“The US government must take every measure in its power to have all levels of government in Pakistan eliminate the laws and ordinances that have become the tools to facilitate and institutionalize the persecution of Ahmadi Muslims” and have been used against other minorities, he said.
Yes, the laws that discriminate people on the basis of religion should be repealed. But is the intolerance resulting in such massacre, and declaration of Qadiani being non-Muslims somehow related?
I question this logic.
According to Pakistani law, there is no kind of discrimination against shia people. And yet thousands of shias have been killed in Pakistan all around the country. Actually there was a time in Karachi when people used to wake up everyday to do a newspaper-“count” of number of shias dead in the city.
Killing of minorities is directly related to intolerance in the form of extremist militants. Whether laws are made or repealed, such killings will continue to happen, unless intolerant militancy is wiped out of the country.
Re: Qadianis use Lahore massacre as excuse against 2nd amendment
If Ahmadis are not muslims then why are they allowed to do hajj and they are called muslims in every country except for Pakistan. I don't think a shia will go to prison for saying salaam or giving another muslim eid greetings etc.
This amendment does not have a place in a democratic country.
Please see the point of the thread first before posting. And point is that repealing 2nd amendment does not help in reduction of violence against minorities. So what Qadianis want to get, using this incident as excuse, is wrong.
Re: Qadianis use Lahore massacre as excuse against 2nd amendment
^ I agree with you khoji, I have said the exact same thing before. Existence of this law is not resulting in this kind of violence against Ahmadis, whether such law is in place or not residents know who is Ahmadi and who is not, what business is run by Ahmadi and what is not, which mosque belongs to Ahmadi and which does not.
The need of the hour is not really to remove this law, rather eliminating extremism from the society.
Re: Qadianis use Lahore massacre as excuse against 2nd amendment
1) all laws/parts of the constitution that discriminate against Ahmadis or any minority for that matter must be removed.
2) is their call to the US govt embarrassing for us? yes. but we put ourselves in this position. stop discriminating/persecuting them and they won't be able to complain to other govts and embarrass us.
btw, khoji, can I ask why you keep calling them Qadianis? I have a very good friend who is Ahmadi and he says that they consider the term Qadiani to be derogatory just like Mirzai. so, why do you and others insist on using it? is Ahmadi more difficult to type than Qadiani?
Re: Qadianis use Lahore massacre as excuse against 2nd amendment
^ None of the above is related to the thread topic. Here I am not saying whether laws are good or bad. I am saying that laws have nothing to do with massacre against a community. And so Qadianis/Ahmadis are not right in using this massacre as an excuse to demand removal of that law.
No, sorry. I don't feel like getting into that discussion about Qadiani and Ahmadi. It will open a can of worms, and derail the thread.
The need of the hour is not really to remove this law, rather eliminating extremism from the society.
I agree. This law itself is not the root cause of extremism. And this law has absolutely nothing to do with this massacre. Such a tragedy can happen regardless of any law or lack of it.
^ I agree with you khoji, I have said the exact same thing before. Existence of this law is not resulting in this kind of violence against Ahmadis, whether such law is in place or not residents know who is Ahmadi and who is not, what business is run by Ahmadi and what is not, which mosque belongs to Ahmadi and which does not.
The need of the hour is not really to remove this law, rather eliminating extremism from the society.
Come on Captain and Khoji
you are saying try to eliminate the exterism from society ,how it happen if a law of country allow to all kind of peoples to help with this shamefull article you can put an ahmdi into jail for three year atleast to just saying Salam to another muslim. we have a lot of examples in our society that people just use this article againist ahmdis as a revenge, in universities, in federal, semi, private companies . how it is easy for you guys to just report a FIR in near police station that this ahmadi say salam to me GET him, he said Kalimae Taiba GET him. This law protecting your extermist and making them strong. let me tell you one thing one day InshaAllah come when u guys cried for your crimes against Islam and its teachings
you are saying try to eliminate the exterism from society ,how it happen if a law of country allow to all kind of peoples to help with this shamefull article you can put an ahmdi into jail for three year atleast to just saying Salam to another muslim. we have a lot of examples in our society that people just use this article againist ahmdis as a revenge, in universities, in federal, semi, private companies . how it is easy for you guys to just report a FIR in near police station that this ahmadi say salam to me GET him, he said Kalimae Taiba GET him. This law protecting your extermist and making them strong. let me tell you one thing one day InshaAllah come when u guys cried for your crimes against Islam and its teachings
If you re-read the original post, the discussion is not about whether this law is good or not, whether it should be repealed or not, thats a different topic. The topic here is, is the discriminatory law responsible for THIS PARTICULAR violence against Ahamdis? My view is that this law is not responsible for this violence, the reason behind this violence is extremism, plain and simple.
