ask a question over here to please point out which word in the kalima offer such meaning?
If one look with a keen eye it would not be out of place to say that the word LAST is deliberately inserted in the text to demonstrate ones own interpretation and is not part of the kalima which our beloved Holy Prophet(sa) use to recite.
Please shed some light on this point also. And be relevant and precise while replying.
Thankyou Shah Jahan, Dude, Onaizah, Chaukedaar and the rest.
[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited November 13, 2000).]
you need to learn to speak out of one side of your mouth. It's fine if you want to have a tolerant attitude where Ahmedis are concerned, but why didn't you show the same attitude in the Sunni/Shia discussions?
At least Zalim is consistent in his beliefs. Which I don't share, but that's life.
I have a question for you, just out of curiousity. I know you would say that most of the Hadiths which attest to the fact that Mohammed (SAW) was the last prophet would be considered erroneous by you.
My question is. Do you consider the last sermon of the Holy Prophet false too ?
By the last sermon i mean the one he gave in his first/last Hajj.
I am fortunate enought to understand Arabic, and yes you are right, no where in the FIRST kalima is it stated that Mohammed (SAW) is the last prophet.
Na Hota mein, Tu Kya Hota
[This message has been edited by Wadi (edited November 13, 2000).]