The very existence of this pathetic law proves that our society is extremist.
This "law" and others like it are used by extremists to get away with murder, literally.
Anyone who supports this law is complicit in the murder of Ahmedis, full stop.
Again, trying to make it easy for someone, the murder you are talking about is not this one. In this particular violence Ahamdis were attacked without any 'provokation', without any 'law breaking action' etc.
Re: Qadianis use Lahore massacre as excuse against 2nd amendment
JaanBaaz:
[quote]
For the monsters that attacked the Ahmedis in Lahore, the very act of Ahmedis talking or praying is "provocation".
[/quote]
I would go one step further. For such people even the EXISTENCE of Qadianis is provocative.
[quote]
I believe Hitler's goons said that laws requiring Jews to wear symbols of their identity for their own "protection". We know how that turned out.
[/quote]
Re: Qadianis use Lahore massacre as excuse against 2nd amendment
The Ahmadis are being killed because certain elements in the Sunni population regard them as being heretics and therefore "wajib ul qatl."
By drafting laws that officially declare Ahmadis non-Muslims; deny them the right to say salam, recite Quran, call their places of worship mosques, etc; and force people to sign declarations mocking Ahmadi beliefs in order to even get a passport, the Pakistani government legitimizes the same sort of logic that extremists use to declare Ahmadis "wajib ul qatl."
The second amendment is the constitutional basis for all of the draconian anti-Ahmadi laws.
Therefore, though the second amendment is not directly responsible for the terrorist attack in Lahore, it is a sign of government sanction for the ideologies that caused the Ahmadi masscare.
The idea that people can be attacked for "provocation" is by itself an indication that the society is deranged.
Nazi Hindu fanatics in Gujrat India killed Muslim women and children based on "provocation".
Can we say that we are any better?
For the monsters that attacked the Ahmedis in Lahore, the very act of Ahmedis talking or praying is "provocation".
Once you have established the idea that people can be killed legally for "blasphemy" or provocation, then anything goes.
I believe Hitler's goons said that laws requiring Jews to wear symbols of their identity for their own "protection". We know how that turned out.
Sorry I don't find any "logic" in your post here. If this particular law was responsible for this particular violence then the terrorist who was 'caught' wouldn't have been regarded "terrorist" in first place. There have been many other persecution incidents in past and I would hold law responsible for those acts. This particular act was terrorism not persecution, and I am not defending either one of those.
Re: Qadianis use Lahore massacre as excuse against 2nd amendment
janab:
[quote]
1. The Ahmadis are being killed because certain elements in the Sunni population regard them as being heretics and therefore "wajib ul qatl."
[/quote]
Those "certain elements" would kill anyone disagreeing with them regardless of any laws. For example, these elements kill shia people, even though no such law exist about shias.
Thus it's not the law which resulted in this massacre, rather it was existence of out-of-control militancy.
When a society makes the very existence of a group impossible, then it is not too far from exterminating the group altogether.
Well then remove those "impossible" laws. But even when you do that, the violence and massacre would still not stop. Because 2nd amendment is not the root cause of that massacre.
Hence Qadianis are wrong to equate this tragedy and that law.
Those "certain elements" would kill anyone disagreeing with them regardless of any laws. For example, these elements kill shia people, even though no such law exist about shias.
Thus it's not the law which resulted in this massacre, rather it was existence of out-of-control militancy.
So if they're going to kill anyways, the government might as well enact laws that legitimize the anti-Ahmadi prejudice too? By your logic, there was no reason for the US government to enact civil rights legislation either because "bigots will go on killing and oppressing black people regardless of whether there's a law or not."
The constitutional amendment **serves absolutely NO PURPOSE **other than to give official sanction the persecution and oppression of Pakistani Ahmadis. Repealing the laws will at least show that there is no official sanction for such draconian behavior.